glenn1
Lifer
Unless the Vikings outbid them, although Minny would probably draft Bortles #2 instead. Then Cleveland would likely trade up with JAX and get ripped off by them.
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2014 NFL draft and offseason thread: your mock draft, team wish list, and more
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Unless the Vikings outbid them, although Minny would probably draft Bortles #2 instead. Then Cleveland would likely trade up with JAX and get ripped off by them.
smackababy
Lifer
I wonder if the Vikings are willing to take DeMarco Murray for 15 draft picks?
Seattle: Their biggest problem on defense is locking up Sherman and Thomas (Chancellor was gotten for a good 5 year deal last year) without killing their cap. On offense it is the same issue as Harvin is locked up at $11M but they need to fit in Wilson and Okung (who is making money but will make more). They need to build depth EVERYWHERE else for when the other positions are purged due to the cap. Lynch is not on this list as in a couple years Turbin and Michael will take up his role.
Offense Firm @ QB, RB, FB, LT, C, Slot and # 3 and # 4 WR.
Could Lose: Giacomini (RT--free agent), Rice (WR--cap), Miller (TE--cap), Tate (WR--free agent), Baldwin (WR-restricted free agent), Carpenter (T/G--cap).
Defense Firm @ Both Safeties, Both Corners, all 3 line backers, One DT and one DE.
Could Lose: Bennet (DE/DT--free agent), McDaniels (DT--free agent), Thurmond (CB--free agent), Bryant (DT--cap), Clemons (DE--cap), Browner (CB--free agent/suspended), McDonald (DT--free agent)
Kicker: Haushka (free agent)
I think Seattle will be cutting and/or reworking Rice, Bryant, Clemons, and maybe Miller. That is over $25M cut from the cap in 2014. Okung will likely be re-worked as his cap number is over 11M.
Free Agents: I think most of the defenders will be over-priced and snatched up by others. I think Bennet will be too expensive as will be Thurmond (but they have Lane and a rookie on IR to fill his shoes). I think they tender Baldwin with the $2.5M and let Tate walk unless he is under $5m/year--they need a tall receiver to compliment Harvin and Baldwin anyhow. Giac at RT is probably too expensive.
Backup Youth: Seattle has youth at RB (Turbin and Michael), TE (Wilson), and Baily and Bowie on the line. The defensive line is a question mark as a lot of youngsters were hurt. At CB they have Maxwell and Lane for another year on rookie deals with Simmon (6'2") rookie on IR. LB has another year with Wright, Irvin, Wagner, and Malcum Smith all on rookie contracts but the year AFTER will be a purge so they need to build depth here.
Biggest needs:
* Tall receiver,
* Offensive Tackle and Guard (trust me, their OL is pretty bad),
* DL and LB depth for the future,
* another TE for depth,
* if they lose Bennent and McDaniels and Bryant and Clemons (yes, they could lose half of their 7 good D line) they will need to shore up the Def Line. I am thinking they may look to fill this hole with Bennent/Avril deals to entice pass rushers who are looking to cash in down the road.
Offense Firm @ QB, RB, FB, LT, C, Slot and # 3 and # 4 WR.
Could Lose: Giacomini (RT--free agent), Rice (WR--cap), Miller (TE--cap), Tate (WR--free agent), Baldwin (WR-restricted free agent), Carpenter (T/G--cap).
Defense Firm @ Both Safeties, Both Corners, all 3 line backers, One DT and one DE.
Could Lose: Bennet (DE/DT--free agent), McDaniels (DT--free agent), Thurmond (CB--free agent), Bryant (DT--cap), Clemons (DE--cap), Browner (CB--free agent/suspended), McDonald (DT--free agent)
Kicker: Haushka (free agent)
I think Seattle will be cutting and/or reworking Rice, Bryant, Clemons, and maybe Miller. That is over $25M cut from the cap in 2014. Okung will likely be re-worked as his cap number is over 11M.
Free Agents: I think most of the defenders will be over-priced and snatched up by others. I think Bennet will be too expensive as will be Thurmond (but they have Lane and a rookie on IR to fill his shoes). I think they tender Baldwin with the $2.5M and let Tate walk unless he is under $5m/year--they need a tall receiver to compliment Harvin and Baldwin anyhow. Giac at RT is probably too expensive.
