2000 S70 SE Auto Tranny Dying?

[geokilla]

We took it into the mechanic shop that specializes in Volvo cars (known and went there for over 10 year I believe), and we found out that our S70's tranny is dying. Since I wasn't at the shop cus I had to do something downtown, my mom took the car into the shop, and when I got home, she said that the tranny is dying and we got quoted $3000 for a new tranny. The car has an auto tranny and it's the original tranny.

Thing is, we recently got new brakes, all season and winter tires, and did a major service on the car a couple month or so ago. So is paying for $3000 for an automatic 5 speed auto tranny reasonable? It'd be a waste to purchase a new car just because the tranny is dying. The mechanic said 2/3 of it is already dead or dying, so the tranny would probably last another couple months max? I dunno, I'm not a mechanic.

What would your advice be? Is it reasonable to fix it? I'm in Canada btw.

Also, is there anything else we should know about our S70 SE? We owned the car since it was brand new, and I'm just wondering if there's any other major problems that I should be aware of that could impact our decision on whether to keep the car or not. We are cash-limited that's for sure, so it wouldn't be a good idea to purchase a new car. However, it's not a good idea to purchase a new auto tranny either. We've done all the major service on the car, with the most recent one being done at 190k km I believe. I'd have to ask my mom to be sure, and I'm positive that we skipped all the minor service that were to be done at say every 10k km or something like that.

Volvospeed Thread

P.S. The mechanic drove the car around as always, and he told my mom that the car was kicking down awkwardly. Then he checked around or so my mom said, and that's when he said 2/3 of the tranny is dead or dying. Now we rarely kick down when driving so....less transmission stress meaning less chance of it dying or something?

 

[EvilHorace]

I believe that your trans is a 4 sp auto like my '95 turbo 850 but $3K (US?) from an independent shop seems high. Here in WI, I know that that if I need another trans, I can easily find a used one for about $300. My '850 has 200K miles on it and for an original 850 AW trans, that's alot of miles so sooner or later, I know I'll need one even though I flush the ATF often.
As for labor, it's a 10 hour job per flat rate manual although an experienced tech can do it in less time.
To my recollection (use to be a Volvo dealer tech), an OEM reman trans costs about $1,500 US (1 yr warranty) but might be more $$ today.

I'd advise getting another opinion from another shop, Volvo dealer. ATF EVER flushed? Needs to be ~ every 50K miles, despite the fact that Volvo never suggests doing that in print, saying that it's "lifetime fluid", never needs changing.

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: EvilHorace
I believe that your trans is a 4 sp auto like my '95 turbo 850 but $3K (US?) from an independent shop seems high. Here in WI, I know that that if I need another trans, I can easily find a used one for about $300. My '850 has 200K miles on it and for an original 850 AW trans, that's alot of miles so sooner or later, I know I'll need one even though I flush the ATF often.
As for labor, it's a 10 hour job per flat rate manual although an experienced tech can do it in less time.
To my recollection (use to be a Volvo dealer tech), an OEM reman trans costs about $1,500 US (1 yr warranty) but might be more $$ today.

I'd advise getting another opinion from another shop, Volvo dealer. ATF EVER flushed? Needs to be ~ every 50K miles, despite the fact that Volvo never suggests doing that in print, saying that it's "lifetime fluid", never needs changing.

I'm guessing you saw my PM from yesterday...

Anyways, it's 5 speed auto. The NA engines starting from 99 or 2000 use 5 speed instead of 4 speed. The shop is charging $3k CAD, but that's basically the price of a used Volvo 850 or S70.

Our old 850, which was sold to a friend, had it's tranny replaced or fixed or something shortly after they bought the car off of us. That 850 had around 240k km when this happened, so I guess it's about time for our S70.

I think the transmission fluid was changed once or twice at most. I'm gonna go with my mom tomorrow and I'm thinking of asking the shop to change the fluid regardless of whether we get a new transmission or not.

Just checked the service records, and the transmission fluid was changed at 98k km.

 

[Zenmervolt]

That does sound a little high, but I'm used to seeing prices for a rebuilt unit, not a brand new one, so keep that in mind. The transmissions are Aisin Warner units that are normally pretty reliable, but failing to change the fluid often enough can definitely kill them. I keep to a 30,000 mile schedule for a flush/fill on my cars. It's probably overkill, but it won't hurt anything.

