2008 Dodge Challenger....

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: MiataNC
No manual, no interest on my part at any price.

:thumbsup:

I have to agree and I think the lack of a manual is a killer for any US market vehicle.

It will cripple G8 sales initially.

Funny you say that. The reason they would make it auto is because that's what people want. People are too lazy now-a-days to shift or they have so much stop and go traffic that they want automatic. We are the minority.

Problem is these cars are made for the enthusiast, and enthusiasts prefer manual. Old school manual with a real pedal operated clutch, not even pretend manual semi-autos.

Funny, I had a tough time finding a dealership that had any GTOs in stock that weren't automatic. I suspect that most of those cars are made and sold with a slushbox...I'd bet more than half of all Corvettes are autos too.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
They will build up more hype and demand by getting them out and on the street and into the showrooms which in turn will bring in customers to look at the challenger and maybe walk out with a caravan. The platform they are built on is already setup for an automatic so build what they can and work on getting a manual in later. Trust me they aren't having any problems selling the 10k automatic only cars.

I see what you're saying, and those are valid points, I just think it's a little nuts to sell that thing @ 40k. But then again, maybe it'll be really nice, who knows. Some things can surprise you. I'm really skeptical, but hey, another possibility is that they crank up the SRT-8's output to 500+hp in a year or two. That would save a lot of potential embarassment. Let's face it, when you price an American performance car in the $40k range, if it's not Vette-level, it's at least got to perform on par with it's closest competitors (GT500 I suppose). With that HP deficit, it's doubtful?

 

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
They will build up more hype and demand by getting them out and on the street and into the showrooms which in turn will bring in customers to look at the challenger and maybe walk out with a caravan. The platform they are built on is already setup for an automatic so build what they can and work on getting a manual in later. Trust me they aren't having any problems selling the 10k automatic only cars.

I see what you're saying, and those are valid points, I just think it's a little nuts to sell that thing @ 40k. But then again, maybe it'll be really nice, who knows. Some things can surprise you. I'm really skeptical, but hey, another possibility is that they crank up the SRT-8's output to 500+hp in a year or two. That would save a lot of potential embarassment. Let's face it, when you price an American performance car in the $40k range, if it's not Vette-level, it's at least got to perform on par with it's closest competitors (GT500 I suppose). With that HP deficit, it's doubtful?

You can read around on here and see there are plans for more power soon with VCT and other tweaks.

 

[AdamK47]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
They will build up more hype and demand by getting them out and on the street and into the showrooms which in turn will bring in customers to look at the challenger and maybe walk out with a caravan. The platform they are built on is already setup for an automatic so build what they can and work on getting a manual in later. Trust me they aren't having any problems selling the 10k automatic only cars.

I see what you're saying, and those are valid points, I just think it's a little nuts to sell that thing @ 40k. But then again, maybe it'll be really nice, who knows. Some things can surprise you. I'm really skeptical, but hey, another possibility is that they crank up the SRT-8's output to 500+hp in a year or two. That would save a lot of potential embarassment. Let's face it, when you price an American performance car in the $40k range, if it's not Vette-level, it's at least got to perform on par with it's closest competitors (GT500 I suppose). With that HP deficit, it's doubtful?

You can read around on here and see there are plans for more power soon with VCT and other tweaks.

Variable Climate Traction? That would be awesome!

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
They will build up more hype and demand by getting them out and on the street and into the showrooms which in turn will bring in customers to look at the challenger and maybe walk out with a caravan. The platform they are built on is already setup for an automatic so build what they can and work on getting a manual in later. Trust me they aren't having any problems selling the 10k automatic only cars.

I see what you're saying, and those are valid points, I just think it's a little nuts to sell that thing @ 40k. But then again, maybe it'll be really nice, who knows. Some things can surprise you. I'm really skeptical, but hey, another possibility is that they crank up the SRT-8's output to 500+hp in a year or two. That would save a lot of potential embarassment. Let's face it, when you price an American performance car in the $40k range, if it's not Vette-level, it's at least got to perform on par with it's closest competitors (GT500 I suppose). With that HP deficit, it's doubtful?

