2010 GX460 -Consumer Reports "DO NOT BUY"

[thescreensavers]

Consumer Reports has officially given the Lexus GX the automotive equivalent of a black eye. The publication has deemed the high-riding luxury SUV a "safety risk" for its likelihood to go shiny side down during emergency maneuvers, and as such, has put it on the publication's infamous "Do Not Buy" list. During testing, the Consumer Reports crew found that the traction control on the GX would allow the vehicle to slide nearly completely sideways before getting everything in line.

Interestingly enough, while Consumer Reports tested the nearly-identical Toyota 4Runner, that SUV wasn't found to suffer the same problem with the traction control. Is it possible that all of the luxury goodies you'll find aboard the Lexus add enough pounds to overwhelm the vehicle's stability control, or that the Lexus has significantly different programming? It's possible.

So far, Toyota hasn't said much other than that it's concerned with the Consumer Reports findings. Considering that the Japanese manufacturer has had more than its fair share of bad publicity recently, being blacklisted by CR is just another log on the fire.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/13/toyota-issues-stop-sale-on-2010-gx-460/



Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw754vHd9_Y


CR is making it seem like anyone driving a GX will flip over taking a turn at any speed. they state " Take exits ramps carefully"

All this has to do is the VDC/ESC not kicking in fast enough, which seems simple enough to correct with a re flash.

They are doing 60 mph turned hard, It over steered but it did not roll... It seemed like ESC was in sport mode :O

I mean what the hell, people drove cars without ESC for many many years.

Yes this is a issue Toyota needs to fix but Consumer reports is making it seem like its a crazy issue, and went a bit far with what they said.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Omg if i turn too fast in a huge suv itll flip over? Wtf?

Idiots

 

[Sluggo]

I mean what the hell, people drove cars without ESC for many many years.

That's back when driving was a primary activity, not secondary to texting, talking and eating a breakfast burrito.

 

[LTC8K6]

The Lexus allows you to be more aggressive...

 

[thomsbrain]

This is probably the first vehicle Toyota has made in 20 years that doesn't doggedly understeer in all situations, and the pussies at Consumer Reports make it sound like it's a bad thing.

 

[StageLeft]

Toyota has stopped sales of this now. I thought the whole thing was a bit nuts.

Anyway, can somebody explain the physics behind being in a RWD car going around a hard corner, letting OFF the gas and then it oversteers? How TF does that happen?

 

[CraigRT]

Reminds me of Isuzu Trooper (which was actually fairly unsafe)

 

[Throckmorton]

Wait, so does that mean no vehicle without ESC will get a "DO NOT WANT" warning?

 

[StageLeft]

Wait, so does that mean no vehicle without ESC will get a "DO NOT WANT" warning?

I would think any "high center of gravity", i.e. any SUV without it would (?)

 

[LTC8K6]

Lift-Throttle oversteer is pretty well known, if that's what the complaint is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer

 

[Throckmorton]

I would think any "high center of gravity", i.e. any SUV without it would (?)

I don't even understand ESC. As far as I can tell, it reduces throttle when it senses wheelspin? How does that help stability, or keep you on the road? If you steer into a ditch, you are going into the ditch. Actually, sliding is much better than the alternative--- flipping. If you have a very high center of gravity that lets you flip, sliding prevents that.

 

[Throckmorton]

Lift-Throttle oversteer is pretty well known, if that's what the complaint is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer

I've experienced that in my 240sx, Miata, and Jeep... I didn't post because I couldn't picture in my head what was causing it, but that article explains it. Throttle causes the rear tires to experience more downward force, releasing throttle reduces their traction.

 

[thescreensavers]

I don't even understand ESC. As far as I can tell, it reduces throttle when it senses wheelspin? How does that help stability, or keep you on the road? If you steer into a ditch, you are going into the ditch. Actually, sliding is much better than the alternative--- flipping. If you have a very high center of gravity that lets you flip, sliding prevents that.

ESC uses driver input ie steering wheel and what direction the car is traveling.

So if it detects over steer or under steer it can engage brakes on individual wheels, Google Electronic Stability Control it is a great system.

 

[Bignate603]

Lift-Throttle oversteer is pretty well known, if that's what the complaint is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer

I can imagine that could end pretty badly for a driver. The natural instinct when you have to unexpectedly turn harder in a corner is to lift off the gas.

 

[LTC8K6]

I can imagine that could end pretty badly for a driver. The natural instinct when you have to unexpectedly turn harder in a corner is to lift off the gas.

