2011 Federal Budget Cuts

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,152
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Come on...that's just pure unadulterated BS. They were livid that Tauzin wrote the Medicare Part D bill and accused him of being in cahoots with the drug lobby.

The main objections were no allowance for drug re-importation and no direct drug price negotiations. These were the two main reasons given by almost every Democrat who said they voted against the bill.

During Obama's campaign, he promised to fix these two problems...and this is how he "fixed" it. Tauzin (now a prominent lobbyist for the drug companies) had a huge role in writing the Senate health care bill (Obamacare) which is a massive giveaway to the drug companies. Apparently, a backroom deal was cut to keep out drug re-importation and direct Medicare price negotiation in the bill. Also, to add insult to injury, Tauzin won another huge giveaway to the brand name drug makers by securing an extremely long exclusivity period for biologic drugs.

This is what hope and change looks like.

No it isn't, and a search on the debate at the time of its passage brings up that point over and over again. The party out of power always complains about the spending of the party in power, this shouldn't be news.

The other complaints you mentioned were also big parts of it though too, I agree. I was bringing it up in the context of the budget debate, and Democrats would much rather fund it than repeal it, so your idea of the Democrats wishing to eliminate Medicare Part D is.. uhmm... pure unadulterated BS. Drug reimportation and bulk negotiation are things that could likely garner considerable support among Democrats in Congress, and things they would vote for. Something tells me the GOP won't go about cutting the budget that way.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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No it isn't, and a search on the debate at the time of its passage brings up that point over and over again. The party out of power always complains about the spending of the party in power, this shouldn't be news.

The other complaints you mentioned were also big parts of it though too, I agree. I was bringing it up in the context of the budget debate, and Democrats would much rather fund it than repeal it, so your idea of the Democrats wishing to eliminate Medicare Part D is.. uhmm... pure unadulterated BS.
My sarcasm is lost on you.

Drug reimportation and bulk negotiation are things that could likely garner considerable support among Democrats in Congress, and things they would vote for.
Huh? Democrats drafted the bill behind closed doors and rammed it through the political process. They had every opportunity to fix it and they didn't. In fact they gave away even more concessions to big pharmacy! My God...what are you smoking?

Something tells me the GOP won't go about cutting the budget that way.
I doubt it too...so easy to give, so hard to take away.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,152
55,691
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That Democrats were willing to compromise to limit drug company resistance to the bill, something that was widely credited as being an impediment to Clinton's attempt in the early 90's. They put passage of the bill ahead of an issue that has fairly wide support among them.

I thought that was common knowledge.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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That Democrats were willing to compromise to limit drug company resistance to the bill, something that was widely credited as being an impediment to Clinton's attempt in the early 90's. They put passage of the bill ahead of an issue that has fairly wide support among them.

I thought that was common knowledge.
So, in other words, they sold out. Nice.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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We don't need drug re-importation. We simply need a simple, clean bill that prohibits selling to any non-US wholesaler or other entity at a lower price than the same drug is sold to US wholesalers. I'd call it the No Shitting Where You Eat Bill. Right now Americans pay the costs for developing and certifying a new drug, as well as much of the profits of drug companies. This is one big reason our health care costs so much. Rather than re-importing drugs and thereby fattening foreign wholesalers, let's simply level the playing field.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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I think in the medical area they are waiting to see what happens between the courts and O'Bama-Care. In the health care bill there is a lot of tinkering with Medicare. So that is a tricky subject. SSN as well as health care is like a sacred cow right now. Some states owe their soul to an illegal labor force and spend much of their budget on care for non-citizens. I think California pays like $21 billion to pay for Illegals.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
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Republicans- cut taxes at the top, then cut funding for enforcement, making it easier to cheat, then claim fiscal responsibility.

The biggest single cut is to the IRS...

Republicans see govt as incompetent, and when they're running it, it is.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Republicans- cut taxes at the top, then cut funding for enforcement, making it easier to cheat, then claim fiscal responsibility.

The biggest single cut is to the IRS...

No, it is called defunding obamacare.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,824
6,372
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We don't need drug re-importation. We simply need a simple, clean bill that prohibits selling to any non-US wholesaler or other entity at a lower price than the same drug is sold to US wholesalers. I'd call it the No Shitting Where You Eat Bill. Right now Americans pay the costs for developing and certifying a new drug, as well as much of the profits of drug companies. This is one big reason our health care costs so much. Rather than re-importing drugs and thereby fattening foreign wholesalers, let's simply level the playing field.

