2 main reasons I won't vote for Bush

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
Let's face it, gay rights is becoming a bigger issue each and every year. Gay marriages WILL become legalized in our lifetimes, and if you believe otherwise you are poorly mistaken. Today's youth has a much more accpeting and open view towards gays in general, and once you old fogey's die there won't be much of an opposition left.

That is only because of the gay activists teaching homosexuality in public school.

Hmm...

How To Be Gay 101


I missed that on my daughters' course listing.

Of course it's not called "How To Be Gay 101". Perhaps you've heard of a video called "It's Elementary". Any idea what it's about? Well, chances are most elementary school kids know...

You caught them Danny. It is all a plot to make you gay. They want your hot booty.

Where are the right wingers yakking about tin foil hats and conspiracy theories? You jump all over the left.

Once again, way to miss the entire point of a post. Conspiracy Theory? Hardly.

The point is that there will never be a class called "How To Be Gay 101". It will always be called something else... the pro-gay crowd isn't stupid...

So according to you Homosexuals are trying to turn America into a nation of Bone Smokers?

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
On the environmental policy aspect of the discussion:
For the guy who said rotten wood won't burn?
A Forest fire will burn everything in its path, including mud, as evidenced by the Florida fires a couple of years ago. Roots burn. ANYthing burns if it gets hot enough.

If a fire is that hot, we wouldn't be worrying about undergrowth, and no amount of thinning would have been sufficient unless we have each tree 20 ft apart from the next- but then calling that 'thinning' would be a bit of a stretch, and you would have rampant undergrowth thanks to the wide open space and excessive sunlight reaching the ground.

 

[rickn]

forget those reasons, I won't vote him because I think he's an idiot.

 

[conjur]

Here's a snippet from a USA Today article and it's the closest I've seen of any of the candidates that matches my thoughts:

If elected, Edwards said, he would support the right of individual states to decide whether to allow gay marriage.

"If California chooses to recognize same-sex marriage, that's fine and the federal government ought to honor it," he said.

Edwards also said he believes major policy changes are needed to prevent companies from shipping jobs overseas. He said he would support placing environmental regulations on countries that take American jobs.

"Right now we've leaned so far into free trade that we've forgotten what fair trade is," he said.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: conjur
Here's a snippet from a USA Today article and it's the closest I've seen of any of the candidates that matches my thoughts:

If elected, Edwards said, he would support the right of individual states to decide whether to allow gay marriage.

"If California chooses to recognize same-sex marriage, that's fine and the federal government ought to honor it," he said.

Edwards also said he believes major policy changes are needed to prevent companies from shipping jobs overseas. He said he would support placing environmental regulations on countries that take American jobs.

"Right now we've leaned so far into free trade that we've forgotten what fair trade is," he said.

Excellent.

I would rather put my Vote behind Edwards than Kerry for many reasons as stated before but this is certainly one of the biggest reasons.

A 20 year Career Senator that has been bought lock stock and barrel has no way to go against those that have him in their pocket to change the current "Foreign Domestic Policy".

 

[Saltho]

Kerry said something the other day that really made sense to me; it framed the whole "gay marriage" thing in a good way, methinks.

I'm paraphrasing, but he said marriage is a religious institution, and the government has no place saying who can and cannot get married. The civil aspects which are now intertwined with marriage ought to be seperate from marriage itself, and marriage is a religious institution, not a civil one.

I think that's great. And here's how I think it should play out:

Those civil benefits should be applied without prejudice of any kind; you should be able to choose absolutely anyone as your civil partner.

You take care of your mother and want her to be your civil partner for tax purposes? No problem. Your same-sex partner? Fine. You live with a sibling, and want to get partner health benefits? Great. I would imagine most people who got married would also have their spouce be their civil partner.

The sexual/reproductive aspects shouldn't even be a part of the debate, because a civil partner wouldn't imply such a relationship at all.

Marriage is a completely seperate institution, which is entered into (and dissolved, as applicable) at the discretion of your religious institution. If the Unitarians are willing to marry gay couples, that's fine. If the Southern Baptists won't, that's fine to.

As far as I'm concerned, the government, state or federal, has no business determining who my civil partner should be, and also has no business defining marriage at all.