Backup Youth: Seattle has youth at RB (Turbin and Michael), TE (Wilson), and Baily and Bowie on the line. The defensive line is a question mark as a lot of youngsters were hurt. At CB they have Maxwell and Lane for another year on rookie deals with Simmon (6'2") rookie on IR. LB has another year with Wright, Irvin, Wagner, and Malcum Smith all on rookie contracts but the year AFTER will be a purge so they need to build depth here.
Biggest needs:
* Tall receiver,
* Offensive Tackle and Guard (trust me, their OL is pretty bad),
* DL and LB depth for the future,
* another TE for depth,
* if they lose Bennent and McDaniels and Bryant and Clemons (yes, they could lose half of their 7 good D line) they will need to shore up the Def Line. I am thinking they may look to fill this hole with Bennent/Avril deals to entice pass rushers who are looking to cash in down the road.
smackababy
Lifer
^they are reporting Rice is likely to be cut to make room.
glenn1
Lifer
Interesting toy/time killer - draft simulator lets you play GM for selected team with the AI drafting for other teams taking their needs into account.
http://fanspeak.com/ontheclock/
http://fanspeak.com/ontheclock/
Fern
Elite Member
No, it makes sense.
The system is designed to create parity. So, the worse teams get to pick first. Every team gets 1 pick (unless they obtained an additional pick from another team) starting with the team with the worst record on down to the Super Bowl winner who picks last.
They repeat 7 times.
Any players not drafted can be invited by any/all teams to come to 'try-outs'.
The point is to spread the talent around so rich teams from big media markets don't just scoop up all the good players and dominated year-in and year-out.
"Selling players" can happen, but it's hella complicated.
Fern
Fern
Elite Member
IMO the Vikings need to stop thinking a new QB is their answer. They could have Tom Brady or Payton it wouldn't matter. No QB throws good passes from his back or running for his life every play.
They need blockers. They need a defense. Too many times the Viking QB would score to put them ahead in the last minute or two, but the defense gave up the touchdown ASAP.
Fern
Welp Cassel is gone. Not sure what he is expecting to get elsewhere, it's not like he did a lot to bump up his stock in the league, at least not from what I saw. He was an ok back-up, but that's about it.
KT
KT
Krazy4Real
Lifer
Same
smackababy
Lifer
And that is probably what he will end up being. A cheap, veteran backup to a big name QB. Look at what happened in Chicago. McCown is old, experienced, and cheap. He pretty much kept the Bears in contention in the terrible NFC North. Teams don't want to suffer what happened to Indy in the season Manning was out.
I think the Vikings should just stick with Freeman. He is incredibly young and talented enough. They should focus elsewhere.
Imported
Lifer
glenn1
Lifer
Here's another mock draft simulator which allows you to trade picks; does require registration, however. Have fun!
www.first-pick.com
www.first-pick.com
From the Super Bowl thread:
I gave some of my thoughts above.
I think John and Pete have done a great job, obviously. They really have put themselves into a position of drafting for future need, not immediate need. It is tough to win a Super Bowl if you are drafting, and banking on, rookies coming in and filling holes for all 16 games.
The next couple years are very interesting because the a huge percentage of contributors are young players. Seattle will be drafting more to fill voids in players they decide NOT to keep. So who will that be?
Free agents:
2013: Tate (WR), Bennett (DT/DE), Walter Thurmond (Nickel CB), Giacomini (RT)
2014: Earl Thomas (S), Sherman (CB), Maxwell (CB), Baldwin (WR), Malcom Smith (LB), KJ Wright (LB), Carpenter (G)
2015: Wilson (QB), Wagner (Mike LB), Turbin (RB), Sweezy (G), Kearse (WR), Bruce Irvin (Sam LB), Lane (CB)
Chancellor is locked up and Okung is still on his rookie contract on the old pay scale but that contract needs to be reworked and they need to decide if they stay with him--he has had a number of injuries but he has a lot of skill.