Bull Fucking Shit.
 

gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
4,689
7,927
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I'm wondering if we should just cut our "foreign aid" programs in addition, I'm sure Israel, Egypt and whomever else we give money for weapons would be fine without it. The fact of the matter is we need to cut spending across the board, defense especially, but defense spending shouldn't grow rapidly with an elderly population. Medicare and Social Security, on the other hand, will grow to be a very large portion of our budget (currently 35%, projected to double in the next 10 years). I see a lot of problems with the budget, but I think it should be possible to keep taxes at the same rate. Cutting taxes (further) will result in disaster. What we need to do is reduce spending, and keep it down. Follow this immediately by paying off our interest (reportedly 14% of the current budget). To summarize: cut foreign (especially military) aid, reduce defense spending and operations, reduce growth of social programs (especially Medicare and Social Security).

I'd like to take this time to blame LBJ. His "Golden Society" and his pioneering wars in Indochina. They both failed. What a wonderful precedent he set for future presidents. I'm just picking one today, I guess we can blame every president but it is really us that keeps allowing this to happen. But who wouldn't? We get "free" benefits, we never see the costs, we're too short term to allow anything stable to take hold... Oh well, we'll never find a way to spend within our means.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Bull Fucking Shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies
6/12 of the largest drug companies in the world are American, including the top 2 (by revenue).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
16% of America's GDP goes towards healthcare (by comparison, defense / offense is only 4% of America's GDP).

http://www.efpia.org/Content/Default.asp?PageID=388
The United States still dominates the biopharmaceutical field, accounting for the three quarters of the world’s biotechnology revenues and R&D spending.

While it is not accurate to say America pays for the R&D of all drugs, American taxpayers, universities and corporations pay the majority.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,824
6,372
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pharmaceutical_companies
6/12 of the largest drug companies in the world are American, including the top 2 (by revenue).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
16% of America's GDP goes towards healthcare (by comparison, defense / offense is only 4% of America's GDP).

http://www.efpia.org/Content/Default.asp?PageID=388


While it is not accurate to say America pays for the R&D of all drugs, American taxpayers, universities and corporations pay the majority.

Doesn't mean that at all.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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I'm pretty sure that Democrats' complaint was that it was unfunded, not that it exists. Lets raise the taxes to pay for it instead.

Other complaints about it included that it had a provision barring the government from negotiating the drug prices, adding hundreds of billions to the cost that went straight to big pharma profits from taxpayers - big pharma the #1 industry donor to the Republicans who passed it, making it the Republicans' #1 domestic priority to pass it.

Another complaint was the 'doughnut hole' and provisions making Seniors give up other benefits to get this one - it was a bill for big pharma, not to help the citizens.

(Democrats passed fixes to the doughnut hole when they got power).

Another complaint was the procedural disaster Republicans used to pass it - the leadership was DETERMINED to get this money for the big pharma donors, but they lost the vote. So, they simply extended it. For hours. All night. And they walked the floor pressuring members to change their votes.

One Republican reported at the time - later partly retracting his story - that the leadership had told him if he changed his vote, his son would get $100,000 in funds for his upcoming campaign, but if he didn't, his son would be blackballed by the party. He switched his vote.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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I'd like to take this time to blame LBJ. His "Golden Society" and his pioneering wars in Indochina. They both failed. What a wonderful precedent he set for future presidents. I'm just picking one today, I guess we can blame every president but it is really us that keeps allowing this to happen. But who wouldn't? We get "free" benefits, we never see the costs, we're too short term to allow anything stable to take hold... Oh well, we'll never find a way to spend within our means.

I'd like to take this time to blame boggling ignorance, leading to being vulnerable to ideology leading you to wrong opinions.

LBJ didn't have a "Golden Society" program. He had a "Great Society" program. Not important except for reflecting how familiar you are with what you opine on.

In fact, LBJ's Great Society programs, while flawed, did great good for the country, doing what society SHOULD do, help its citizens - not to mention the economic benefits of having the poor better off, more consuming - his programs cut the long-term poverty rate in the US by a third. Improved education, etc. (Not enough, as you prove).

What makes his war in Vietnam (started to appease Republican pressure for it to help get support for his programs to aid American) plural, warS in Indochina?