If the rest of the car is in good shape and you know this, it's probably best to just fix the transmission. Buying a different car means you won't know what all has been done to it and its condition will be something of a mystery for quite a while. With the "new" transmission, just be sure to have the fluid flushed every 30,000 miles (call it 50,000 km) and you should get a good, long life out of it.

ZV

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
That does sound a little high, but I'm used to seeing prices for a rebuilt unit, not a brand new one, so keep that in mind. The transmissions are Aisin Warner units that are normally pretty reliable, but failing to change the fluid often enough can definitely kill them. I keep to a 30,000 mile schedule for a flush/fill on my cars. It's probably overkill, but it won't hurt anything.

If the rest of the car is in good shape and you know this, it's probably best to just fix the transmission. Buying a different car means you won't know what all has been done to it and its condition will be something of a mystery for quite a while. With the "new" transmission, just be sure to have the fluid flushed every 30,000 miles (call it 50,000 km) and you should get a good, long life out of it.

ZV

That's the thing. $3000 is basically how much the car is worth now. And we just dumped like $2000 to $3000 on it a couple months ago due to the 190k service, new winter and all season tires, etc. making this decision hard. I did find someone parting out 850 and S70 car and I asked them if they have the 5 speed auto tranny. If the tranny is indeed dying, I'm gonna try to keep our options open and see if my mom would accept a used transmission, assuming that transmission works with our S70.

The car is in good shape, but it's been glitching up lately. A month ago, the car refused to go into reverse, despite the gear already being in reverse. I floored it to like 1500 RPM because I thought there was ice stuck to the car and it still didn't move, so I put it back in park, then reverse again and everything was normal. A week after, we went from drive to reverse and back a couple times cus I was doing a 3 point turn, and the shift was VERY rough, another symptom of the tranny acting weird and glitching.

Yesterday, at service, the brake fluids was leaking or something, so we got that fixed. However, the brake failure light went on yesterday when my mom was driving around, and today when she was coming back from church. We got an appointment scheduled in for bringing it back to the shop tomorrow. More and more problems coming up all of a sudden.

Also, a mod on Volvospeed mentioned the PNP switch. Could that cause the tranny to glitch?

 

[thomsbrain]

How much a repair costs versus the value of the car is not an important issue, and never should be. The only factor that matters is the cost of the repair versus the value you will get out of the result. It could very well be cheaper to repair your car and continue driving it for another 100,000 miles, even if the car isn't worth that much on the street, versus buying another used car with unknown problems, or buying a new car and eating tons of depreciation.

Volvo autos are probably one of the weaker points on those cars, so its not too surprising for yours to be going out after ~120,000 miles. But again, if spending $3000 on it now results in a decent car that has another 100,000 miles in it, that could be a pretty good deal, regardless of how painful it is to spend that much on an older car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
That does sound a little high, but I'm used to seeing prices for a rebuilt unit, not a brand new one, so keep that in mind. The transmissions are Aisin Warner units that are normally pretty reliable, but failing to change the fluid often enough can definitely kill them. I keep to a 30,000 mile schedule for a flush/fill on my cars. It's probably overkill, but it won't hurt anything.

If the rest of the car is in good shape and you know this, it's probably best to just fix the transmission. Buying a different car means you won't know what all has been done to it and its condition will be something of a mystery for quite a while. With the "new" transmission, just be sure to have the fluid flushed every 30,000 miles (call it 50,000 km) and you should get a good, long life out of it.

ZV

That's the thing. $3000 is basically how much the car is worth now. And we just dumped like $2000 to $3000 on it a couple months ago due to the 190k service, new winter and all season tires, etc. making this decision hard. I did find someone parting out 850 and S70 car and I asked them if they have the 5 speed auto tranny. If the tranny is indeed dying, I'm gonna try to keep our options open and see if my mom would accept a used transmission, assuming that transmission works with our S70.

The car is in good shape, but it's been glitching up lately. A month ago, the car refused to go into reverse, despite the gear already being in reverse. I floored it to like 1500 RPM because I thought there was ice stuck to the car and it still didn't move, so I put it back in park, then reverse again and everything was normal. A week after, we went from drive to reverse and back a couple times cus I was doing a 3 point turn, and the shift was VERY rough, another symptom of the tranny acting weird and glitching.

Yesterday, at service, the brake fluids was leaking or something, so we got that fixed. However, the brake failure light went on yesterday when my mom was driving around, and today when she was coming back from church. We got an appointment scheduled in for bringing it back to the shop tomorrow. More and more problems coming up all of a sudden.

