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20/20 - Politically Incorrect Guide To Politics

Evander

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2001
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phs6CwnutoY
(there are 6 parts, less than 30 mins total)

edit: you can also watch on abc's website in somewhat higher quality (5 parts):
http://abcnews.go.com/2020

This originally aired 10/17 but I just found out about it today and gave it a watch. Didn't see any postings on this board about it so thought I'd pass it along. It takes on everything from the government's handling of the economic crisis, Katrina response, farm subsidies and more.
What is your impression? Although it doesn't endorse any candidates, as a Libertarian I feel this vindicates my party's platform that small government is the best government and that when big government decides to intervene, it's solution is the equivalent of offering poison as food and poison as the cure. I was quite impressed to see this air on a mainstream network. If you disagree with the video's message that's fine- go ahead and give your POV (only if you've actually watched it all) but let's keep this civil and not call anyone names like republicrats or liberdopeians.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Wow. Thanks for that OP.

They pretty much show how inefficient big government is.

But as some here will tell you, since it was on video, it cannot be true.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
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I saw it a couple of days ago and I thought this was the best story that 20/20 has done in a couple of years.

:thumbsup:
 

Evander

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2001
1,159
0
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Glad so everyone so far has liked it. In appreciation of this and in hope they will deliver more in the future, here is an email I sent to John Stossel (his addy is on the ABC page I linked to) :
"I would like to thank John Stossel, 20/20, and ABC for airing this outstanding episode and also putting it on your website to view. You identified the problems, got the answers from the people in charge, and then called them on their responses - this is what real journalism is all about! If everyone in America watched this episode, they would be much better informed and realize that big government creates more problems than it solves, and voters would learn to vote on issues and candidates more appropriately. As a Libertarian and supporter of small government, I feel the Stossel's Guide to Politics vindicates my party's platforms, and I was happy to see a representative from the Cato Institute on your show. To be honest, I would not have expected something like this to air on a mainstream network and am happy to have been proven wrong. I will be recommending this video to others and will keep a close eye on what 20/20 has to offer in the future. Keep up the good work!"

If you liked the vid I would encourage everyone to also email Stossel your thoughts.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,402
9,248
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Originally posted by: Budmantom
I saw it a couple of days ago and I thought this was the best story that 20/20 has done in a couple of years.

:thumbsup:
You wouldn't like the other half of Stossel's politics, where he doesn't want big govt in our personal lives either.

I've always been a Stossel fan, particularly when he was the only one in the media to come forward with Peter McWilliams' plight back when.
Too bad the LP nominated Barr.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,403
1
0
I TiVo'd that special and thought it was fantastic. I contemplated starting a thread here but figured it would be a waste of time. It really breaks down, in layman's terms, why big government sucks the big one. The best segment was when he put those two ignorant representatives on the spot. The two economists seated side by side were gold. My wife, who doesn't really follow politics or economics, watched them and just "got it".

I've felt for a long time that Principles of Economics, both micro and macro, should be required courses for high school seniors. Fuck it - put it on the proficiency exams. After seeing this show, I think it should be required viewing in both classes.

I teach micro and macro in college and every quarter there is a handful of students who have their eyes opened (no, I do not incorporate my own personal politics - "left" and "right" NEVER come up). These are courses that I find are very satisfying for both lecturer and students who are interested in the basics of the "why".
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
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Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Budmantom
I saw it a couple of days ago and I thought this was the best story that 20/20 has done in a couple of years.

:thumbsup:
You wouldn't like the other half of Stossel's politics, where he doesn't want big govt in our personal lives either.

I've always been a Stossel fan, particularly when he was the only one in the media to come forward with Peter McWilliams' plight back when.
Too bad the LP nominated Barr.
You like Stossel, you do understand he is a fan of the "evil" free market, competition, speculators, for personal responsibility, against regulation, against bailout, against CRA and he even called out Barney Frank. Personally I love it when he cones on O'Rielly and puts him in his place.
Doesn't sound like anything you preach.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,402
9,248
126
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Budmantom
I saw it a couple of days ago and I thought this was the best story that 20/20 has done in a couple of years.

:thumbsup:
You wouldn't like the other half of Stossel's politics, where he doesn't want big govt in our personal lives either.

I've always been a Stossel fan, particularly when he was the only one in the media to come forward with Peter McWilliams' plight back when.
Too bad the LP nominated Barr.
You like Stossel, you do understand he is a fan of the "evil" free market, competition, speculators, for personal responsibility, against regulation, against bailout, against CRA and he even called out Barney Frank. Personally I love it when he cones on O'Rielly and puts him in his place.
Doesn't sound like anything you preach.
That's because you just make up what I preach like you do with most everyone else. I am a strong free market and personal responsibility proponent and always have been. My recent arguments on the CRA have not been to support it but to counter stupid partisan FUD regarding the housing bust.

