2014 M3 to have 3 turbos?

[Atty]

The new flagship 3 Series is due in 2014, and will feature a fresh 3.3-litre six-cylinder engine. This is set to get three turbos – one powered by electricity, rather than the exhaust gases – and is rumoured to offer 450bhp. A mix of steel and ultra-light carbon fibre-reinforced plastic in the body will help deliver huge pace.

But as Nitschke revealed, the car will also be efficient. “There will be a bigger focus on very low fuel consumption,” he said. “The new M3 will prove this.” However, this more eco-friendly approach won’t dilute the M Division’s high-performance appeal – as a replacement for the M1 supercar is finally coming close to reality.

This will be interesting. Wonder how smooth a tripple turbo'd engine would be?

Source: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/269830/new_m3_leads_m_car_boom.html#ixzz1RX0lvVhf

E: Hasn't BMW always used their TT set ups with a small turbo for the low end and a bigger one for the rest? Guess the electric will be the low end power and maybe two for the top end? Hmmm

 

[overst33r]

This will be interesting. Wonder how smooth a tripple turbo'd engine would be?

Source: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/269830/new_m3_leads_m_car_boom.html#ixzz1RX0lvVhf

E: Hasn't BMW always used their TT set ups with a small turbo for the low end and a bigger one for the rest? Guess the electric will be the low end power and maybe two for the top end? Hmmm

BMW has never used a sequential setup AFAIK.

I think after 4 cylinders per turbo, it's a case of diminishing returns in terms of complexity/performance gain.

hehe

 

[JCH13]

I bet they're making the two normal turbos a little bigger to free up the top-end and using the electric 3rd turbo to provide low-end boost where the bigger turbos lose it.

 

[KIAman]

Or they are really going to scale the power by having the 2 conventional turbos just like before. One for low end power and one for high end power, each fed by 3 banks.

The electric turbo kicks in when there is little to no load and offers a slight boost all across the entire RPM range.

 

[MrWizzard]

I bet they're making the two normal turbos a little bigger to free up the top-end and using the electric 3rd turbo to provide low-end boost where the bigger turbos lose it.

:/ wonder if that really is less cost wise, than the Variable Turbine Geometry Porsche uses.

It seems the VTG might be better than 3 turbos, they are getting Torque of 480 lb.-ft. @ rpm 1,950 - 5,000.

 

[Howard]

:/ wonder if that really is less cost wise, than the Variable Turbine Geometry Porsche uses.

It seems the VTG might be better than 3 turbos, they are getting Torque of 480 lb.-ft. @ rpm 1,950 - 5,000.

lag != boost threshold

 

[JCH13]

:/ wonder if that really is less cost wise, than the Variable Turbine Geometry Porsche uses.

It seems the VTG might be better than 3 turbos, they are getting Torque of 480 lb.-ft. @ rpm 1,950 - 5,000.

I will bet you eleventy-jillion dollars Porsche has either a patent on that technology, or an exclusive licensing agreement with whomever does.

 

[LTC8K6]

Seems like compressed air was the way to remove turbo lag. Didn't Audi used to spin up turbos with compressed air?

IIRC, "electric turbocharger" is still a joke term. The power required to get any meaningful boost has never been there. Unless they have somehow gotten over that hurdle?

Or they are using an electric air compressor?

 

[Howard]

I will bet you eleventy-jillion dollars Porsche has either a patent on that technology, or an exclusive licensing agreement with whomever does.

They (not Porsche) were using it on diesel engines for a long time.

 

[JCH13]

IIRC, "electric turbocharger" is still a joke term. The power required to get any meaningful boost has never been there. Unless they have somehow gotten over that hurdle?

Or they are using an electric air compressor?

My understanding was that to make an electric turbo-charger practical one would need to bump up the 12v car system to hundreds of volts in order to effectively power an electric turbocharger (otherwise current heating/losses make it impractical). I think many automobile companies have become more comfortable working with high-voltage DC lines and DC-DC converters because of hybrid development, so maybe the problem does not seem insurmountable at this point.

Another thought: if the electric turbo is just there to supplement the real turbos at lower engine speeds it wouldn't need as much power as if it were the only, or primary, turbo on a vehicle.

 

[Howard]

Seems like compressed air was the way to remove turbo lag. Didn't Audi used to spin up turbos with compressed air?

IIRC, "electric turbocharger" is still a joke term. The power required to get any meaningful boost has never been there. Unless they have somehow gotten over that hurdle?

Or they are using an electric air compressor?

http://www.turbodyne.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=12

I could certainly see this being used for the low range where mass flow rates (and therefore spindle RPM) are significantly lower than for the mid-high RPM.

 

[LTC8K6]

IIRC, the turbopac is still impractical.

 

[thedarkwolf]

They (not Porsche) were using it on diesel engines for a long time.

Dodge was first back in 1989 and on a gas engine .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_geometry_turbocharger

 

[JCH13]

They (not Porsche) were using it on diesel engines for a long time.

Dodge was first back in 1989 and on a gas engine .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_geometry_turbocharger

Cool, very interesting.

It looks like there are many flavors of "variable geometry turbochargers." Is it possible (likely?) that Porsche has their own type with a unique mode of operation or combination of features?

Edit: Looks like Porshe does use a special flavor

The 2007 Porsche 911 Turbo has a twin-turbocharged, 3.6-liter horizontally-opposed six, and the turbos used are BorgWarner's Variable Turbine Geometry (VTGs). VGTs have been used on advanced turbo diesel engines for a few years, like the 1.9L Volkswagen TDI Engine using the Garrett VNT-15 turbocharger, on the Shelby CSX-VNT.(only 500 Shelby CSX-VNTs were ever produced, and 1046 Peugeot 405 T16s.) or in Fiat's 1.9 JTD engines.

 

[punjabiplaya]

rumor is rumor until I see it on a production car

 

[ElFenix]

um, if it's electric it's not a turbo. it's an electrosupercharger.

 

[KIAman]

I can't read the article from work. Does it mention if the engine is an i6 or a v6?

 

[punjabiplaya]

I can't read the article from work. Does it mention if the engine is an i6 or a v6?

well, since it's BMW, you can assume it's an i6

 

[KIAman]

well, since it's BMW, you can assume it's an i6

I would assume so too, but I've been hearing rumors that BMW is considering v6 configurations for a while now.

Please not on the F30 M3!!!

Edit: This might be my next car in 4 years.

 

[overst33r]

well, since it's BMW, you can assume it's an i6

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533140

 

[Howard]

um, if it's electric it's not a turbo. it's an electrosupercharger.

An electro!

 

[uclabachelor]

Ladies, don't wet your panties yet. I'll believe it when i see it.

 

[TheHashmaster]

i think someone at bmw's been hittin juice, lol

theyre also coming out with an M1 replacement, and an M2, those should be interesting, and at least with this new M3 there going back to an inline 6

 

[makken]

first thing that came to mind when i read that was this

But I think the way BMW is going to implement it is to have the electricity not come directly from the engine. IIRC the current M3 has a regenerative braking system, the electricity generated is used to power all electronics so that the car can disconnect the alternator during hard acceleration. BMW may be planning to adjust the system such that it uses the electricity generated from braking to power this turbo during re-acceleration.

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't see how regen braking could ever provide the high power needed to provide any boost. IIRC, you need a lot of power to get even 1psi of boost.