2012 Tesla Model S - First Drive

[Pulsar]

Looks very nice, too. I'm surprised Tesla has been able to pull this off so far, congrats to them.

Therein lies the problem. They haven't pulled it off. They've got a fleet of people who have invested incredible sums of money.

The short version is that just about any car company can build a nice all-electric car and sell it. Turning a profit is a completely different animal. Somehow, I don't see that happening. If it were going to happen, believe me, the other automakers would already be there doing the same thing. Look at how much money per volt GM gives away / loses.

I'm not a naysayer of Tesla - I wish them the best. I just think everyone needs to realize that this isn't really a company making a serious product right now. It's a company using venture capital to gain the spotlight.

Let me know when they have their first real quarterly report where they turn a profit after taxes without using venture / angel capital to do it. I'll applaud them for it.

 

[Doppel]

A simple generator makes it the only car you need. Pure electric cars just don't make sense yet. Even if there were charging stations everywhere, it takes a long time to charge a battery.

We're talking a simple small gas engine and small dynamo. it shouldn't weigh more than a couple hundred pounds.

The Car is $50-60k base price, so it's already well out of the realm of not making sense, technically.

regarding profitability I think Musk said it would be fairly soon. He's an eternal optimist but he's also a very impressive businessman. I hope he's right.

 

[Throckmorton]

The Car is $50-60k base price, so it's already well out of the realm of not making sense, technically.

regarding profitability I think Musk said it would be fairly soon. He's an eternal optimist but he's also a very impressive businessman. I hope he's right.

That's the price of the typical luxury car. Hell, there are pickups that cost that much.

Because of the limited range, you have to buy this plus another $50k luxury car. Adding $10k generator would make it a bargain.

 

[1prophet]

Therein lies the problem. They haven't pulled it off. They've got a fleet of people who have invested incredible sums of money.

The short version is that just about any car company can build a nice all-electric car and sell it. Turning a profit is a completely different animal. Somehow, I don't see that happening. If it were going to happen, believe me, the other automakers would already be there doing the same thing. Look at how much money per volt GM gives away / loses.

I'm not a naysayer of Tesla - I wish them the best. I just think everyone needs to realize that this isn't really a company making a serious product right now. It's a company using venture capital to gain the spotlight.

Let me know when they have their first real quarterly report where they turn a profit after taxes without using venture / angel capital to do it. I'll applaud them for it.

That immediate short term profit mentality along with no strategic long term vision is why Detroit cannot make a viable electric car, not the technology itself.

"Motor Trend, June 2006, p. 94
"Interview With Rick Wagoner
"His worst decision?
"...'Axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right
resources into hybrids. It didn't affect profitability, but it did
affect image.'"

 

[Imported]

No way getting an electric vehicle makes sense for me as there are no electric charging stations at my apartment.. Though something about the Model S looks cheap aesthetically.. Atleast all the ones I've seen around here (probably the same 2-3 cars but whatever).

 

[Pulsar]

That immediate short term profit mentality along with no strategic long term vision is why Detroit cannot make a viable electric car, not the technology itself.

Um.... last time I checked, there were a couple electric cars already made by the big three. Of course, if you're going to craft your own definition of 'viable' so that you can claim they aren't any good, then I guess there's no point in discussing it...

Complaining about companies not putting profitability first is a bit crazy. Especially companies that have just stepped away from the precipice of insolvency.

 

[LTC8K6]

Just pull a nice big diesel genset around with you like we did in Korea. Portable power.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'm thinking of adding electric air conditioning to my SUV.

http://michellemalkin.com/2012/06/27/mayor-bloomberg-idling/

 

[Ryan]

Except this is a RWD luxury sport sedan

I think the Volt's gas engine can drive the wheels directly too. It's not a series hybrid

From what I've read, the engine only provides physical assistance at higher speeds (the theory is that it more efficient to power the wheel directly at 70+ than to use the engine solely as a power generator). At those speeds, the engine couples with the drivetrain: http://green.autoblog.com/2010/10/11/gm-yes-the-volts-gas-engine-can-power-the-wheels/

I have a Volt, and honestly, I love it. It's quiet, smooth, and I use electricity for 95% of my driving. Rarely does the engine spin up. I would never consider a pure electric vehicle for the charge time and range alone - the Volt alleviates those fears for me.

 

[Throckmorton]

From what I've read, the engine only provides physical assistance at higher speeds (the theory is that it more efficient to power the wheel directly at 70+ than to use the engine solely as a power generator). At those speeds, the engine couples with the drivetrain: http://green.autoblog.com/2010/10/11/gm-yes-the-volts-gas-engine-can-power-the-wheels/

I have a Volt, and honestly, I love it. It's quiet, smooth, and I use electricity for 95% of my driving. Rarely does the engine spin up. I would never consider a pure electric vehicle for the charge time and range alone - the Volt alleviates those fears for me.

The reason I mentioned the direct drive is that it makes it more complex and requires the gas engine to be more powerful. If you were just using it as a generator it could be smaller and there would be no need for a transmission etc. So it would be easy to add a little generator to a car like the Tesla S

 

[Ryan]

The reason I mentioned the direct drive is that it makes it more complex and requires the gas engine to be more powerful. If you were just using it as a generator it could be smaller and there would be no need for a transmission etc. So it would be easy to add a little generator to a car like the Tesla S

Well, the Tesla technically DOES have a transmission - it's a one speed transmission.

The Volt is the same. The biggest issue relating to engine size is the ability to generate power - IIRC, the Volt only has a 1.4l 80hp engine. Any smaller, and you're going to have an issue generating enough power to propel the drivetrain.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

If you add a generator to the Model S it won't be a pure electric care. Tesla's goal is pure electric, not a hybrid.

 

[LTC8K6]

Are the powers that be figuring out how BEV owners will pay their share of highway taxes? I have heard lots of talk of a mileage tax, but it seems that's unlikely.