2 man Brake Bleed/Flush?

[thescreensavers]

Ok, so I googled and looked up videos but almost all of them are with a pump for a one man brake bleed flush

How exactly do you do it with two people.

You take the bleed cap off, it will expose the bleeder, attach a piece of plastic tube and into a water bottle or a container, basically a place to put the old fluid, open/loosen the bleeder valve, it will start to trickle out.

Ask your friend to push on the brake Pedal and keep pushing it slowly all the way down, while you add more fluid and make sure it stays above the low line in the reservoir.

With your friend still holding the brake down, Cap the reservoir and close the Bleeder Valve and then let go of the brake pedal.

Then you can do it again or go to the next wheel, you do this one wheel at a time right?

Is that all you need to do? Am I missing something?

 

[alkemyst]

You googled and couldn't find instructions to bleed brakes without a pump?

I typed in "how to bleed brakes" not sure what you did.

First hit:
http://www.wikihow.com/Bleed-Brakes

Never heard of a three-man job.

 

[lavaheadache]

the resevoir isn't gonna empty out with one cycle of the push pedal/open bleeder screw. you can do it atleast 6 times in most cars before you even have to worry. Hell my bike can hold enough for that much in the resevoir too.

 

[thescreensavers]

You googled and couldn't find instructions to bleed brakes without a pump?

I typed in "how to bleed brakes" not sure what you did.

First hit:
http://www.wikihow.com/Bleed-Brakes

Never heard of a three-man job.

sorry typo, 2 man. I cannot belive I did not see that link

Any how You can lift the brake and no air would be sucked in? Or does the Bleeders need to be closed before you let the brake up?

also what is this ABS tool, how do I know the car needs it?

 

[alkemyst]

Seriously, I'd head over to a dedicated car forum for whatever you are working on and ask to be spoonfed

I really wouldn't recommend you attempt to work on your own brakes at this point.

At step 15, prior to telling your partner 'up'; you close the bleeder. If you don't air could be sucked in and you will have to start over.

A lot can go wrong in a brake job, one of the more common things is for someone to overtighten and snap the bleeder off.

If you are going to be doing this on the G35 in your sig you shouldn't need an ABS tool....

http://www.6mt.net/forum/performance-mods/14774-proper-brake-bleeding-procedure.html

 

[Howard]

I wonder why cars just don't come with speed bleeders.

 

[alkemyst]

because they can fail/leak. I have had trouble with them myself.

 

[thescreensavers]

Seriously, I'd head over to a dedicated car forum for whatever you are working on and ask to be spoonfed

I really wouldn't recommend you attempt to work on your own brakes at this point.

At step 15, prior to telling your partner 'up'; you close the bleeder. If you don't air could be sucked in and you will have to start over.

A lot can go wrong in a brake job, one of the more common things is for someone to overtighten and snap the bleeder off.

If you are going to be doing this on the G35 in your sig you shouldn't need an ABS tool....

http://www.6mt.net/forum/performance-mods/14774-proper-brake-bleeding-procedure.html

lol check the OP, I said exactly what I thought I needed to do and it happens to be correct, I just had a few questions, so I am not totally clueless. and yes I have searched. I just never saw your link, how do you think I know so much as what I wrote in the OP

I just see in lots of guides "May need ABS tool" but when I search for the car and +ABS tool it comes up with nothing, so thats why I ask. So I can understand.

Its going to be done on my friends Mazda 6, I have done plenty of maintenance on my car to be able to do this simple thing.

 

[alkemyst]

Like I said, I gave you a break down step by step and you were still confused about if you lifted the pedal would air get in.

I'd really hit up a Mazda 6 forum and get the play by play with torque specs on everything.

 

[thescreensavers]

Like I said, I gave you a break down step by step and you were still confused about if you lifted the pedal would air get in.

I'd really hit up a Mazda 6 forum and get the play by play with torque specs on everything.

I kinda knew about that was just wanted to confirm. Yea ill go in there but some major site with all the diy guides went down and now they all 404 but ill make a post there before I start. Again I got the stepby step right in the op. Just wanted to clarifiy. I don't have a inch pound tourqe wrench and many people just hand tight things when they ask for inch pounds. So I don't see a problem with hand tightening the bleeders once I see how tight they are on to undo.

 

[alkemyst]

untightening something is a bad way to guess how to retighten.

the problem with hand tight is everyone has their own opinion on that.

It's best to snug them down and recheck in a few days for any leaks rather than really crank them and shear one off.

Out of the friends that tried to do it themselves (against my advice of just paying me $50 or taking it to a shop), quite a few messed up something. Either air in the lines, broken bleeders or once putting their pads in backwards and screwing up their rotors.