While the US was active in the region, the President who made that plural was Nixon, with his secretly starting war in Cambodia.

You are very, very confused about the issues of government spending, the economy, debt. It's all the same to you - spending that helps the country, and corrupt spending.

Indeed, you don't even mention one word about 'corrupt spending' - only the right-wing ideology about things like the Great Society.

It's citizens like you, who are choosing ignorance, who are the crux of the problem, blindly supporting the forces that misinform you to vote for the actually bad policies.

Back when Mao tried Soviet farming systems, and they failed miserably, his response wasn't to end them - it was to say the problem was, they weren't Soviet ENOUGH.

He greatly expanded them and made them even more 'communist' and millions of Chinese starved. You are kind of like that.

Not a word about the CORPORATE policies for their own benefit over the people, about the people drained to benefit the rich who are skyrocketing to a record of wealth.

Your answer: we need MORE of these polices, cut the benefits for the public more!!!!

Save234
 

gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
4,689
7,927
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I'd like to take this time to blame boggling ignorance, leading to being vulnerable to ideology leading you to wrong opinions.

LBJ didn't have a "Golden Society" program. He had a "Great Society" program. Not important except for reflecting how familiar you are with what you opine on.

I'm sorry, golden and great are very similar in my first language, apologies.

In fact, LBJ's Great Society programs, while flawed, did great good for the country, doing what society SHOULD do, help its citizens - not to mention the economic benefits of having the poor better off, more consuming - his programs cut the long-term poverty rate in the US by a third. Improved education, etc. (Not enough, as you prove).

Which is why they were immediately followed by one of the longest economic recessions in American history, because high budgetary expenditures obviously work.

What makes his war in Vietnam (started to appease Republican pressure for it to help get support for his programs to aid American) plural, warS in Indochina?

We were involved in the conflict in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia as well as parts of Thailand. We did not rage war on merely North Vietnam but each of these nations as well as the communist movement within South Vietnam itself. There were multiple wars raging at the same time in Indochina, many (if not all) were marked with American involvement. We, in the United States, merely group them into one big war. This is not historically correct.

While the US was active in the region, the President who made that plural was Nixon, with his secretly starting war in Cambodia.
Were we doing raids into Cambodia since 1965... I wonder how Nixon managed, time travel?

You are very, very confused about the issues of government spending, the economy, debt. It's all the same to you - spending that helps the country, and corrupt spending. Indeed, you don't even mention one word about 'corrupt spending' - only the right-wing ideology about things like the Great Society.
I'm sorry, but I'm an not sure why you equate "laissez faire" economics with right wing, but it is most certainly liberal in nature. To me, all spending is corrupt. Taxation is violence (application of force is involved in its collection), and thus theft. Any spending of this money is inherently corrupt.

It's citizens like you, who are choosing ignorance, who are the crux of the problem, blindly supporting the forces that misinform you to vote for the actually bad policies.
And who misinforms you of the wonderful nature of your proposals? The state. I'm not sure if you realize, but spending other people's money until we spend more than we all have together, is not a stable foundation for an economy. In fact, it is probably one of the leading causes of global warming: consumerism and overconsumption due to ignoring economic realities.

Back when Mao tried Soviet farming systems, and they failed miserably, his response wasn't to end them - it was to say the problem was, they weren't Soviet ENOUGH. He greatly expanded them and made them even more 'communist' and millions of Chinese starved. You are kind of like that.
Wait, are you actually arguing that forcing kolkhoz systems is a good idea? Not even the Marxists will say that is a good idea. I have no idea what you are smoking but collective farming only works if it is on an voluntary basis, look at the Hutterites of the Great Plains for an idea of how collective farming should work. If we use your logic, we should pursue every bad program. This is unacceptable and a free and open market would not allow such. This is the inherent inefficiency of the state, an inability to admit failure and self-correct (through bankruptcy and other more economically natural processes). The decision to start organizing farms by force is what caused famine, as well as the "kill sparrow" programs which increased infestation of crops by plague incests. Additionally, the five year plans prioritized steel production over agricultural production. The entire incident of Maoist China was caused by central planning, which is inherently inefficient.