You can read around on here and see there are plans for more power soon with VCT and other tweaks.

Variable Climate Traction? That would be awesome!

LOL I thought he miss wrote CVT

 

[AdamK47]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: MiataNC
No manual, no interest on my part at any price.

:thumbsup:

I have to agree and I think the lack of a manual is a killer for any US market vehicle.

It will cripple G8 sales initially.

Funny you say that. The reason they would make it auto is because that's what people want. People are too lazy now-a-days to shift or they have so much stop and go traffic that they want automatic. We are the minority.

Problem is these cars are made for the enthusiast, and enthusiasts prefer manual. Old school manual with a real pedal operated clutch, not even pretend manual semi-autos.

Funny, I had a tough time finding a dealership that had any GTOs in stock that weren't automatic. I suspect that most of those cars are made and sold with a slushbox...I'd bet more than half of all Corvettes are autos too.

GTO 2006 MY Total Production:13,948
Transmissions
Description Total Percent
Manual T56 8,764 62.83%
Automatic 4L60E 5,184 37.17%

Corvette 2007 MY Production:40,561
Transmissions
Description Total Percent
6-Speed Manual 18,139 44.72%
6-Speed Auto Paddle 22,422 55.28%

 

[Arkaign]

Hey Zero, bet your SRT > This one 😉

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
MANUAL IN 09!!!! HOW MANY FREAKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT Jesus Christ. Its only the limited 10k srt8s being built as 08s just to build up demand and hype that are automatic only.

yea... you might even see the 09 models come out in september, with these serving as the only models available.

I want to see full shots of the production model. The production grille looks badass, and the cuts of the body seem pretty mean. I'm hoping it's got a little more a mean look than the concept model, although I am already making plans to buy a Challenger, even if it looks like the concept, around 2013 when I'll hopefully still have my '97 Dakota. I want one so bad. Maybe a used '09 or '10 model in 2010. Course I want the SRT-8. I'd probably buy into some decent beater car, just cuz winters in Ohio make rear-wheel an awful choice in a lot of locations, let alone any road with an inch of snow. Hell, my rear-wheel Dakota HATES the snow, even with sand in the back.

 

[AdamK47]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
MANUAL IN 09!!!! HOW MANY FREAKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT Jesus Christ. Its only the limited 10k srt8s being built as 08s just to build up demand and hype that are automatic only.

yea... you might even see the 09 models come out in september, with these serving as the only models available.

I want to see full shots of the production model. The production grille looks badass, and the cuts of the body seem pretty mean. I'm hoping it's got a little more a mean look than the concept model, although I am already making plans to buy a Challenger, even if it looks like the concept, around 2013 when I'll hopefully still have my '97 Dakota. I want one so bad. Maybe a used '09 or '10 model in 2010. Course I want the SRT-8. I'd probably buy into some decent beater car, just cuz winters in Ohio make rear-wheel an awful choice in a lot of locations, let alone any road with an inch of snow. Hell, my rear-wheel Dakota HATES the snow, even with sand in the back.

Set the VCT to snow mode.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
MANUAL IN 09!!!! HOW MANY FREAKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT Jesus Christ. Its only the limited 10k srt8s being built as 08s just to build up demand and hype that are automatic only.

yea... you might even see the 09 models come out in september, with these serving as the only models available.

I want to see full shots of the production model. The production grille looks badass, and the cuts of the body seem pretty mean. I'm hoping it's got a little more a mean look than the concept model, although I am already making plans to buy a Challenger, even if it looks like the concept, around 2013 when I'll hopefully still have my '97 Dakota. I want one so bad. Maybe a used '09 or '10 model in 2010. Course I want the SRT-8. I'd probably buy into some decent beater car, just cuz winters in Ohio make rear-wheel an awful choice in a lot of locations, let alone any road with an inch of snow. Hell, my rear-wheel Dakota HATES the snow, even with sand in the back.

Set the VCT to snow mode.

oh for the Challenger? Is VCT good? How does it change the wheel drive pattern? Remember, my v-6 truck don't have all that much power, and I tend to find it a bitch to deal with if its slippery (packed snow it's not too bad on, it's the slippery fresh stuff piling on the roads during the day that starts to freeze at night.. ugh i slid nearly 75ft coming from a slow speed to begin with (approaching intersection, red light).. started gettin scared of the car in front of me stopped.

