2002 Medicare Survey

[daniel1113]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/997010.asp?0sl=-11

Given all the excitement, you?d think that passing a Medicare drug benefit would solve one of the nation?s pressing social problems. It won?t. But you wouldn?t know that from politicians or the press. They treat the elderly?s problems in getting drugs as a major social crisis. You would know it if you?d read a government survey of Medicare recipients in 2002. It asked this question: ?In the last six months, how much of a problem, if any, was it to get the prescription medicine you needed?? The answers were 86.4 percent, not a problem; 9.4 percent, a small problem; 4.2 percent, a big problem.

I hope this hasn't been posted before, as I think this survery alone shows how ridiculous the recent Medicare drug benefit plan is.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I hope this hasn't been posted before, as I think this survery alone shows how ridiculous the recent Medicare drug benefit plan is.

Actually I think it shows how ridiculous ANY Medicare benifit plan would be

CkG

 

[daniel1113]

Yep

 

[chess9]

You completely missed the point of the bill. Do you really think the Republicans passed this bill to help such a small percentage of Americans? Perhaps it had more to do with the millions of dollars that will be "re-paid" to HMO and insurance company donors to Bush's campaign?

Thanks for making the Republicans look like the fat cats they really are.

Daniel is hoist on his own petard again....

-Robert

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: chess9
You completely missed the point of the bill. Do you really think the Republicans passed this bill to help such a small percentage of Americans? Perhaps it had more to do with the millions of dollars that will be "re-paid" to HMO and insurance company donors to Bush's campaign?

Thanks for making the Republicans look like the fat cats they really are.

Daniel is hoist on his own petard again....

-Robert

No - I think it is YOU who missed the point There has been a clammor in Washington(from...?) for a Drug bill for quite a few years. The ONLY reasons it is suddenly a "bad bill" according to the Democrats is because it includes some privatization, and isn't big enough. They can whine and rant all they want but ANY bill they would have presented would also be a boon for HMOs, insurance companies, and etc. Just because this is a "Republican" bill does not change that.

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

I think anyone over 70 years of age should have access to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC! FOC = free of charge.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: chess9
You completely missed the point of the bill. Do you really think the Republicans passed this bill to help such a small percentage of Americans? Perhaps it had more to do with the millions of dollars that will be "re-paid" to HMO and insurance company donors to Bush's campaign?

Thanks for making the Republicans look like the fat cats they really are.

Daniel is hoist on his own petard again....

-Robert

Wow Robert... we agree on an issue, and yet all you can do is attack me. After all, I am the one who brought this issue up... lol. This whole bill is about politics, not the elderly. Both sides are guilty, and it needs to stop.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think anyone over 70 years of age should have access to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC! FOC = free of charge.

I agree, although there could be some means testing involved. I doubt Bill Gates needs free medications.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think anyone over 70 years of age should have access to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC! FOC = free of charge.

I think anyone over 70 year of age who cannot afford healthcare should have accress to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC.

In other words, the approximately 5-15% of medicare recipients that said it was a small problem or big probelm getting the necessary prescription drugs should receive more government aid.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think anyone over 70 years of age should have access to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC! FOC = free of charge.

I think anyone over 70 year of age who cannot afford healthcare should have accress to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC.

In other words, the approximately 5-15% of medicare recipients that said it was a small problem or big probelm getting the necessary prescription drugs should receive more government aid.

If they can afford it and wish to go to a private hospital fine.. but, no means testing. Means testing tends to degrade the service because the folks are deemed to be too poor to go elsewhere. Poor folks can just lie and say they are rich and maintain their self respect.. an important issue for older folks.. some would rather not be seen in that light.. But, I'd settle for the means test on a graduated scale. Rich folks use medical and like that to offest their medical costs now so by using a means test on a progressive scale may save $. There are lots of empty beds in many of the types of hospitals I mentioned.

 

[chess9]

CAD:

The Dems have lobbied quite hard for a prescription drug benefit, which is probably something we can't afford as long as we are the world's policeman. I'm not in favor of it for anyone who has income over some reasonable threshhold. I don't see it as fiscally responsible. But, to act as though the Republicans are pushing this bill because they care about poor seniors is ridiculous. That's the way they are trying to sell it and that's one of the reasons why Daniel focused on the supposed "benefit". [N.B.: Few seniors think it is a good bill, AARP to the contrary notwithstanding.] It is loaded with perks for the special Republican interests. None of that was in the bill Kennedy proposed. If you right wingers were really fiscal conservatives you would have been writing your congressman about this abuse of public money which is nothing more than a ruse to raise bucks for Bush's re-election. Instead, Daniel raises the spector of the bill fixing something that isn't broke instead of raising the central issue of the bill. Hypocrisy comes to mind.... Or, maybe just an inability to see the stupidity of Republicans while always finding something about Democratic Party issues to whine about?