Not a word about the CORPORATE policies for their own benefit over the people, about the people drained to benefit the rich who are skyrocketing to a record of wealth.
The corporate system that manufactures inflationary tendencies that cause higher prices for the average person as well as squandering of federal expenditure is due to just that: the federal (and state) expenditure. If the government had no means with which to exercise influence, there would be no possible way of taking money from others (via taxation) and distributing it to corporations. The system that exists in the United States (and most of the world) is inherently corporatist. These companies will extort the system, that we've created and allow them to. The solution is not to spend more as they'll just take advantage of it. Look, for example, at General Electric. The government announces a plan to fund wind power, so they begin constructing wind turbines (in Brazil, no less) and collect federal money and subsidies to sell them at what would be a loss. And now the government announces a high-speed rail project, so they being a plan to start constructing trains in China and selling them to the government, at GE's profit. This would not happen, if we did not have a powerful government. Spending of any sort can be corrupted, from social aid, to subsidies and most certainly defense expenditures. The fact of the matter is that you cannot eliminate this by spending more, but less (ideally none).

Your answer: we need MORE of these polices, cut the benefits for the public more!!!!
My answer is to cut all spending. Although I didn't outline it in the previous post, I'm an anarcho-capitalist. Essential to a voluntary free market system is the lack of a state and with it the collection of taxes. Benefits for the public, are no more than a forced system of theft and perceived "gifting". The majority of people suffer a net loss under such a system, again due to the inefficient distribution of resources, as described above. Your answer: we need bigger government that spends on programs that will surpass our entire expenditure by 2040, continue the system of abuse that builds mega-corporations. Now, stop projecting my argument beyond the extreme (it is already extreme enough). Thank you.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,405
8,584
126
Because it would defeat the purpose of Social Security. You shouldn't need any more evidence than 2008 as to how horrible an idea it is. Imagine what the government would have had to do if social security was entirely in private investment accounts then, we would have had destitute seniors everywhere that you know we would have ended up having to provide for anyway.

Privatizing social security is incredibly dumb. If people want to get rid of it, that's one thing. (I think a bad idea, but at least its coherent) The idea of privatizing it... complete stupidity.

i really want someone to find the numbers and see if that's actually true. SS pays a very low rate of return so it is possible that even at the depths of the stock market low you'd still come out ahead in the market. and of course, that's only for the funds that need to be cashed out at that time. if you didn't need to cash out all of your funds then (and i question the wisdom of a system requiring that all of a person's account get cashed out at one time) you've done pretty well for yourself the last couple of years.


of course, privatize doesn't necessarily mean that all the money is stuck in the stock market, or even that a person have much management or control over it. what it really means is that congress can't steal it from you at a whim. which it can do under the current system.

it's likely too late to change it now. if anything was going to be changed it needed to be done 20 years ago to make the transition easier. now we're so deep into the shit that hard decisions will need to be made. unfortunately hard decisions get pushed down the road more often than not.
 
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Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
According to what I heard this morning the budget cuts don't touch Medicare, Social Security, Homeland Security or Defense. What a joke.


THIS.


A million here, a million there. Soon we are almost talking about a drop in the bucket. :rolleyes:
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
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Obama is getting ready to submit his new budget proposal.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/14/us-usa-budget-idUSTRE71C1LH20110214

Obama's budget plan includes a range of domestic spending reductions -- including community development, home heating and education programs -- that would put the government on track to halve the federal budget deficit by the end of Obama's first term in office

But, the GOP says it does not go far enough:
But Republicans, who control the House of Representatives, said Obama's proposed spending cuts would not do enough to rein in the growing federal deficit and promised their own plan -- which has not been unveiled yet -- would go further.

