2 identical systems, but one overheats regularly and shuts down

[QuietDad]

One loose pin is all it takes. The HSF needs to be firmly held agains the CPU and on corner loose will get air in there.

 

[Turbonium]

One loose pin is all it takes. The HSF needs to be firmly held agains the CPU and on corner loose will get air in there.

Argh.

The thing is, I got these off eBay brand new. The one was fine, but the other had 2 bad pins. I complained and got sent another one for free, but that one ended up having one bad pin, but I didn't quite realize it until now.

This is annoying.

What do you think of System 1's temps? I know they're high, but is it "good enough" for running at 24/7? I mean, aside from taking off a few years from the CPU's lifespan, will I see any other detrimental effects?

Note that the critical temp for the Q9650 is 100 degrees, and anything above 76 degrees is considered to be on the high side.

Those temps again @ 100% CPU load (°C): 84, 74, 77, 80 (2700 rpm)

 

[GLeeM]

It is unusual that the paste did not melt ... how could that system have worked for two months?!?

I don't think you may be able to get the temps under load down to 70 with those HSFs.
And check that the base is not warped with a razor blade or something else flat.

If you can afford it get a better HSF ... Cooler Master Hyper 212 something can be as low as about $30US.

Like I said the HSF must be very tight against the CPU, all four pins must work.

 

[Turbonium]

It is unusual that the paste did not melt ... how could that system have worked for two months?!?

I know! It's really weird.

Only explanation I can think of: during the summer, when my building has AC working, I like to keep my apartment nice and cool (no higher than 21 degrees, and often around 20). The recent and slight increase in temperature after the AC was shut off may have been the difference.

If you can afford it get a better HSF ... Cooler Master Hyper 212 something can be as low as about $30US.

I can't use that HSF (it's almost 160 mm in height, while my case's height is only about 97 mm).

However, I just contacted the original seller of the heatsinks on eBay, asking for a replacement, and offered to ship back the defective HSFs as proof. I hope they accept.

 

[QuietDad]

Paste doesn't melt. It chemically loses it's efficiency. If it melted, every PC would look like an overcooked grill cheese with the paste melting, leaking and oozing out. I agree with Gleem that a new HSF is in the works and I wouldn't be buying it for the same vendor. 2 out of 3 you got were worthless and one was marginal....

As for the temps being high, I'd rather spend $30 now on a good HSF that makes the CPU last for 2 years than save on an HSF now and spend $300 on a CPU in 2 months.

 

[Turbonium]

Paste doesn't melt. It chemically loses it's efficiency. If it melted, every PC would look like an overcooked grill cheese with the paste melting, leaking and oozing out. I agree with Gleem that a new HSF is in the works and I wouldn't be buying it for the same vendor. 2 out of 3 you got were worthless and one was marginal....

As for the temps being high, I'd rather spend $30 now on a good HSF that makes the CPU last for 2 years than save on an HSF now and spend $300 on a CPU in 2 months.

It was my understanding that as long as you run below the thermal maximum/critical, a CPU should last beyond the point where it becomes obsolete, even if run at full load 24/7.

Either way, please recommend me a good aftermarket HSF. Case height: 97 mm (the HSF likely has to be 90 mm or shorter, given the clearance needed for the motherboard and the case cover's thickness and such... I'll measure the exact dimension limits tomorrow, as I'm too lazy to open up the case again at this point).

Note: I am researching HSFs myself, but I'd just thought I'd ask for recommendations.

I'm guessing this is reliable?: http://anandtech.com/bench/CPUCooling/772

 

[Turbonium]

Would this be better than stock Intel cooling?: http://ncix.com/products/?sku=84141&vpn=CNPS7000V(AL)-1-PWM&manufacture=ZALMAN TECH

Or is aluminum not efficient enough? They have an all-copper version, but it's 50 bucks...

Noise isn't an issue by the way. I just want it to stay at or below 70 degrees at full load, give or take.