This is a common problem here. People talking about the issues that make their side look good, while ignoring the fundamental flaws in their position. Ultimately, you vitiate ALL your arguments because they are assumed to be wildly partisan. Surprise, surprise.

-Robert

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: chess9
CAD:

The Dems have lobbied quite hard for a prescription drug benefit, which is probably something we can't afford as long as we are the world's policeman. I'm not in favor of it for anyone who has income over some reasonable threshhold. I don't see it as fiscally responsible. But, to act as though the Republicans are pushing this bill because they care about poor seniors is ridiculous. That's the way they are trying to sell it and that's one of the reasons why Daniel focused on the supposed "benefit". [N.B.: Few seniors think it is a good bill, AARP to the contrary notwithstanding.] It is loaded with perks for the special Republican interests. None of that was in the bill Kennedy proposed. If you right wingers were really fiscal conservatives you would have been writing your congressman about this abuse of public money which is nothing more than a ruse to raise bucks for Bush's re-election. Instead, Daniel raises the spector of the bill fixing something that isn't broke instead of raising the central issue of the bill. Hypocrisy comes to mind.... Or, maybe just an inability to see the stupidity of Republicans while always finding something about Democratic Party issues to whine about?

This is a common problem here. People talking about the issues that make their side look good, while ignoring the fundamental flaws in their position. Ultimately, you vitiate ALL your arguments because they are assumed to be wildly partisan. Surprise, surprise.

-Robert

Umm - hello!! I don't support this bill - just as I wouldn't support any bill(until the whole system is fixed). I have not once said or believed that the bill was to "help seniors" It's a HUGE MISTAKE - just like the tons of other entitlements. I think you've missed alot of what I've said about this and other wasteful entitlements. THEY NEED TO BE FIXED!! That's what I've been saying and it seem like you agree with. Partisanship has nothing to do with the issue - only the game of politics. You and DM can't seem to differentiate between the two.

PS - I think I mentioned in a different thread about writing letters
PPS - Ofcourse the Kennedy bill wasn't loaded with "perks for the special Republican interests" It was loaded with special Kennedy interests.

CkG

 

[chess9]

CAD:

Well, I'm truly sorry if I missed your previous posts lambasting this bill, but you did miss an opportunity to show us how even handed you can be when you responded to Daniel. I guess you just don't have your heart into bashing the Republicans.

Kennedy is never partisan. His motives are always as pure as Trent Lott's KKK credentials.

-Robert

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Umm - hello!! I don't support this bill - just as I wouldn't support any bill(until the whole system is fixed). I have not once said or believed that the bill was to "help seniors" It's a HUGE MISTAKE - just like the tons of other entitlements. I think you've missed alot of what I've said about this and other wasteful entitlements. THEY NEED TO BE FIXED!! That's what I've been saying and it seem like you agree with. Partisanship has nothing to do with the issue - only the game of politics. You and DM can't seem to differentiate between the two.

PS - I think I mentioned in a different thread about writing letters
PPS - Ofcourse the Kennedy bill wasn't loaded with "perks for the special Republican interests" It was loaded with special Kennedy interests.

CkG

Ummm, hello?! Claiming you don't support the bill is one thing, but why don't we see the same level of criticism for the Repubs? I mean, they passed it - right? All that comes out of your mouth is smack for the dems. I'm sure Chess and myself aren't the only ones to notice it.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Umm - hello!! I don't support this bill - just as I wouldn't support any bill(until the whole system is fixed). I have not once said or believed that the bill was to "help seniors" It's a HUGE MISTAKE - just like the tons of other entitlements. I think you've missed alot of what I've said about this and other wasteful entitlements. THEY NEED TO BE FIXED!! That's what I've been saying and it seem like you agree with. Partisanship has nothing to do with the issue - only the game of politics. You and DM can't seem to differentiate between the two.

PS - I think I mentioned in a different thread about writing letters
PPS - Ofcourse the Kennedy bill wasn't loaded with "perks for the special Republican interests" It was loaded with special Kennedy interests.

CkG

Ummm, hello?! Claiming you don't support the bill is one thing, but why don't we see the same level of criticism for the Repubs? I mean, they passed it - right? All that comes out of your mouth is smack for the dems. I'm sure Chess and myself aren't the only ones to notice it.

Ummm hello?! There is a difference between the issue and the politics surrounding it. Sorry you can't see that.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Umm - hello!! I don't support this bill - just as I wouldn't support any bill(until the whole system is fixed). I have not once said or believed that the bill was to "help seniors" It's a HUGE MISTAKE - just like the tons of other entitlements. I think you've missed alot of what I've said about this and other wasteful entitlements. THEY NEED TO BE FIXED!! That's what I've been saying and it seem like you agree with. Partisanship has nothing to do with the issue - only the game of politics. You and DM can't seem to differentiate between the two.

PS - I think I mentioned in a different thread about writing letters
PPS - Ofcourse the Kennedy bill wasn't loaded with "perks for the special Republican interests" It was loaded with special Kennedy interests.