I think this sounds pretty much like my ideal system. Thoughts?

 

[conjur]

Actually, marriage is not a religious institution. In fact, the Church did not get heavily involved until 1563.

The first marriage laws were enacted by the ancient Egyptians.

The government must be involved to protect the participants of a marriage (including children - even adopted in the case of same-sex marriages) should a divorce occur and also to provide legal protection, in the case of health benefits, retirement funds, etc.


People just need to get over their hangup on the word marriage.

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

The point is that there will never be a class called "How To Be Gay 101". It will always be called something else... the pro-gay crowd isn't stupid...

So according to you Homosexuals are trying to turn America into a nation of Bone Smokers?

[/quote]

How else do you explain Quuer Eye for the Straight Guy, Will & Grace, Boy Meets Boy, The L Word, and Queer as Folk? 😀

oh well, all kidding aside, im just tired of haveing homosexuality rammed down my throat, I wish it would dissappear like the black sitcoms of the 70's.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

The point is that there will never be a class called "How To Be Gay 101". It will always be called something else... the pro-gay crowd isn't stupid...

So according to you Homosexuals are trying to turn America into a nation of Bone Smokers?

How else do you explain Quuer Eye for the Straight Guy, Will & Grace, Boy Meets Boy, The L Word, and Queer as Folk? 😀

oh well, all kidding aside, im just tired of haveing homosexuality rammed down my throat, I wish it would dissappear like the black sitcoms of the 70's.[/quote]

Freudian slip?? 😛

It's not rammed down your throat.

What's rammed down peoples' throats is the "moral majority's" pompous preaching.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

The point is that there will never be a class called "How To Be Gay 101". It will always be called something else... the pro-gay crowd isn't stupid...

So according to you Homosexuals are trying to turn America into a nation of Bone Smokers?

How else do you explain Quuer Eye for the Straight Guy, Will & Grace, Boy Meets Boy, The L Word, and Queer as Folk? 😀

oh well, all kidding aside, im just tired of haveing homosexuality rammed down my throat, I wish it would dissappear like the black sitcoms of the 70's.[/quote]


you should be so lucky

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: conjur
What's rammed down peoples' throats is the "moral majority's" pompous preaching.

eh, thats where id disagree with you. every single human being is born with a certain capacity for discerning what is and what isnt moral [or for those who believe the word 'moral' is too religious, use right/wrong] some people just have the capacity to detatch themselves from that sense [thus you have all the immoralities that run rampant today]

Originally posted by: conjur
Freudian slip?? 😛

lol, nope.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

hey genesys what's really wrong with CA? Do you live here?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: conjur
What's rammed down peoples' throats is the "moral majority's" pompous preaching.

eh, thats where id disagree with you. every single human being is born with a certain capacity for discerning what is and what isnt moral [or for those who believe the word 'moral' is too religious, use right/wrong] some people just have the capacity to detatch themselves from that sense [thus you have all the immoralities that run rampant today]

You lost my point. That being that what is constantly apparent is the pressure from ultra-conservative, fundamentalist people who seek to push their Christian agenda upon every aspect of life in our country.

What you don't constantly see and hear is gay rights. Sure, it's in the news a lot right now but that's because it's election time and there's an abundance of activities in the courts.

If you don't like watching shows like Queer Eye for the Straight or Queer as Folk then don't watch them. It's hardly being rammed down your throat.

 

[DoubleL]

First off I am a Republican, Sure you are

wasn't going to vote for him either, but I remembered a few things from the 2000 elections. My "popular" vote really doesn't count; rather a more powerfull system choose's our president: Electoral College and US Supreme Court.

I keep hearing this and was thinking, AlGore got 50.16 million popular votes and Bush got 49.82 million if I am not wrong, Humm that is a monster win of 0.34 if I am right, Now to the votes that they would not count, Military would have went to Bush and I won't give that number cause I don't have the page but it was a sh+tload and the absentee ballots would have mostly went Bush that was lost, Humm most interesting

 

[conjur]

DoubleL, give it a freakin' rest already!

 

[DoubleL]

Give what a frinking break,

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
First off I'm a Republican all the way and am very happy with how Bush has handled the whole War issue. But lately there are 2 things that are completely unforgivable to me that will probably have me voting for whoever the Democratic or Independant nomonee is (depending on their stance on the same issues).