The most common was putting the anti-squeal grease on the pad surface.

 

[skyking]

The most common was putting the anti-squeal grease on the pad surface

That makes for some REALLY quiet brakes!
OP: You break the bleeder loose on the longest brake line. snug it back up so it is sealed. Now have the pedal man apply pressure. you open the bleeder and let the fluid and air out. When the pedal man gets his foot to the floor he yells "down"and holds it there. you snug bleeder back up and yell OK.
he lets the pedal up and repeat. Every so often, stop and check/add fluid to the reservoir. Once you get clear fluid to the farthest brake, move to the next and repeat process.

 

[thescreensavers]

untightening something is a bad way to guess how to retighten.

the problem with hand tight is everyone has their own opinion on that.

It's best to snug them down and recheck in a few days for any leaks rather than really crank them and shear one off.

Out of the friends that tried to do it themselves (against my advice of just paying me $50 or taking it to a shop), quite a few messed up something. Either air in the lines, broken bleeders or once putting their pads in backwards and screwing up their rotors.

The most common was putting the anti-squeal grease on the pad surface.

^ Yea I know everyone has there own opinion on hand tight, but people say hand tight is 2ft/lbs then add a tool for leverage and its like a 1/8 of a turn..ect for like 7ft lbs

The problem I dont want him having is if it starts leaking lol, that wont be good

Yea I dont do any thing unless I am 100% sure. So Ill read up more on tightening it by hand and try to guestimate.

But the process is not that hard, I Just need to make sure no air gets into the system. And just add fluid. The hardest part will be the tightening to spec and so it does not get loose.

 

[StageLeft]

You've read enough that you should be fine. Doing it with two people is best. I once, and I cannot remember how, did my brakes with one of those weird gravity kits for a few bucks from Autozone but since haven't had luck. Also I tried a vaccuum bleeder and it sucked because it would not for the life off me hook around the bleed screw properly, despite trying a multitude of different tubes. As soon as it got wet air would get by, so having a friend do it is best.

I've heard some recommend putting some wood under the brake pedal to minimize play; apparently if it goes down _all_ the way you can cause damage to the brake booster, though I always forgot this and didn't have problems.

As mentioned, reservoir can be refilled every several pumps; leave its cap off the entire time and just keep an eye on it for level.

The instructions alk posted look great. Two key things:

1) Do not let the reservoir run out of fluid. Low is fine. Out is bad, because bleeding that master cylinder/reservoir is a pain in the butt.
2) Remember simply that any time the brake pedal is coming UP that the bleeder screw has to be tight in there. This way as the pedal coming up causes vacuum in the system and that vacuum is filled with fluid, as long as the bleeder screw is closed the fluid can only enter by being sucked through the master cylinder valve.

IMO this isn't so tricky and I think you'll be fine. Make sure the pedal feels good once you're done. If it doesn't you have air in the system and just need to bleed again.

In regard to tightening the bleed screws when you're done I have always just hand-tightened. I would be surprised if most mechanics don't. It's a small screw; it doesn't need much torque. I do have, however, an almost super-human ability to torque things properly (so I say, this is not documented). But again it's a small screw so don't go cranking that baby on there.

 

[Vetterin]

Skyking got it right! 1: start with the brake furthest away from the master cylinder and work your way to closest (rear passenger, rear driver, frt passenger and frt driver). 2: repeat bleeding until all air bubbles are gone and clean fluid is seen. Really not a big deal.

 

[SJP0tato]

I've heard some recommend putting some wood under the brake pedal to minimize play; apparently if it goes down _all_ the way you can cause damage to the brake booster, though I always forgot this and didn't have problems.

The reason this is suggested is the piston inside the brake master cylinder usually only travels 80-85% of the full bore, since with power brakes anything beyond 70% or so pedal travel has the brakes locked up 100% and the back pressure keeps the pedal from traveling any further. With the system open to air, there's no back pressure and the piston is able to travel further than usual.

If the brake fluid maintenance hasn't been kept up with or it's an older car (how old is anyone's guess) the piston and its seals can push/drag past a ridge of built up crud inside the cylinder and damage the seal, causing an eventual bad brake master cylinder (holding the pedal at a stop light and the pedal slowly sinks to the floor, etc).

At least that's why I've heard in the past the reasoning for putting a large object behind the pedal to keep you from pushing more than 3/4ths or so of the travel. Seems like cheap insurance if you can remember to do it.