And you do understand that Stossel is also pro-choice, anti-drug war, and anti-religion in govt and law, right? That doesn't sound like anything you preach.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
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Originally posted by: Vic
Too bad the LP nominated Barr.
Aye.

You said way back in the day that Ron Paul should have run as 3rd party candidate. You were right.

Regardless, if the LP would have nominated someone better than Barr, someone Paul could have really tossed some support to, I truly think he'd be polling at 15% and would have been in the debates. Winning probably wouldn't have been a reality, but a different take and different opinion would really help. Especially after this economic fiasco.

I'm about half-way through the 20/20 episode. So far, very good. The skating rink analogy is off base, but simple enough to get the point across.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
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Finished part 4, and it was so good I had to come in say "wow!"


Originally posted by: Genx87
My sig has a great piece done by him.
Watched it, it was also very good.
 

JohnnyGage

Senior member
Feb 18, 2008
699
0
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Stossel is one of my favorites. My sig has a great piece done by him.
As with "Dumb in America" the "politics" show was brilliant. I'm pretty much with Stossel on govt. policies.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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494
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Wow watched #4 and how can these campaign laws not be a violation of free speech?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,402
9,248
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
Wow watched #4 and how can these campaign laws not be a violation of free speech?
You should ask McCain that question.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
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Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Genx87
Wow watched #4 and how can these campaign laws not be a violation of free speech?
You should ask McCain that question.
Stossel slams him for it pretty good and rightfully so. One of the biggest complaints about McCain from conservatives was McCain\Feingold. I can understand why now. I knew it wasnt working as promised by the plethora of special interest groups doing the bidding of the candidates. But breaking a law by excercising your right to freedom of speech by placing a sign on your lawn is ridiculous. Didnt know it was that horrific of legislation.

 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
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Thanks, OP. I saw that this was on when there were only about 5 minutes left in the original airing, and didn't see any repeats in the future. I'll watch it this weekend.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,914
3
0
A bit too libertarian for me. . his ice rink analogy isn't very convincing (and sort of just wasted time) and he was able to cherry pick the worst failures of our government in the last ten years, which isn't too difficult considering we've had a dumb government. He also mischaracterized the bailout as a blank check given to banks, which it is not. I like Stossel and thought this was a good exposure of government's failure on some issues, but it did not turn me into a libertarian.
 

Evander

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2001
1,159
0
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Originally posted by: Farang
A bit too libertarian for me. . his ice rink analogy isn't very convincing (and sort of just wasted time) and he was able to cherry pick the worst failures of our government in the last ten years, which isn't too difficult considering we've had a dumb government. He also mischaracterized the bailout as a blank check given to banks, which it is not. I like Stossel and thought this was a good exposure of government's failure on some issues, but it did not turn me into a libertarian.
It wasn't just cherry picking the worst of that last 10 years - what about the story about the black woman who wanted to run for congress? The rules and regulations and massive fines she faced would surely be faced again today by any small time Joe who wants to run for office on a shoestring budget in order to try to improve govt. And what about the farm subsidies? That's been going on for decades. Hell, you don't even have to be a farmer to get govt. farm payments, as the video demonstrated.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
1
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Originally posted by: Evander
Originally posted by: Farang
A bit too libertarian for me. . his ice rink analogy isn't very convincing (and sort of just wasted time) and he was able to cherry pick the worst failures of our government in the last ten years, which isn't too difficult considering we've had a dumb government. He also mischaracterized the bailout as a blank check given to banks, which it is not. I like Stossel and thought this was a good exposure of government's failure on some issues, but it did not turn me into a libertarian.
It wasn't just cherry picking the worst of that last 10 years - what about the story about the black woman who wanted to run for congress? The rules and regulations and massive fines she faced would surely be faced again today by any small time Joe who wants to run for office on a shoestring budget in order to try to improve govt. And what about the farm subsidies? That's been going on for decades. Hell, you don't even have to be a farmer to get govt. farm payments, as the video demonstrated.
Not to mention, he could have pointed out 10,000 other things wrong with government. He could do a 1-hour show every week and never run out of material.
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,403
1
0
Originally posted by: Farang
A bit too libertarian for me. . his ice rink analogy isn't very convincing (and sort of just wasted time) and he was able to cherry pick the worst failures of our government in the last ten years, which isn't too difficult considering we've had a dumb government. He also mischaracterized the bailout as a blank check given to banks, which it is not. I like Stossel and thought this was a good exposure of government's failure on some issues, but it did not turn me into a libertarian.
The ice rink analogy isn't very convincing because it's not very analogous. It's just a bad comparison.

But if you take it for no more than it was meant - a bad central planner is not the reason central planning fails - it makes the point in terms anyone can understand.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
Farming and Govt handouts go way back. At the MN Zoo in the spring they do a farm with all the baby pigs, cows, sheep ect. They have a timeline of farming in this country and it really an example of govt and an industry tied at the hip.
 

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