Also, a mod on Volvospeed mentioned the PNP switch. Could that cause the tranny to glitch?

PNP switch usually causes starting issues. What you described with reverse seems more like a problem with the shift linkage. The problem may be that the linkage is buggered up and the transmission is "between" selections. That can cause some interesting behavior. Though those same symptoms can also indicate that the transmission is going.

Thomsbrain is spot on about the repair being worth it or not. Selling the S70 and buying a different $3,000 car could very well cost you another $2,000 in repairs for things that go wrong in that "new" car. At only about 124,000 miles, that car should have a lot of life left in it yet, but you need to evaluate how solid the car is overall and whether you really think you can get a mechanically-perfect car for $3,000 that won't just have the same problems.

ZV

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
That does sound a little high, but I'm used to seeing prices for a rebuilt unit, not a brand new one, so keep that in mind. The transmissions are Aisin Warner units that are normally pretty reliable, but failing to change the fluid often enough can definitely kill them. I keep to a 30,000 mile schedule for a flush/fill on my cars. It's probably overkill, but it won't hurt anything.

If the rest of the car is in good shape and you know this, it's probably best to just fix the transmission. Buying a different car means you won't know what all has been done to it and its condition will be something of a mystery for quite a while. With the "new" transmission, just be sure to have the fluid flushed every 30,000 miles (call it 50,000 km) and you should get a good, long life out of it.

ZV

That's the thing. $3000 is basically how much the car is worth now. And we just dumped like $2000 to $3000 on it a couple months ago due to the 190k service, new winter and all season tires, etc. making this decision hard. I did find someone parting out 850 and S70 car and I asked them if they have the 5 speed auto tranny. If the tranny is indeed dying, I'm gonna try to keep our options open and see if my mom would accept a used transmission, assuming that transmission works with our S70.

The car is in good shape, but it's been glitching up lately. A month ago, the car refused to go into reverse, despite the gear already being in reverse. I floored it to like 1500 RPM because I thought there was ice stuck to the car and it still didn't move, so I put it back in park, then reverse again and everything was normal. A week after, we went from drive to reverse and back a couple times cus I was doing a 3 point turn, and the shift was VERY rough, another symptom of the tranny acting weird and glitching.

Yesterday, at service, the brake fluids was leaking or something, so we got that fixed. However, the brake failure light went on yesterday when my mom was driving around, and today when she was coming back from church. We got an appointment scheduled in for bringing it back to the shop tomorrow. More and more problems coming up all of a sudden.

Also, a mod on Volvospeed mentioned the PNP switch. Could that cause the tranny to glitch?

PNP switch usually causes starting issues. What you described with reverse seems more like a problem with the shift linkage. The problem may be that the linkage is buggered up and the transmission is "between" selections. That can cause some interesting behavior. Though those same symptoms can also indicate that the transmission is going.

Thomsbrain is spot on about the repair being worth it or not. Selling the S70 and buying a different $3,000 car could very well cost you another $2,000 in repairs for things that go wrong in that "new" car. At only about 124,000 miles, that car should have a lot of life left in it yet, but you need to evaluate how solid the car is overall and whether you really think you can get a mechanically-perfect car for $3,000 that won't just have the same problems.

ZV

What Thomsbrain said is true. Who knows what kinda problems a 96 850 may have. At least I know our own S70 and what kinda service it's done and what not.

If it's just a bad linkage, can a simple transmission flush fix it? I know I'm lacking some info here, but I'll try my best to gather the required info.

Also, the Volvospeed thread seems to be giving me some interesting suggestions. What do you guys say about this?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: geokilla
If it's just a bad linkage, can a simple transmission flush fix it? I know I'm lacking some info here, but I'll try my best to gather the required info.

The linkage is the physical connection (usually a cable) between the shifter in the car and the transmission itself. A flush won't even touch the linkage.

I don't really see any actual suggestions for the transmission yet in the Volvospeed thread. I do agree that you probably have a failed thermostat (stuck open) if the temp gauge is never getting to the middle of the range.

ZV

 

[geokilla]

No one there suggested the linkage yet. Also, did you visit the 2nd page?