1) Bush has said over and over that he is very strongly in agreement that the US should adopt a policy of discriminating against it's own citizens simply based on ones Secual orientation. I am not gay and don't know all that many people who are. However, why should people be discriminated against and not have the same rights as everyone else simply because they have a relationship with someone who is the same sex as them. The whole point of if someone is gay or not doesn't affect anyone, in any way, except for that couple. So if they want to get married, why should they not be allowed to? Now I'm not talking about having children or anything more than the simple fact of being able to get married. If Bush keeps his strong stance for this deliberate discrimination (and other candidates are opposed to it) then they will get my vote.

2) Bush seems to have complete disregard for the environment. He has opened up natrual forrest reserves to be completely destroyed for logging, oil digging, etc. The natural forrests and such we have left are so incredibly small alreayd, we need all the help we can get to preserve them. Eventually we will get to a point where they are completely gone and then it will be far too late to do anything about it. If he continues to reverse policies that are in place protecting forrests and parks and such and opens them up to being destroyed, this again is a main concern that would force my vote a different direction (again assuming other candidates have the opposite view).

Does anyone else share my concerns about this or is it just me? hmm.

Ah well.

You, sir, are not a republican.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: DoubleL
Give what a frinking break,

You know damn good and well what.  The bitchin' and whinin' about the 2000 election.

 

[DoubleL]

Hey conjur shut your face, I make one post cause I am tired of hearing how poor Al got riped off, I don't let any kid say something like you just did with out a come back, Talk like that and someone will open a can of whipass on you boy

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: DoubleL
Hey conjur shut your face, I make one post cause I am tired of hearing how poor Al got riped off, I don't let any kid say something like you just did with out a come back, Talk like that and someone will open a can of whipass on you boy

My my my...what intelligent repartee!

And, poor Al got ripped off. HA! He was nabbed by justice. Gore tried to abuse the system to his gain and the Supreme Court found he was doing so. The Supreme Court did NOT give the election to Bush. They merely stopped the unconsitutional (as they were biased) recounts. In fact, it was a 7-2 vote. The 5-4 vote was on the remedy.

And, btw, kid? I probably have socks older than you given your childish "come back".

 

[Genesys]

chey genesys what's really wrong with CA? Do you live here?

no, not anymore, i moved away from Ca 8.25 yrs ago. i live in texas now [im not really sure which place is worse though 😀]

Originally posted by: conjur
You lost my point. That being that what is constantly apparent is the pressure from ultra-conservative, fundamentalist people who seek to push their Christian agenda upon every aspect of life in our country.

What you don't constantly see and hear is gay rights. Sure, it's in the news a lot right now but that's because it's election time and there's an abundance of activities in the courts.

If you don't like watching shows like Queer Eye for the Straight or Queer as Folk then don't watch them. It's hardly being rammed down your throat.

no no, i didnt loose your point. i see far more gay activists and rallys [in texas no less!!] than i do anything Christian [every once in a while i see an 'old fashioned church revival'] and ive never once experienced "ultra-conservative, fundamentalist people who seek to push their Christian agenda upon every aspect of life in our country", and i live in the bible belt! every single christian here is very mindful and trys not to step on anyones toes or offend someones religious senses. and no, not everyone here is christian, theres a surprisingly large ammount of aethiest/agnostic people here.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genesys

no no, i didnt loose your point. i see far more gay activists and rallys [in texas no less!!] than i do anything Christian [every once in a while i see an 'old fashioned church revival'] and ive never once experienced "ultra-conservative, fundamentalist people who seek to push their Christian agenda upon every aspect of life in our country", and i live in the bible belt! every single christian here is very mindful and trys not to step on anyones toes or offend someones religious senses. and no, not everyone here is christian, theres a surprisingly large ammount of aethiest/agnostic people here.

Under a rock in the Bible belt?