Another link: http://www.zalman.com/eng/product/C...ategorySecond=CAS1&PageSize=12&SNSeq=5&Page=1

 

[Turbonium]

I think I'm going to go with this one:

http://www.ncix.ca/products/?affili...00 Quiet&manufacture=ZALMAN TECH&promoid=1306

33 bucks. Thoughts?

I just hope the mobo's Northbridge heatsink isn't in the way. I'll find out when I measure it later tonight.

 

[QuietDad]

That only had one review and the reviewer gave it a 2 out of 5 because it blocked two DIMM slots on his motherboard. Measure it up and if it fits...

 

[Turbonium]

That only had one review and the reviewer gave it a 2 out of 5 because it blocked two DIMM slots on his motherboard. Measure it up and if it fits...

Yea, it's the measurements I'm worried about. But if it fits, I can't imagine it being worse. I mean, it's pure copper, with high surface area. If anything, temps will go down.

I actually used this design (aluminum/copper hybrid) for my old P4, and it was great.

 

[QuietDad]

It's been awhile since I had to buy a HSF (got over 60 here in a pile...) especially for socket 775, so I'm really not the one to ask for a real recommendation, but the Cooler Master that Gleem recommended is a decent unit I'm familiar with and it's good.

 

[Turbonium]

It's been awhile since I had to buy a HSF (got over 60 here in a pile...) especially for socket 775, so I'm really not the one to ask for a real recommendation, but the Cooler Master that Gleem recommended is a decent unit I'm familiar with and it's good.

It won't fit in my case! Hence the last few posts.

 

[QuietDad]

Nothing a hacksaw and some dynamite wouldn't fix.....

 

[biodoc]

I think I'm going to go with this one:

http://www.ncix.ca/products/?affili...00 Quiet&manufacture=ZALMAN TECH&promoid=1306

33 bucks. Thoughts?

I just hope the mobo's Northbridge heatsink isn't in the way. I'll find out when I measure it later tonight.

That cooler includes a backplate with screws which is good but you'll have to pull the motherboard to install it.

If this is your case: http://in-win.com.tw/US/products_pccase_series.php?cat_id=1&series_id=44&model_id=245

Looks like you are severely restricted for cooling options. Apparently you can install an 80 mm fan on the side vent. One reviewer at newegg said there's a foam filter installed on the CPU intake vent which severely restricts air flow.

If you really want to do distributed computing long term, you're better off getting a proper case with good cooling and a good HSF.

I suspect you haven't been running "full Load" for 2 months. Your bios is probably clocking back your processor to reduce temps.

 

[Turbonium]

That cooler includes a backplate with screws which is good but you'll have to pull the motherboard to install it.

If this is your case: http://in-win.com.tw/US/products_pccase_series.php?cat_id=1&series_id=44&model_id=245

Looks like you are severely restricted for cooling options. Apparently you can install an 80 mm fan on the side vent. One reviewer at newegg said there's a foam filter installed on the CPU intake vent which severely restricts air flow.

If you really want to do distributed computing long term, you're better off getting a proper case with good cooling and a good HSF.

I suspect you haven't been running "full Load" for 2 months. Your bios is probably clocking back your processor to reduce temps.

Yup, I'm aware of the 80 mm option and have already ordered 26CFM fans to install. As for the foam filter: it is removable and I can always do that if need be.

I wasn't aware of having to remove the motherboard to install that HSF. This is an annoyance to say the least. I'd rather not do this to avoid further problems - what cooler(s) do you recommend that fit the dimension restrictions and have no need for backplate installation? If none really exist, I'll remove the motherboard (albeit more than reluctantly).

And yea, you're totally right about that last point... I realized this as well once I saw the thermal pad hilarity I posted earlier. The system was essentially throttling nonstop for 2 months. Not good. :/

About DC long-term: point taken. If I ever put together more DC boxes, I'm going to make proper cooling a priority. I just didn't think these slim cases were this limited in cooling in non-gaming setups. Apparently I was wrong.

 

[biodoc]

Any cooler without a backplate uses the push-pins that you have experienced.

Newegg is a good source for options and reviews.