 

[Bartman39]

Guess we all have our opinion of how to bleed brakes...? But after 30+ years of wrenching for a living and now am a supervisor over a shop here is my take on it...

skyking has it started quite well by going to normaly the right rear brake bleeder but do this after you check the master cylinder for being full of fluid... Remove the top to the res and leave it off... Now go to the right rear brake bleeder and open it using a 6 point box end wrench or 6 point socket that fits (most are either 1/4" or 5/16ths" some are 3/8th" or 10mm also) turn it approx 1 full turn and wait for good solid fluid with no bubbles coming out... Then close it with just a slightly firm feel not to tight as to break off the bleeder... Repeat the bleeding from the left rear and then move to the right front then of course the left front... The goal is to let gravity do the job because when you pump the brakes it will create tiny air bubbles from the turbulence of the movement inside the master cylinder and you wont get a perfect bleed out... Also by working your way from the fartherest point from the master cylinder you draw the most air out of the system... Be sure to check the fluid in the res and replace the cap because if you dont it will absorb moisture from the air and become dark and corrode the steel parts in the system besides possibly spilling and loss of brakes all together and brake fluid eats paint like a mutha...

Also this is a 1 person operation with very little chance of screwing up as opposed to the 2 person procedure which all it takes is one person with bad hearing and you got troubles...

 

[Howard]

Guess we all have our opinion of how to bleed brakes...? But after 30+ years of wrenching for a living and now am a supervisor over a shop here is my take on it...

skyking has it started quite well by going to normaly the right rear brake bleeder but do this after you check the master cylinder for being full of fluid... Remove the top to the res and leave it off... Now go to the right rear brake bleeder and open it using a 6 point box end wrench or 6 point socket that fits (most are either 1/4" or 5/16ths" some are 3/8th" or 10mm also) turn it approx 1 full turn and wait for good solid fluid with no bubbles coming out... Then close it with just a slightly firm feel not to tight as to break off the bleeder... Repeat the bleeding from the left rear and then move to the right front then of course the left front... The goal is to let gravity do the job because when you pump the brakes it will create tiny air bubbles from the turbulence of the movement inside the master cylinder and you wont get a perfect bleed out... Also by working your way from the fartherest point from the master cylinder you draw the most air out of the system... Be sure to check the fluid in the res and replace the cap because if you dont it will absorb moisture from the air and become dark and corroded the steel parts in the system besides possibly spilling and loss of brakes all together and brake fluid eats paint like a mutha...

Also this is a 1 person operation with very little chance of screwing up as opposed to the 2 person procedure which all it takes is one person with bad hearing and you got troubles...

Does this procedure actually get rid of all the air in the system?

 

[HarryLui]

http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/campingart/jettatech/bleeder/index.htm

 

[Bartman39]

Does this procedure actually get rid of all the air in the system?

Yes...

Do note though if your changing the master cylinder then there is a whole different procedure for bleeding... But it might also require the before mentioned procedure...

 

[thomsbrain]

I also do gravity bleeds on both my Hondas. Be prepared to let each corner sit for 30-45 minutes, but it works great and the pedal is hard. I usually get it started and then do whatever maintenance or chores I need to do while waiting.

 

[Howard]

I also do gravity bleeds on both my Hondas. Be prepared to let each corner sit for 30-45 minutes, but it works great and the pedal is hard. I usually get it started and then do whatever maintenance or chores I need to do while waiting.

What happens if you bleed all 4 corners at once?

 

[Bartman39]

What happens if you bleed all 4 corners at once?

Most brake systems are split into front and back sections but they are also "T`d" between the left and right so what happens is they tend to pull any air bubbles just back and forth between them... Also to get the proper amount of draw just one bleeder should be opened as some systems will bleed out alot fast than others... As stated cars like Honda`s and other small cars tend to bleed quite slow while a truck which of course has larger lines and overall brake systems tend to bleed like almost a steady stream...

There is another way also which uses a clear plastic bottle 1/2 full of new brake fluid and using a piece of vacuum line attached to the bleeder screw and once opened and the line put down in the bottle and submerged into the fluid you then can slowly pump the brakes and purge any air out but when doing this after each corner is done be sure to check the res to be sure it full of fluid... Unless your used to doing brakes like this I would not do it as it can get out of hand as well... The gravity procedure is IMPO the best and is of course a 1 person operation...

 

[thescreensavers]

I went over my friends house to see his car


The brake fluid is greeen I took a syringe. And pulled some out. This is not normal according. To the mazda 6 forums its contaminated? I have never seen green brake fluid.

It also was dark so it needs changing.


It seems this was a major issue with the 6's that get contaminated fluid and many people on the forums with post dating back to 06 are complaining about it.

So maybe there is a tab or recall.

 

[Bartman39]

Green...? Can you take a pic and show the crowd...?