I'm talking about all aspects of life: Education, Government, TV. There's more and more activity from the fundamentalists trying to push their agenda. To them, freedom of religion means they're free to push their Christian agenda on everyone. They have no tolerance for other religions or people who do not follow a religion.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genesys

no no, i didnt loose your point. i see far more gay activists and rallys [in texas no less!!] than i do anything Christian [every once in a while i see an 'old fashioned church revival'] and ive never once experienced "ultra-conservative, fundamentalist people who seek to push their Christian agenda upon every aspect of life in our country", and i live in the bible belt! every single christian here is very mindful and trys not to step on anyones toes or offend someones religious senses. and no, not everyone here is christian, theres a surprisingly large ammount of aethiest/agnostic people here.

Under a rock in the Bible belt?

I'm talking about all aspects of life: Education, Government, TV. There's more and more activity from the fundamentalists trying to push their agenda. To them, freedom of religion means they're free to push their Christian agenda on everyone. They have no tolerance for other religions or people who do not follow a religion.

Under a rock in history class?

If you think fundamentalists are pushing an agenda today, you should read about America's early history, specifically pre-1800. Fundamentalist movements have practically vanished from our society.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genesys

no no, i didnt loose your point. i see far more gay activists and rallys [in texas no less!!] than i do anything Christian [every once in a while i see an 'old fashioned church revival'] and ive never once experienced "ultra-conservative, fundamentalist people who seek to push their Christian agenda upon every aspect of life in our country", and i live in the bible belt! every single christian here is very mindful and trys not to step on anyones toes or offend someones religious senses. and no, not everyone here is christian, theres a surprisingly large ammount of aethiest/agnostic people here.

Under a rock in the Bible belt?

I'm talking about all aspects of life: Education, Government, TV. There's more and more activity from the fundamentalists trying to push their agenda. To them, freedom of religion means they're free to push their Christian agenda on everyone. They have no tolerance for other religions or people who do not follow a religion.

Under a rock in history class?

If you think fundamentalists are pushing an agenda today, you should read about America's early history, specifically pre-1800. Fundamentalist movements have practically vanished from our society.

Removing evolution from schools in place of Creationism? 😕

Forcing religious artifacts such as the Ten Commandments to be displayed in courthouses, schools, etc.

Those are but two of the most common issues that are constantly in the news.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: daniel1113

2. Homosexuals are not discriminated against. They have every right that straight citizens have. I straight citizen cannot marry someone of the same sex, just as a homosexual cannot marry someone of the same sex. No discrimination here.

If that isn't one of the most bone-headed, trollish things I've ever read up here I don't know what is!

Really? Perhaps you misread what I said...

Can a straight man marry a woman? Yes.
Can a straigh man marry a man? No.

Can a homosexual man marry a woman? Yes.
Can a homosexual man marry a man? No.

Same rule applys to both parties...

ugh...

during the era of anti misegination laws

race mixing was illegal. sort of a twist on your reasoning. instead of not being able to marry their own, they weren't allowed to marry another😛 good proud tradition of bigortry you carry on though.

thats a huge reason to keep bush out of office, he can't seem to keep religion and government separate. he thinks the us should be a nation for just christians, and well, his kind of christians. he gave 500 thosuand dollars of tax money to pat robertson for f*cksake through his faith based initiative, which is already funding religious descrimination. church entities hiring workers based on religion etc while being funded by our tax money.

just look at his record in texas, he's left it a giant mess.

both financially, and educationally. his credit card policies have put the state into financial distress. his absurd education reforms have led to factory schools where administrators are forced to shuffle the numbers enron style to retain funding. think its absurd that wallstreet expect companies to return ever greater profits every quarter and well...lead execs to lie about numbers? well he's applied the same principal to kids. each batch of kids will get smarter every year. its a requirement. is that really possible? is lara bush more of a drunk because bush loves his other daughter more? its stupidly absurd. so schools hold back students 2 years and then jump them ahead 2 grades to skip the test etc.

then of course theres always his tax cuts for the rich. if your going to give the middle class a break, don't give half the money to rich people and put the country into deeper debt. ever heard of targeted tax cuts? even then he can't keep the spending down, no use of veto, no attempt, keep the pork rolling, even when you have a republican congress.

and don't forget, he did nothing but take vacations during the period before 9/11. and this was after campaigning endlessly about how clinton had stripped the military etc. negligence ....

and theres always the lie about the economy going down before he took office. thats bull, it began the slide after he got in.