2020 Formula Boinc Sprints

[Icecold]

Basically what I'm saying:



(or bunker, rather)

 

[VietOZ]

There's no chance you guys will upload 500k tasks all at once and take the whole thing down?

mine are already on their server.JUST waiting to click Update

 

[Orange Kid]

You've said you're running ODLK right? Have you noticed what's their delay time? we don't need script to grab works, just leave it running and it'll fill up in no time.

No, no it won't. Unless you think 20 tasks will last a 16 thread machine 10 days. Yes it was able to keep the machine busy, but build a reserve, I don't think so.

I have also noticed that the "in progress" is staying steady, so I don't think many more "bunkers" will be built.

 

[Orange Kid]

I really feel that this will be the last of FB unless they go with a run and gun sprint. Announce the sprint and go, no lead time. If it is late at night or what ever set an alarm. If one can be that dedicated to run with multiple machines, VM"s and such, starting time shouldn't be such a big deal.
Projects aren't going to put up with this type of behavior much longer.

 

[Icecold]

= any responsible admin of a small BOINC project when a bunch of people download all of the tasks a week ahead of time and don't upload them. Maybe if more people followed Bearnol's lead this wouldn't become such an issue.

 

[Icecold]

I really feel that this will be the last of FB unless they go with a run and gun sprint. Announce the sprint and go, no lead time. If it is late at night or what ever set an alarm. If one can be that dedicated to run with multiple machines, VM"s and such, starting time shouldn't be such a big deal.
Projects aren't going to put up with this type of behavior much longer.

The problem comes in, that no matter what lead time is given from the sprint announcement there are anti competitive teams that will do whatever it takes to win. The sprint hasn't even been announced but yet ODLK, a known small project with a known underpowered server, has no work because they're sitting on all of it. My understanding is there is no way for Formula BOINC to tell what tasks are downloaded ahead of time so the only feasible way to run the competition is based on what tasks were uploaded during the competition.

 

[Icecold]

 

[VietOZ]

No, no it won't. Unless you think 20 tasks will last a 16 thread machine 10 days. Yes it was able to keep the machine busy, but build a reserve, I don't think so.

I have also noticed that the "in progress" is staying steady, so I don't think many more "bunkers" will be built.

It won't because the server has no task at the moment. When it was "regular" .. try to set your cache at 0.01/0.01 and you'd still get shiet load of tasks

I just don't understand ... when y'all bunker then it's ok. But when we bunkered then it's cheating and blah blah blah...
Tell me, if y'all don't bunker .. would y'all have a chance at Thor?
Tell me, if y'all didn't bunker, would y'all have a chance at the Pent?
Tell me, if y'all didn't bunker, would y'all have any chance at PG?

Bunker has been a factor in comps. It's just how you do it and properly or not. I don't know why y'all complaining.
I've been speculated bunkered for almost 2 years .. may missed a couple of Sprints... but the point is why you guys are complaining now?

seriously, bunker is nothing new. It's just "are you willing to do it or not?" you think bunker is easy? try it for a few Sprints
I got to the point where i'd want to quit crunching all together, because of the time to manage was insane.

 

[Icecold]

It won't because the server has no task at the moment. When it was "regular" .. try to set your cache at 0.01/0.01 and you'd still get shiet load of tasks

I just don't understand ... when y'all bunker then it's ok. But when we bunkered then it's cheating and blah blah blah...
Tell me, if y'all don't bunker .. would y'all have a chance at Thor?
Tell me, if y'all didn't bunker, would y'all have a chance at the Pent?
Tell me, if y'all didn't bunker, would y'all have any chance at PG?

Bunker has been a factor in comps. It's just how you do it and properly or not. I don't know why y'all complaining.
I've been speculated bunkered for almost 2 years .. may missed a couple of Sprints... but the point is why you guys are complaining now?

seriously, bunker is nothing new. It's just "are you willing to do it or not?" you think bunker is easy? try it for a few Sprints
I got to the point where i'd want to quit crunching all together, because of the time to manage was insane.

It was the first time I've seen it done in a way that is knowingly wrecking a small project's underpowered server and denying normal participants of tasks before the sprint is even announced. Maybe it's happened a bunch before and I wasn't paying close attention, but this is clearly detrimental to the project and makes me wonder if I should even be complicit in being part of a competition that encourages this kind of stuff. For what it's worth - I had a laugh to myself that it would be super easy to grab all the ODLK or T Brada tasks a week ago but then I didn't do it because obviously that would be competing in bad faith and would be unethical towards the projects.

 

[Icecold]

 

[VietOZ]

I didn't do it because obviously that would be competing in bad faith and would be unethical towards the projects.

well, that's on you. If you did it, we're the ones who complaining right now. That's how life works brother

 

[Icecold]

well, that's on you. If you did it, we're the ones who complaining right now. That's how life works brother

Thanks! Honestly, this was a super fruitful discussion and I'm not even trolling when I say that. I'm glad to actually know definitively that XS(or at least VietOZ, but probably the rest as well) couldn't care less about the science, or the work being done, or the projects themselves and it's only about winning some silly competition so they can say "we're number 2! we're number 2!". I have an ethical issue with earning Gridcoin but I'm wondering if I should join just to stick it to XS?

 

[VietOZ]

just join the darkside my friend
we don't care what others "think" of us.