For this draft
Offence: No need to draft a QB or RB as Turbin and Michael (Rookie, 2016 free agent) both look good and will fill the void when Beast Mode is phased out in 2015 or 2016 (Lynch is 28 next year). FB is fine with young talent. TE is a trouble spot as McCoy had an Achilles injury and is a free agent and Zach Miller can is making $7M ($2M dead money) and Seattle can save $5M by cutting him. He is unlikely to get $5M elsewhere so he will likely restructure IMO. He is a good blocker and receiver but Seattle does not get to use him as he blocks so often. Both Guard positions are bad. Bowie and Bailey (rookies) show promise to maybe fill one position or, minimally, add depth. McQuistin is gone. Even if Bailey and Bowie can fill the voids at G/T Seattle is in dire need of OL depth. Baldwin will be Tendered but Seattle needs to continue adding WR Depth as every year they have free agents: 2014 (Tate; Rice probably gone), 2015: Baldwin, 2016: Kearse.
Offensive Summary: Immediate needs are OL and Tight End; need to continue adding OL and WR depth.
Special Teams. Tate is their punt returner and had 2nd highest average in the league. Hauschka is a free agent but I assume they resign him or find a suitable replacement. Baldwin would be serviceable on returns.
Defense. There are no immediate holes on this unit, even if Bennett leaves (who I really like and hope they can keep). They actually have a bit of depth on the DL in young players who rode the bench or were on IR (IR: DE-Scruggs, DT-Williams; Bench: DT-Hill, DE-Mayowa). They also have Bruce Irvin who could move back to LEO when Clemons and Avril leave (1 year left on his contract). Their biggest problem is they will be losing ALL of their Linebackers over the next two years: Smith and Wright in 2014, Wagner and Bruce Irvin in 2015. So building LB depth now is essential as they cannot keep all 4. I assume they will get Earl Thomas his long term contract so they have to figure out CB. Tharold Simon (Rookie on IR) is 6'3" 200lb and they have Lane another year. So they need at least 1 CB this year to ensure they have enough depth when Maxwell and/or Sherman leave.
Defensive Summary: They need young LB depth and CB depth to plan for the impending free agents in 2015 and 2016.
Prime Needs: OL, TE, WR.
Secondary Needs: LB, CB, DL.
John and Pete usually whiff on the 1st round, do great in later rounds and un-drafted players, and make good free agent pick ups of low key players who fit their team chemistry and style well so I don't think we can predict when they will pick these need positions or which ones they will look to free agency to fill. I think first and foremost they will try to keep the core in tact. I expect them to cut some bigger contracts of players who are not able to perform to those dollars (Rice, Clemons?) and also other players who they can move laterally in performance but for far fewer dollars (Miller? Bryant?).
I expect them to start making long term deals with the core players to gain a cap advantage. The reality is they could make some players play their 4th season on their rookie deal and then Franchise them. Some of this may play into the contracts, e.g. Russell Wilson. I expect them to rip up his rookie deal after next season. But this may get Seattle a savings--Seattle could have Russell at $1M for a 4th year. So why give him $20M in 2015? I am sure his agent knows they can get the cheap 4th year AND Franchise him in 2016. Seattle won't do that but I expect that to be a factor in how his contract works out.
Remember, this isn't a Flacco situation. The Ravens failed to extend Flacco. The problem is Flacco performed, won a Super Bowl, and was a free agent. Baltimore had NO leverage. Instead of extending him on favorable cap terms the Ravens used the last year of his contract as a Show Me year. Either Flacco could get a ring or they were going to dump him (or get a far more favorable contract). It backfired. Seattle would be in the same position as Wilson has proven to be a young QB you could build a franchise around and win a Super Bowl.
Seattle is a very young team. On their active roster there are only 6 players 30 or older. They have 32 players 26 or younger and 34 players have 4 years or less experience. Pete and John are finding talent every year. This year was a problem as it was hard for any youth to make the team, so that is a problem they have to address. It doesn't hurt that Pete Carroll is the #1 coach NFL players want to play for. There is a reason Avril and Bennett took favorable deals to come to Seattle. I expect to see 1 or 2 players in free agency this year take "hired gun" contracts to a) have a chance to win a Super Bowl and b) know they are surrounded by other talent so they can prove themselves, like Bennett and Avril, to earn a bigger contract.