Hopefully, we will have some summaries of the proposal available soon as it was released earlier today.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
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The total spending cuts in the CR will exceed $74 billion
...
. Flood Control and Coastal Emergencies -$30M Grab your blowup ducky
· Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy -$899M So much for getting off foreign oil
· Electricity Delivery and Energy Reliability -$49M Anyone got a match?
· Nuclear Energy -$169M Anyone got a match and some oil?
· Fossil Energy Research -$31M Save the dead dinosaurs
· Clean Coal Technology -$18M Saying clean coal is like saying a skinny obese person
· Strategic Petroleum Reserve -$15M yeah.. when its gone its gone
· Energy Information Administration -$34M Sounds like some 1-800 number where all you get is a machine recording to leave a message at the beep
· Office of Science -$1.1B I thought we were finished with all this science voodoo crap?
· Power Marketing Administrations -$52M Another 1-800 number answering machine?
· Department of Treasury -$268M Well since we are all owned by China, who needs THIS?
· Internal Revenue Service -$593M Tax audit for the Obama's is a comin
· Treasury Forfeiture Fund -$338M Memo.. the fund has been forfeited
· GSA Federal Buildings Fund -$1.7B Who in the hell needs all those historic buildings, anyway?
· ONDCP -$69M I thought Nintendo took care of this?
· International Trade Administration -$93M We trade? hehehe
· Economic Development Assistance -$16M For $16M thats not a lot of assistance
· Minority Business Development Agency -$2M No one is a minority. We're all a majority on Facebook
· National Institute of Standards and Technology -$186M Just reducing their name would save $186M in paper and ink
· NOAA -$336M I think they meant DADT?
· National Drug Intelligence Center -$11M hehehe. Like THAT ever worked
· Law Enforcement Wireless Communications -$52M Cup and a string anyone? A very long string.
· US Marshals Service -$10M Look out Marshal Matt Dillon
· FBI -$74M There's a bug in our bed, Barry
· State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance -$256M Squirt Guns & Rubber Bullets
· Juvenile Justice -$2.3M Parents! Take care of your brats!
· COPS -$600M Finally.. some good news for Rodney King
· NASA -$379M Welp.. I guess now that massive astroid is going to hit Earth after all
· NSF -$139M I had an overdraft check one time...
· Legal Services Corporation -$75M Q: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 50?
A: Your honor

· EPA -$1.6B Oh No... Not Al Gore too
· Food Safety and Inspection Services -$53M I feel a little.... sick and woozy
· Farm Service Agency -$201M We all know farmers vote republican. FUck-em!
· Agriculture Research -$246M See comment directly above
· Natural Resource Conservation Service -$46M WHAT? No more duckies?
· Rural Development Programs -$237M WHAT? No more white trash trailer parks?
· WIC -$758M What? No more beer on saturday nights?
· International Food Aid grants -$544M yeah.. Let the little boogers starve!
· FDA -$220M Take two and call me in the morning. If you're still alive, that is. Oh.. You MUST pay on the way out.
· Land and Water Conservation Fund -$348M And away goes troubles down the drain
· National Archives and Record Service -$20M How will future kids of tomorrow know Obama was a GOD?
· DOE Loan Guarantee Authority -$1.4B No big loss... No one can get a loan these days.
· EPA ENERGY STAR -$7.4M Not those little yellow sticky things shaped like a star?
· EPA GHG Reporting Registry -$9M My windows pc registry is always messed up
· USGS -$27M uggg
· EPA Cap and Trade Technical Assistance -$5M $5M to trade bottle caps?
· EPA State and Local Air Quality Management -$25M Whats that you're breathing? Is THAT chocolate?
· Fish and Wildlife Service -$72M Obama doesn't fish. FuCK-em
· Smithsonian -$7.3M What? No more NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM movies?
· National Park Service -$51M Who needs THAT when the kids have Nintendo?
· Clean Water State Revolving Fund -$700M Sounds like Russian Roulette
· Drinking Water State Revolving Fund -$250M Sound like Russian Roulette with a dirty glass
· EPA Brownfields -$48M Wheat! Wheat! Fields of wheat!
· Forest Service -$38M Darn dam trees, anyway
· National Endowment for the Arts -$6M Does this have something to do with Viagra?
· National Endowment for the Humanities -$6M Viagra for the poor program?
· Job Training Programs -$2B Yeah... Right...
· Community Health Centers -$1.3B OMG... ABORTIONS!
· Maternal and Child Health Block Grants -$210M I know a brat I'd like to take a block to. Don't we all?
· Family Planning -$327M And MORE abortions?
· Poison Control Centers -$27M WHAT? No more McDonalds?
· CDC -$755M Just wear a condom
· NIH -$1B Now THAT just makes me sick!
· Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services -$96M Oh Shit... Sarah Palin just will LOVE this one
· LIHEAP Contingency fund -$400M LET THEM EAT CAKE... And FREEZE to death while at it!
· Community Services Block Grant -$405M My block never got one...
· High Speed Rail -$1B Are we talking about China again?
· FAA Next Gen -$234M And if you look out your window just to the left, that is a mountain we are about to smash into
· Amtrak -$224M Skate Boards for all?
· HUD Community Development Fund -$530M More Saturday night beer money for someone