Like i've said. It's a learning experience. We're Xtreme ... we love learning new stuffs. #2 or #3 really doesn't matter as long as we're not #4
Lol, enough of trash talking... Seriously ... you've said it yourself. You're not representing for your team for what you've said.
I'm the same way, what I said is my own opinion.

 

[Icecold]

just join the darkside my friend
we don't care what others "think" of us.

Like i've said. It's a learning experience. We're Xtreme ... we love learning new stuffs. #2 or #3 really doesn't matter as long as we're not #4
Lol, enough of trash talking... Seriously ... you've said it yourself. You're not representing for your team for what you've said.
I'm the same way, what I said is my own opinion.

I appreciate the reply. This will be my last post tonight on it - and I think we had a really solid back and forth. I do genuinely 100% think it at least bears a PM from you guys to the project scientist at ODLK letting her know what's going on, what tasks will be completed when, etc. As it stands the tiny project is held totally in limbo, and I think that's absurd. This is people's work, their livelihood, etc. We all approach this as a competition and a game, but it probably isn't to the people running these projects. The project has no work available, she keeps posting to their message board about the science with no replies, and we're out here arguing about bunkering and stuff. I really think moving forward though there needs to be a little less gamesmanship here and we can all compete on a relatively fair level, but if not, you guys will chase me off like you have countless other people and this can be a competition of like 50 people comparing number of computers and e-peen.

I would respect you guys a lot more if you just release the damn ODLK bunkers and let them continue with their work, but that doesn't seem like it will happen.

 

[pututu]

Tell me, if y'all didn't bunker, would y'all have any chance at PG?

Can you bunker in PG?

Or maybe you meant bunkering for someone using weak account approach?

 

[Icecold]

I looked for a new meme but to be honest the Taffer one was the best. Posting it again here in case anybody missed it:

 

[Icecold]

LOL, this is such a shit show. I've been waiting since I posted ~20 minutes ago that I was done for the night to post a follow up that I've uploaded all my pending tasks and wouldn't contribute to bunkering on this project. I'm still sitting here waiting for the ~700 tasks to upload. My home internet is fine. It might take you guys a month just to upload the 500k tasks. Unreal.

 

[VietOZ]

Can you bunker in PG?

Really? are you really asking this ?

 

[VietOZ]

My home internet is fine. It might take you guys a month just to upload the 500k tasks. Unreal.

Well, don't trust whatever "Boinc Manager" is telling you. How about go and investigate a bit?
I have no problem uploading my 200k of tasks just now

 

[VietOZ]

I do genuinely 100% think it at least bears a PM from you guys to the project scientist at ODLK letting her know what's going on,

you're genius! I did PM Nat (my girl) lol ... but I was a little tipsy so my words was a bit over the line

regards https://boinc.progger.info/odlk/forum_thread.php?id=1&postid=6512#6512

There was a conversation going on there. If there was any violation there, please let us know before you lock the thread. It's not good for a project to just lock a thread when there was a conversation going on without warning. We're volunteers, not criminals. You can't shut us down as you like.
Sure, the conversation may sound sour. But sometime it's good to get it out ... as long as it doesn't violate any of the forum's rules. No need to close the thread. Let the volunteers voice their opinions. Whether it's competition or not, you should take their opinions and build your project to fit you and the volunteers. Instead of demanding and dictating what people can post.
So if you would, please re open that thread. I would like to see my fellow volunteers has the freedom to post their thoughts. I'd appreciated if you can understand

How about this, if you open that thread, i'll guarantee your 500k plus work units will return safe and sound.
However, if my volunteers can not voice the opinions, I can not guarantee that.

Sincere
OZ

 

[StefanR5R]

As far as I can tell from the server_stats records, the ODLK server's work generator stopped creating new workunits due to reaching a ceiling of global tasks in progress. This means that the ODLK project is currently down to near-zero production. They won't get anything done for the next days, due to Formula BOINC and a few careless¹ participants at FB.

At the very least, Formula BOINC needs to

• initiate sprints only at projects with their consent (given before the beginning of the season and, more importantly, given before each sprint),
• stop the team voting.

Edit, ideally, there would be an analysis before a sprint what rates of work requests and returns to expect, and if the project is sized for it.

--------
¹) to put it mildly. While the ODLK server deamons are still running, the project simply is out of service.

 

[VietOZ]

stop the team voting.

I couldn't agree more. We coulda rigged the damn thing at the beginning of the year if we knew we're getting accusations for it anyway. But thanks for the idea, we'll consider it next Sprint

 

[StefanR5R]

@VietOZ, have you been accused of rigging the team votes?
Are others rigging it?
Can others rig it?

To me, just that last item is already enough to make a judgement how sensible the team voting idea was.

 

[Icecold]

How about this, if you open that thread, i'll guarantee your 500k plus work units will return safe and sound.
However, if my volunteers can not voice the opinions, I can not guarantee that.

Holding WU's ransom to try to force the project scientist to reopen a message board thread? Really that's how far this has gone?

 

[Icecold]

For what it's worth - all it would have taken for me to look like the fool here is for them to release a small bunker. That's all I was asking, release enough tasks that the project can operate again. They could still destroy everybody else(if ODLK is even selected for the Sprint) with 500,000 tasks instead of 572,000. I released my 850 tasks but it wasn't enough to make a difference.