Seattle is, imo, in the best position for 2014 of the top tier teams, especially now that Harvin is healthy. San Francisco is getting older at key positions (e.g. Justin Smith, Frank Gore), Boldin is a free agent, and Bowman has a horrible injury. (I am still sick he got hurt--Seattle fans owe that due a HUGE standing ovation when he comes back to the CLink). Denver is older, has cap issues, and has too many holes to fill. New Orleans, Carolina, and Green Bay will be interesting NFC teams to watch. In the AFC KC may be interesting (Reid and Smith, who I like, I don't think are game changers without a great cast though), the Pats, and Indy. Although the horrible trade for Richardson has me seriously wondering how good the personnel decisions are there. I like Luck a lot (even stated in another thread I thought if he was in Seattle the last 2 years he could have gone to the SB, too) but I fear he may be in the Manning/Marino situation where the GM's fail to get a complete team but they are too good to lose to get better draft positioning, sticking them forever in the "good team but not great." HOPEFULLY they are smart and build a strong defense and OLine first. Luck will be great--when the D and Line are good enough to go to the SB Luck can do what Wilson did. What Luck does NOT need is for them to surround him with elite WR/TE and RB while the defense and line wallow in mediocrity.
I gave some of my thoughts above.
I think John and Pete have done a great job, obviously. They really have put themselves into a position of drafting for future need, not immediate need. It is tough to win a Super Bowl if you are drafting, and banking on, rookies coming in and filling holes for all 16 games.
The next couple years are very interesting because the a huge percentage of contributors are young players. Seattle will be drafting more to fill voids in players they decide NOT to keep. So who will that be?
Free agents:
2013: Tate (WR), Bennett (DT/DE), Walter Thurmond (Nickel CB), Giacomini (RT)
2014: Earl Thomas (S), Sherman (CB), Maxwell (CB), Baldwin (WR), Malcom Smith (LB), KJ Wright (LB), Carpenter (G)
2015: Wilson (QB), Wagner (Mike LB), Turbin (RB), Sweezy (G), Kearse (WR), Bruce Irvin (Sam LB), Lane (CB)
Chancellor is locked up and Okung is still on his rookie contract on the old pay scale but that contract needs to be reworked and they need to decide if they stay with him--he has had a number of injuries but he has a lot of skill.
For this draft
Offence: No need to draft a QB or RB as Turbin and Michael (Rookie, 2016 free agent) both look good and will fill the void when Beast Mode is phased out in 2015 or 2016 (Lynch is 28 next year). FB is fine with young talent. TE is a trouble spot as McCoy had an Achilles injury and is a free agent and Zach Miller can is making $7M ($2M dead money) and Seattle can save $5M by cutting him. He is unlikely to get $5M elsewhere so he will likely restructure IMO. He is a good blocker and receiver but Seattle does not get to use him as he blocks so often. Both Guard positions are bad. Bowie and Bailey (rookies) show promise to maybe fill one position or, minimally, add depth. McQuistin is gone. Even if Bailey and Bowie can fill the voids at G/T Seattle is in dire need of OL depth. Baldwin will be Tendered but Seattle needs to continue adding WR Depth as every year they have free agents: 2014 (Tate; Rice probably gone), 2015: Baldwin, 2016: Kearse.
Offensive Summary: Immediate needs are OL and Tight End; need to continue adding OL and WR depth.
Special Teams. Tate is their punt returner and had 2nd highest average in the league. Hauschka is a free agent but I assume they resign him or find a suitable replacement. Baldwin would be serviceable on returns.
Defense. There are no immediate holes on this unit, even if Bennett leaves (who I really like and hope they can keep). They actually have a bit of depth on the DL in young players who rode the bench or were on IR (IR: DE-Scruggs, DT-Williams; Bench: DT-Hill, DE-Mayowa). They also have Bruce Irvin who could move back to LEO when Clemons and Avril leave (1 year left on his contract). Their biggest problem is they will be losing ALL of their Linebackers over the next two years: Smith and Wright in 2014, Wagner and Bruce Irvin in 2015. So building LB depth now is essential as they cannot keep all 4. I assume they will get Earl Thomas his long term contract so they have to figure out CB. Tharold Simon (Rookie on IR) is 6'3" 200lb and they have Lane another year. So they need at least 1 CB this year to ensure they have enough depth when Maxwell and/or Sherman leave.