 

[thedarkwolf]

VCT = variable cam timing

"The Hemi engine is set for an upgrade, which may be why the non-SRT Challenger will take some time to show up. By 2009, Chrysler will have variable cam timing set up for its Hemi engines, neatly leapfrogging most variable-valve timing systems. The multiple displacement system is expected to remain for most, if not all, 5.7 Hemis. A 6.4 liter version is still expected, with 450-500 hp, though whether this is earmarked for the Challenger or not is still in question."

Just had to read a little bit on that allpar link I posted when I mentioned VCT and you would have figured it out.

 

[AdamK47]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
VCT = variable cam timing

"The Hemi engine is set for an upgrade, which may be why the non-SRT Challenger will take some time to show up. By 2009, Chrysler will have variable cam timing set up for its Hemi engines, neatly leapfrogging most variable-valve timing systems. The multiple displacement system is expected to remain for most, if not all, 5.7 Hemis. A 6.4 liter version is still expected, with 450-500 hp, though whether this is earmarked for the Challenger or not is still in question."

Just had to read a little bit on that allpar link I posted when I mentioned VCT and you would have figured it out.

Just having fun

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
VCT = variable cam timing

"The Hemi engine is set for an upgrade, which may be why the non-SRT Challenger will take some time to show up. By 2009, Chrysler will have variable cam timing set up for its Hemi engines, neatly leapfrogging most variable-valve timing systems. The multiple displacement system is expected to remain for most, if not all, 5.7 Hemis. A 6.4 liter version is still expected, with 450-500 hp, though whether this is earmarked for the Challenger or not is still in question."

Just had to read a little bit on that allpar link I posted when I mentioned VCT and you would have figured it out.

Just having fun

heh heh, and i don't know jack shit about these new things and definitely don't know what their abbreviations even stand for.. so I followed. lol

 

[Fenixgoon]

any idea how VCT works? as i understand for VVT (or my impression that may not be incorrect), the camshaft has multiple lobe sets that engage/disengage to alternate valve lift.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: MiataNC
No manual, no interest on my part at any price.

:thumbsup:

I have to agree and I think the lack of a manual is a killer for any US market vehicle.

It will cripple G8 sales initially.

Funny you say that. The reason they would make it auto is because that's what people want. People are too lazy now-a-days to shift or they have so much stop and go traffic that they want automatic. We are the minority.

Problem is these cars are made for the enthusiast, and enthusiasts prefer manual. Old school manual with a real pedal operated clutch, not even pretend manual semi-autos.

Funny, I had a tough time finding a dealership that had any GTOs in stock that weren't automatic. I suspect that most of those cars are made and sold with a slushbox...I'd bet more than half of all Corvettes are autos too.

2006 MY Total Production:13,948
Transmissions
Description Total Percent
Manual T56 8,764 62.83%
Automatic 4L60E 5,184 37.17%

2007 MY Production:40,561
Transmissions
Description Total Percent
6-Speed Manual 18,139 44.72%
6-Speed Auto Paddle 22,422 55.28%

Where the hell did you find that info? :laugh: Still, for the 2007 MY it does kind of support my post. More than half were automatics.

I'm surprised actually that the number of manual transmission cars is as high as it is...especially in 2006.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: MiataNC
No manual, no interest on my part at any price.

:thumbsup:

I have to agree and I think the lack of a manual is a killer for any US market vehicle.

It will cripple G8 sales initially.

Funny you say that. The reason they would make it auto is because that's what people want. People are too lazy now-a-days to shift or they have so much stop and go traffic that they want automatic. We are the minority.

Problem is these cars are made for the enthusiast, and enthusiasts prefer manual. Old school manual with a real pedal operated clutch, not even pretend manual semi-autos.

Funny, I had a tough time finding a dealership that had any GTOs in stock that weren't automatic. I suspect that most of those cars are made and sold with a slushbox...I'd bet more than half of all Corvettes are autos too.