CkG

Ummm, hello?! Claiming you don't support the bill is one thing, but why don't we see the same level of criticism for the Repubs? I mean, they passed it - right? All that comes out of your mouth is smack for the dems. I'm sure Chess and myself aren't the only ones to notice it.

Ummm hello?! There is a difference between the issue and the politics surrounding it. Sorry you can't see that.

CkG

Ummmm, hello!?! Then WHY do you keep playing politics with the issue? Every other comment from you on this issue is a slam on the dems. Give it a rest.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: chess9
CAD:

Well, I'm truly sorry if I missed your previous posts lambasting this bill, but you did miss an opportunity to show us how even handed you can be when you responded to Daniel. I guess you just don't have your heart into bashing the Republicans.

Kennedy is never partisan. His motives are always as pure as Trent Lott's KKK credentials.

-Robert

I'll leave the bashing of Republicans to the rest of you, but I did infact post a thread about this subject.

Originally posted by: DealMonkey Every other comment from you on this issue is a slam on the dems.

Oh really?


Here's your partisanship

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

They why I said "every other" you partisan hack.

EDIT: And that thread you reference was the result of my endless complaining.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think anyone over 70 years of age should have access to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC! FOC = free of charge.

I think anyone over 70 year of age who cannot afford healthcare should have accress to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC.

In other words, the approximately 5-15% of medicare recipients that said it was a small problem or big probelm getting the necessary prescription drugs should receive more government aid.

Thats the real problem, everyone gets it. Both my parents get SS and medical care and they don't need it at all.. But they say they paid in all thier life and want the benefits back... after all they were "sold" as insurance and investment plans NOT welfare so why should'nt they get some of thier investment back. So they are in thier 60's now and we will pay for them probably another 40 years since my grandaparents are still alive in thier late 90's..

 

[miguel]

They ought to make those voluntary. If you want to participate, you can benefit later. But it's not fair to charge you and then say you can't use it, just because you have money when you're old.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
They why I said "every other" you partisan hack.

EDIT: And that thread you reference was the result of my endless complaining.

Yes, your complaints that I "never" post anything bad about Republicans/Bush. And guess what topic I picked...That sure seems to make a statement on how much I dislike it, no? So, for you or anyone else to say that they " don't we see the same level of criticism for the Repubs?" on this issue is blatantly false as the linked thread points out.
I see threads in this forum everyday about "politics" instead of just on the issues so I will continue to post "political" threads and posts as I see fit. Claim anything you want but I don't see any attempt by the "other" side to curb "parisan style" postings which have become a staple in this forum. My commentary and opinion on the political game is just that - opinion and commentary. If that makes me a partisan hack according to you - fine - I could care less, because this is politics and the discussion there of.

This Medicare "debate" and political fallout is part of a bigger problem - our entitlement systems is broken and needs to be fixed before ANY more entitlements get passed - no matter who is pushing them - which I've repeatedly stated. So while people can sit there and whine about some pecieved partisanship, my position on these issues is any but partisan.

CkG

 

[DealMonkey]

Well, I just want to make sure the blame is squarely on the Republicans who pushed thru and passed this bill.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Well, I just want to make sure the blame is squarely on the Republicans who pushed thru and passed this bill.

I lay the blame on ALL of them who voted for and pushed this bill or want similar type bills instead of REAL reform.

CkG

 

[heartsurgeon]

I think anyone over 70 years of age should have access to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC! FOC = free of charge

well heck, why 70?,
why not 65,
or 60?
or 55?
what about the poor kids?

why not free beer for college students! free college! free cars! free! free! free!

ok, are you willing to pay 99% of your income to the goverment to support this program? or do you expect someone else to pay for it?

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

I think anyone over 70 years of age should have access to any Teaching, Veterans, Naval, Army or State or Federal funded hospital FOC with all medication prescribed given FOC! FOC = free of charge

well heck, why 70?,
why not 65,
or 60?
or 55?
what about the poor kids?

why not free beer for college students! free college! free cars! free! free! free!

ok, are you willing to pay 99% of your income to the goverment to support this program? or do you expect someone else to pay for it?

What is there to pay for other than the pills..? The MD's are there, the beds are there and if the patient is there we have a quorum. I see lots of beds, lots of staff, and lots of elderly folks in need of those services. A teaching hospital like University Hospital in San Diego or the VA Hospital in La Jolla could easily take in the folks and they do if you are aware of the changes in law regarding the VA Hospitals providing services.. I'm talking here of 70 yr old folks. The reason I chose 70 and not 65 or 60 has to do with the retirement age. I wish to encourage retirement at 70 not 65... that fuels more $ into the system.
These folks already qualify for medical, generally, so why do you see it as a delta cost?
I have made a simple statement regarding aged folks and where these folks should be provided medical services FOC. If we start a thread regarding National Health Care perhaps I'd share my views on the National Health Care Crisis.