Defensive Summary: They need young LB depth and CB depth to plan for the impending free agents in 2015 and 2016.
Prime Needs: OL, TE, WR.
Secondary Needs: LB, CB, DL.
John and Pete usually whiff on the 1st round, do great in later rounds and un-drafted players, and make good free agent pick ups of low key players who fit their team chemistry and style well so I don't think we can predict when they will pick these need positions or which ones they will look to free agency to fill. I think first and foremost they will try to keep the core in tact. I expect them to cut some bigger contracts of players who are not able to perform to those dollars (Rice, Clemons?) and also other players who they can move laterally in performance but for far fewer dollars (Miller? Bryant?).
I expect them to start making long term deals with the core players to gain a cap advantage. The reality is they could make some players play their 4th season on their rookie deal and then Franchise them. Some of this may play into the contracts, e.g. Russell Wilson. I expect them to rip up his rookie deal after next season. But this may get Seattle a savings--Seattle could have Russell at $1M for a 4th year. So why give him $20M in 2015? I am sure his agent knows they can get the cheap 4th year AND Franchise him in 2016. Seattle won't do that but I expect that to be a factor in how his contract works out.
Remember, this isn't a Flacco situation. The Ravens failed to extend Flacco. The problem is Flacco performed, won a Super Bowl, and was a free agent. Baltimore had NO leverage. Instead of extending him on favorable cap terms the Ravens used the last year of his contract as a Show Me year. Either Flacco could get a ring or they were going to dump him (or get a far more favorable contract). It backfired. Seattle would be in the same position as Wilson has proven to be a young QB you could build a franchise around and win a Super Bowl.
Seattle is a very young team. On their active roster there are only 6 players 30 or older. They have 32 players 26 or younger and 34 players have 4 years or less experience. Pete and John are finding talent every year. This year was a problem as it was hard for any youth to make the team, so that is a problem they have to address. It doesn't hurt that Pete Carroll is the #1 coach NFL players want to play for. There is a reason Avril and Bennett took favorable deals to come to Seattle. I expect to see 1 or 2 players in free agency this year take "hired gun" contracts to a) have a chance to win a Super Bowl and b) know they are surrounded by other talent so they can prove themselves, like Bennett and Avril, to earn a bigger contract.
Seattle is, imo, in the best position for 2014 of the top tier teams, especially now that Harvin is healthy. San Francisco is getting older at key positions (e.g. Justin Smith, Frank Gore), Boldin is a free agent, and Bowman has a horrible injury. (I am still sick he got hurt--Seattle fans owe that due a HUGE standing ovation when he comes back to the CLink). Denver is older, has cap issues, and has too many holes to fill. New Orleans, Carolina, and Green Bay will be interesting NFC teams to watch. In the AFC KC may be interesting (Reid and Smith, who I like, I don't think are game changers without a great cast though), the Pats, and Indy. Although the horrible trade for Richardson has me seriously wondering how good the personnel decisions are there. I like Luck a lot (even stated in another thread I thought if he was in Seattle the last 2 years he could have gone to the SB, too) but I fear he may be in the Manning/Marino situation where the GM's fail to get a complete team but they are too good to lose to get better draft positioning, sticking them forever in the "good team but not great." HOPEFULLY they are smart and build a strong defense and OLine first. Luck will be great--when the D and Line are good enough to go to the SB Luck can do what Wilson did. What Luck does NOT need is for them to surround him with elite WR/TE and RB while the defense and line wallow in mediocrity.
Wow wtf I had not heard that they cleaned house like that. What a crazy organization.
KT
zinfamous
No Lifer
Maybe they would be willing to trade their 2 first round picks to Was for RG3 and RG2?
🙂
Don't get me wrong--There isn't going to be a better available QB than RG3 anytime soon and I'm plenty happy that he is there (meaning: RG3 is not the problem), but RG2 is a festering cancer that will continue to destroy whatever team his son plays for.