2006 MY Total Production:13,948
Transmissions
Description Total Percent
Manual T56 8,764 62.83%
Automatic 4L60E 5,184 37.17%

2007 MY Production:40,561
Transmissions
Description Total Percent
6-Speed Manual 18,139 44.72%
6-Speed Auto Paddle 22,422 55.28%

Where the hell did you find that info? :laugh: Still, for the 2007 MY it does kind of support my post. More than half were automatics.

I'm surprised actually that the number of manual transmission cars is as high as it is...especially in 2006.

The 2007 Vette production numbers include the Z06. If you take away 8,159 Z06 sales which is only available in manual, the numbers swing even more to the automatic side. If you only account for the base C6 and not the Z06, only 32% of C6 was sold as manual and 68% automatic. Can you blame GM for charging extra $1200 for automatic? It's like free money to them.

 

[AdamK47]

Oops... I forgot to state what car they are from. The first set of figures (2006) is for the GTO. The second one (2007) is for the Corvette.

 

[imported_K3N]

and where did you get these figures Adam?

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Good god. That's pretty much a close-out price on a year-end Vette. What do you get for that $40k?

four seats to the vette's two.

Those cars are in different classes.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: MiataNC
No manual, no interest on my part at any price.

:thumbsup:

I have to agree and I think the lack of a manual is a killer for any US market vehicle.

It will cripple G8 sales initially.

Funny you say that. The reason they would make it auto is because that's what people want. People are too lazy now-a-days to shift or they have so much stop and go traffic that they want automatic. We are the minority.

QFT...the young want manuals, the older want automatics...they are the ones buying most of these types of cars.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: MiataNC
No manual, no interest on my part at any price.

:thumbsup:

I have to agree and I think the lack of a manual is a killer for any US market vehicle.

It will cripple G8 sales initially.

Funny you say that. The reason they would make it auto is because that's what people want. People are too lazy now-a-days to shift or they have so much stop and go traffic that they want automatic. We are the minority.

Problem is these cars are made for the enthusiast, and enthusiasts prefer manual. Old school manual with a real pedal operated clutch, not even pretend manual semi-autos.

Funny, I had a tough time finding a dealership that had any GTOs in stock that weren't automatic. I suspect that most of those cars are made and sold with a slushbox...I'd bet more than half of all Corvettes are autos too.

2006 MY Total Production:13,948
Transmissions
Description Total Percent
Manual T56 8,764 62.83%
Automatic 4L60E 5,184 37.17%

2007 MY Production:40,561
Transmissions
Description Total Percent
6-Speed Manual 18,139 44.72%
6-Speed Auto Paddle 22,422 55.28%

Where the hell did you find that info? :laugh: Still, for the 2007 MY it does kind of support my post. More than half were automatics.

I'm surprised actually that the number of manual transmission cars is as high as it is...especially in 2006.

simple google 'gto manual vs automatic production'

GTO's were 'different'...more a niche market. As a whole they were pretty unsuccessful with what GM wanted to sell I believe. It's a great car, but the market that was 'hot' for it was hoping for more vintage GTO than G8 looking.

I am sure the Challenger will sell largely to baby boomers that may have wished they had 'one' in the late 60's.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Hey Zero, bet your SRT > This one 😉

LOL I wish. This one gets traction.

 

[AdamK47]

Originally posted by: K3N
and where did you get these figures Adam?

Here and here.

 

[MBrown]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
MANUAL IN 09!!!! HOW MANY FREAKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT Jesus Christ. Its only the limited 10k srt8s being built as 08s just to build up demand and hype that are automatic only.

They should just drop in the manual from the start! I would never by a sports car with an automatic.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
simple google 'gto manual vs automatic production'

GTO's were 'different'...more a niche market. As a whole they were pretty unsuccessful with what GM wanted to sell I believe. It's a great car, but the market that was 'hot' for it was hoping for more vintage GTO than G8 looking.

I am sure the Challenger will sell largely to baby boomers that may have wished they had 'one' in the late 60's.

I think GM would argue quite a bit with you on that point. They had a set number of them that they were going to import for the production run, and they sold every one of them. That sounds like success to me.