The shop said the thermostat is fine. So the fact that it never gets into the middle like - could be caused by the winter weather. It fluctuates a lot, that's for sure. Like you see how in this pic the thermostat is in the middle, mine's usually a bit below that. However, I only noticed this during this winter. For all I know, it could be caused by the cold temperature that we're getting up here in the GTA.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: geokilla
No one there suggested the linkage yet. Also, did you visit the 2nd page?

The shop said the thermostat is fine. So the fact that it never gets into the middle like - could be caused by the winter weather. It fluctuates a lot, that's for sure. Like you see how in this pic the thermostat is in the middle, mine's usually a bit below that. However, I only noticed this during this winter. For all I know, it could be caused by the cold temperature that we're getting up here in the GTA.

It shouldn't fluctuate much. Once the car is warmed up, it should remain pretty stable. Your description made it sound like it was substantially away from the middle of the range. If it's just a little lower, that's probably normal variances.

I'm not sold on the PNP switch (that usually will throw a code), but it's definitely possible and far less expensive than a new transmission, so I'd say that it's worth trying.

ZV

 

[geokilla]

Taken from the Volvospeed thread.

Back from the shop and this is all the extra info I was able to get.

The brake failure light was going on and off cus there wasn't enough brake fluid in the reservoir. They topped it up free of charge.

As for the transmission, he's dead set on saying that nothing we can do to fix it. They could do a transmission flush if we want, but he says it won't help. He says it costs $100 for the fluid + $100 for the labour. If I was to purchase the transmission fluid from Toyota, how much would I have to buy?

They said it doesn't involve the PNP switch cus the orange arrow isn't flashing, and they don't want to waste our money on doing unnecessary things. He just says drive it till the tranny's shot.

They didn't want to do the VADIS and VCT check either because again, the tranny is shot, and nothing we can do will fix it.

So now, my mom asked me if I wanted an Acura on the way to school, and I said no due to lack of money, bad design now, etc etc. I told her about how you guys said that we could go to the dealer to do the VADIS and VCT check and she said she'll think about it basically because of the high labour costs that the dealer charges.

Man this sucks. >.<

 

[EvilHorace]

See my quote from above:
"I'd advise getting another opinion from another shop, Volvo dealer"

Do you want to ask and believe everyone online who can't physically see you car or do you want a real Volvo tech to look at at and actually diagnose the correct problem?

I was a Volvo dealer master/expert tech for 22 yrs and use to frequent, post on several Volvo sites like the Brickboard, sometimes Sweedspeed but I got tired of the BS. There are many who think they know things yet don't, just like to talk alot online.
This is the last I'll post in this thread. Don't F*** around and just pay a dealer the 1 hour (max) diagnostic labor rather than listen to everyone else guessing.

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: EvilHorace
See my quote from above:
"I'd advise getting another opinion from another shop, Volvo dealer"

Do you want to ask and believe everyone online who can't physically see you car or do you want a real Volvo tech to look at at and actually diagnose the correct problem?

I was a Volvo dealer master/expert tech for 22 yrs and use to frequent, post on several Volvo sites like the Brickboard, sometimes Sweedspeed but I got tired of the BS. There are many who think they know things yet don't, just like to talk alot online.
This is the last I'll post in this thread. Don't F*** around and just pay a dealer the 1 hour (max) diagnostic labor rather than listen to everyone else guessing.

Why are you so mad? It's not that I don't believe the shop, but the fact that everyone says a tranny fluid and PNP switch means that I should try and keep all options open for my mom. The last thing anyone would want to do is dumping $3000 on a transmission when a $500 or $1000 alternative would do just as well. And the thing is, they're bringing it back to the dealer to get that $3000 transmission, so why drive the car back to the dealer ourselves while at the same time getting the car checked out by the dealer.

I found a couple other Volvo garages, and I'm gonna give them a call within the next and see what they say. I'll also call the dealers to see how much it'd be for that VADIS and VCT check would cost. Again, the decision is up to my mom, and I'm just doing everything I can to keep our options open. We'll definitely bring it somewhere to get it checked up again.

 

[geokilla]

Took the car to Volvo Unionville yesterday.

Basically, they checked the car, took it for a spin, blah blah, and they said the car's fine. Transmission seems to be fine. Tranny fluid is brown (I saw) and it doesn't smell burnt. Apparently, this important battery cable was like corroded and getting destroyed, and that coulda been causing tons of problems with the car, so that was fixed. Then the transmission mount was cracking, so my mom went and got that changed as well. I could get the service record if need be and post it all in detail. Basically, it costed us $500+ to fix these stuff.