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Michael Bennett is likely gone. Good for him. He is 28 so this is his last major shot at a contract. Unlike some players who may have more earning potential being a key cog on a great team for years and years his best earning potential is to take the best contract now. I think Golden Tate is on the reverse side: receivers don’t always flourish under different systems. If he takes less to stay with Seattle he has a “safer” income long term. NFL contracts are not guaranteed and if he flopped elsewhere he could be 2 years and cut whereas if he signed a 4 year $4.5M/year with Seattle he would likely play out the life of the contract and be young enough to hit free agency a second time.
RE: Bennett and Chris Clemons. Last year everyone freaked out when Seattle only had KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner at LB. The draft cries were Seattle needed another LB. And yet Irvin and Malcom Smith stepped in at a high level and Seattle now has 4 very good young line backers going into their 2nd and 3rd seasons. Only Seattle knows who they have buried on their roster. That said I think it is likely Bennett gets a nice contract elsewhere and Clemons is forced to restructure/cut.
I expect Seattle to go for another “discount” pass rusher like Bennett and Cliff Avril last year—my guess would be a one year rental on Jared Allen as I expect the Vikes to cut him. Allen is productive but aging so I think going to Seattle, where there is line depth to keep him fresh and an opportunity to win immediately, is a good fit for him. I also think Irvin may get more time at the Leo spot Clemons plays as Seattle drafted Irvin for that specific role. This creates a slight problem as Bennett at nearly 280 would play DE on early downs but then move inside in the NASCAR passing down package. I am not sure Allen could fill this same void; Irvin at just under 260 wouldn’t, either.
I like Bennett but Seattle has so many large contracts on the books or coming (Harvin, Okung, Miller, Rice, Clemons, Bryant, Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Avril, Lynch) I don’t think he is a luxury they can afford to keep when there are potential one-to-two year rentals to fill a similar role. Especially when pass rushers will want to come to Seattle because a) the LOB in pass coverage b) the advantage pass rushers have at home in Seattle c) Carroll is a popular coach d) a chance to win a ring and e) the defensive depth results in less play time but more productivity per snap.
RE: Bennett and Chris Clemons. Last year everyone freaked out when Seattle only had KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner at LB. The draft cries were Seattle needed another LB. And yet Irvin and Malcom Smith stepped in at a high level and Seattle now has 4 very good young line backers going into their 2nd and 3rd seasons. Only Seattle knows who they have buried on their roster. That said I think it is likely Bennett gets a nice contract elsewhere and Clemons is forced to restructure/cut.
I expect Seattle to go for another “discount” pass rusher like Bennett and Cliff Avril last year—my guess would be a one year rental on Jared Allen as I expect the Vikes to cut him. Allen is productive but aging so I think going to Seattle, where there is line depth to keep him fresh and an opportunity to win immediately, is a good fit for him. I also think Irvin may get more time at the Leo spot Clemons plays as Seattle drafted Irvin for that specific role. This creates a slight problem as Bennett at nearly 280 would play DE on early downs but then move inside in the NASCAR passing down package. I am not sure Allen could fill this same void; Irvin at just under 260 wouldn’t, either.
I like Bennett but Seattle has so many large contracts on the books or coming (Harvin, Okung, Miller, Rice, Clemons, Bryant, Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Avril, Lynch) I don’t think he is a luxury they can afford to keep when there are potential one-to-two year rentals to fill a similar role. Especially when pass rushers will want to come to Seattle because a) the LOB in pass coverage b) the advantage pass rushers have at home in Seattle c) Carroll is a popular coach d) a chance to win a ring and e) the defensive depth results in less play time but more productivity per snap.
smackababy
Lifer
I don't see Allen getting cut, nor being cheap. Sure, he is up there in age (31), but in 2012 he nearly broke the season sack record. The entire Vikings team imploded last season, cutting their best defensive player wouldn't be a great idea.
I agree Bennett will probably go elsewhere. With how well Avril is doing, Seattle could afford to bring in some young talent to build up their front 7 and clear some cap room for that secondary.
I agree Bennett will probably go elsewhere. With how well Avril is doing, Seattle could afford to bring in some young talent to build up their front 7 and clear some cap room for that secondary.
glenn1
Lifer
Browns, Jags, and Raiders seem to take turns being most dysfunctional team in the league. Right now the Browns are the clear leader, but don't put it past the Jags to come up with something even crazier to regain the top spot.
Imported
Lifer
Haha same here.
glenn1
Lifer
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