I don't have any experience with these types of coolers but this one might be one of the better options for an "intel replacement" with pushpins.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835200034

 

[Turbonium]

I've been doing some more reading, and it seems like a backplate is the more sound choice (temp-wise), if a bit more of a hassle at first. I'm actually considering still going with those Zalmans as a result. I mean, I might as well go all out if I'm getting a proper HSF, right (all out within the limitations of my current chassis).

Push-pins just seem to wear out over time, or can be defective to start with, as I experienced.

EDIT: Seems like I overlooked a basic measurement error. The Zalmans actually don't fit (they're slightly too wide for the case itself on one end, even though there is enough clearance for both the Northbridge heatsink and RAM modules).

 

[biodoc]

I can see we're pulling you in the right direction.

Now for $50 for a proper case and a good HSF like GLeeM recommended you'd be in business for DC!

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129181

 

[Turbonium]

Yup. Although for these 2 DC boxes, I'm just going to keep the current cases. I might as well.

Next time around though, I'm not going to go with a slim tower (though I'll miss the aesthetic factor; they certainly look "tech chic" standing vertically next to each other the way they do).

Btw, I don't know if you noticed, but see the last post in the following thread to see my HSF choice this time around: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2347575

I think I'm going with this (backplate) model: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16835999010

It's better than the stock cooler, and fits in the dimensions allotted (barely, once I replace the fan with something better/thinner).

 

[biodoc]

Looks like an excellent option for your case.

Another thing you may want to consider is to limit the voltage applied to the processor under "full load".

It's very likely the bios is automatically setting the voltage to your CPU to higher than necessary when you run it full load. Excess volts=excess heat. The goal here is to reduce your CPU temps to <70
C.

I checked your bios options and it looks like there are 3 settings you need to play with.

CPU Voltage Override (Sets the processor voltage.)

CPU Voltage Override Type

None: Allows the processor to manage its own power
usage with default upper limits.
Static: Keeps the processor at a specific user specified
voltage at all times.
Dynamic: Allows the processor to manage its own
voltage level, but with user-specified upper limits.

CPU VREG Droop Control

Selecting a lower V-droop supplies more overall power to
the CPU. This will increase heat, but may provide more
CPU stability

The first thing to do is to check the bios for the current settings and also check the vCore for your processor (should be somewhere in the bios).

Hopefully you can reduce the voltage applied to the cpu to reduce heat and also maintain stability and accurate computation (mprime for linux is equivalent to Prime95 for windows)

 

[Turbonium]

Awesome, thanks for the info.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind a bit of excess heat in exchange for stability. I mean, I'm getting a nice HSF for a reason, right? To be able to cool things down well. But yes, I'm aiming for 70 degrees or less at 100% load. That would be awesome (and I would definitely brag about it, given the constraints of these slim cases).

I am getting this fan by the way, to replace with the default fan (I have to, given the height constraints): http://ncix.com/products/?sku=77369

Extra expenses with the separate fans, but whatever. If I was that concerned over a few extra dollars here and there, I wouldn't be folding in the first place.

Do you know of any thinner fans by the way? Ideally along the lines of 10 mm (92 mm diameter). The one above is 14 mm, but that's really pushing it.

 

[biodoc]

My computers run 24/7 so if I spend some time to get the voltage right, I can extend the life of the processors and reduce my already excessive power bill.

Anyway, it's an option that doesn't cost anything but time and will save money in the long run.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Hopefully a better heatsink will fix it. I've seen some processors generate more heat than others without being pushed more voltage/work...occasionally, you get a lemon.

Definitely look at Biodoc's suggestions for bios fixes....sorry I don't have any technical fixes to offer.

 

[Turbonium]

You know, given today is a holiday anyway (Thanksgiving here in Canada), I might as well take my time with this and really analyze things (given they won't be shipping out anything even if I place an order today).

For example... is there any way to attach a fan to something like this?: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16835114128

 

[Sunny129]

i don't know that that is an "official" fan mounting method for that product (didn't see one in the product description), but there's gotta be a DIY way of getting a fan on there...perhaps bent paperclips will hold a fan on there?