Don't get behind on your driving.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I can imagine that could end pretty badly for a driver. The natural instinct when you have to unexpectedly turn harder in a corner is to lift off the gas.

Some cars handle it better than others. My 951 is very catch-able and can "dance" between lift-off oversteer and power-on understeer predictably. The older 911's, however, have introduced many drivers to the laws of physics (and to the armco barrier) as a result of the exact same control inputs.

ZV

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

It's consumer reports, what do you expect? They consistently fail at evaluating anything under the sun, particularly in the automotive arena.

Reading about their comparison of several midsize family sedans from '08 was an adventure full of oversights and plain snobbery, where they would become furious over a minor squeak but miss price structures and overall value entirely.

Their criteria is terrible and while they may not have bias introduced from the outside, there certainly are internal problems with stagnation, or at least constipation.

 

[Bignate603]

It's consumer reports, what do you expect? They consistently fail at evaluating anything under the sun, particularly in the automotive arena.

Reading about their comparison of several midsize family sedans from '08 was an adventure full of oversights and plain snobbery, where they would become furious over a minor squeak but miss price structures and overall value entirely.

Their criteria is terrible and while they may not have bias introduced from the outside, there certainly are internal problems with stagnation, or at least constipation.

Complaining about a squeak and 4 separate drivers having the rear end slide out going around a corner are two very different things.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Did anyone else think that looked fun as hell to do?

 

[zerocool84]

Some cars handle it better than others. My 951 is very catch-able and can "dance" between lift-off oversteer and power-on understeer predictably. The older 911's, however, have introduced many drivers to the laws of physics (and to the armco barrier) as a result of the exact same control inputs.

ZV

Hell yea the older 911 were hard to drive in turns. Totally different driving dynamics of a RR car. Slow in fast out for those older 911's without all the gadgets.

 

[jlee]

I can imagine that could end pretty badly for a driver. The natural instinct when you have to unexpectedly turn harder in a corner is to lift off the gas.

That's because the typical driver is in a front wheel drive car.

 

[StageLeft]

I've experienced that in my 240sx, Miata, and Jeep... I didn't post because I couldn't picture in my head what was causing it, but that article explains it. Throttle causes the rear tires to experience more downward force, releasing throttle reduces their traction.

That just seems totally nonintuitive to me. When you're cornering you've got the sideways pull on the tire and when under throttle you have it trying to grip to push the car as well, so when you stop accelerating although maybe there is less weight on the rear there's also less need for traction. Wouldn't the similar thing as this be if you were going too fast in a car with FWD and under steering you'd actually grip BETTER by accelerating? And that doesn't make sense, either. I'm not refuting the wiki link. It just doesn't compute for me.

 

[shortylickens]

It's consumer reports, what do you expect? They consistently fail at evaluating anything under the sun, particularly in the automotive arena.

Reading about their comparison of several midsize family sedans from '08 was an adventure full of oversights and plain snobbery, where they would become furious over a minor squeak but miss price structures and overall value entirely.

Their criteria is terrible and while they may not have bias introduced from the outside, there certainly are internal problems with stagnation, or at least constipation.

My mom has a subscription and she keeps giving me old issues cuz I "need to keep myself informed". The more I read them the more I realize they are not up to date on ANYTHING anymore. I know better than them about all their electronics simply by being a nerd and reading Anandtech & other sites. It makes me question their ability to properly evaluate anything. Not to mention for the past 10+ years they have given stellar reports on everything Toyota, despite the fact many models over a long period obviously had very serious problems.

I cant trust them anymore.
Not saying the above article is bogus, just that I dont give a shit simply because its from Consumer Reports. I'd wanna read other magazines and auto sites and discuss the issue in forums. I wouldnt make any decision based on just CR advice.

 

[LTC8K6]

There's a weight shift. You've shifted weight from behind the CG to in front of the CG. You've simultaneously loosened the rears and pegged the fronts. So the back end rotates around.

You should ease off the throttle and steer gradually.

When you lift abruptly, you get the sudden weight shift, which upsets the vehicle.

 

[Mermaidman]

They are doing 60 mph turned hard, It over steered but it did not roll... It seemed like ESC was in sport mode :O

I mean what the hell, people drove cars without ESC for many many years.

Yes this is a issue Toyota needs to fix but Consumer reports is making it seem like its a crazy issue, and went a bit far with what they said.

Notice that the video showed the test on a wide open area. In reality, the rear wheel would likely encounter a curb or soft median and the Lexus may roll over.

Per CR, none of the many other SUVs they tested came close to this degree of unexpected oversteer.