(2) ATI Radeon 4870 killed my power supply?

[Kroze]

My system was running fine up to recently where I decided to add another graphic card to my system to run it in Crossfire mode.

My current spec was:
- Intel Core i3 2100
- 8GB DDR3 Ram
- 2 SATA hard drive 7200rpm and a SATA DVD-RW
- ATI Radeon HD4870

My el-cheapo $20 ($19.95) 580watt power supply I bought from newegg ran it just fine.

Yesterday my second ATI radeon 4870 came in the mail and I installed it to run it in crossfire mode.

I was playing black ops for a little bit and it was running so smooth. I loved it! For $75 more, I have the performance level of an ATI 5870 for next to nothing.

Anyway while I was playing Black ops, I smell something burnt. Next thing you know my whole system shut off like the power just got cut out. By that time the burning smell was overwhelming.

Then opened the case up and see what was going on. WOW! the 2 ati 4870 run extremely hot. You could cook eggs and steak with them.

So I let the computer cool off for a couple of hours and tried to power it up again.

The system will turn on but I noticed that the graphic card's fan weren't running. Both of them wasn't.

Now i'm confused because if the power supply was burnt, why did my system turn on? Is it possible that it's just the power wires that supply the power to my graphic cards are bad?

 

[Dark Shroud]

Sounds like the PSU hasn't burnt out all the way. I've had that happen with my own system.

If you can't borrow a PSU get yourself a Corsair or Seasonic. HD 4870s are hungry cards under full load.

 

[VirtualLarry]

My el-cheapo $20 ($19.95) 580watt power supply I bought from newegg ran it just fine.

You have a decent, if budget, rig. Why did you choose a PSU that was only $20? 580W for $20 is laughable. If you were going to spend money on a PSU, spend it wisely and get a decent name brand for a little more.

Antec EarthWatts 500W is $50 right now after coupon code at Newegg. They have two PCI-E 6-pin power connectors, which should be enough for two HD4870s.,

 

[Dark Shroud]

CORSAIR Builder Series CX500 V2 = $57 AS & AR

 

[996GT2]

You have a decent, if budget, rig. Why did you choose a PSU that was only $20? 580W for $20 is laughable. If you were going to spend money on a PSU, spend it wisely and get a decent name brand for a little more.

Antec EarthWatts 500W is $50 right now after coupon code at Newegg. They have two PCI-E 6-pin power connectors, which should be enough for two HD4870s.,

You should also take your own advice for this thread you posted:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2165310

 

[VirtualLarry]

You should also take your own advice for this thread you posted:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2165310

Except my situation is different, I wasn't choosing that PSU for a build. I cannot explain the details of why, but I just simply wanted to know if it would work or not.

All of my own rigs use quality Antec PSUs.

 

[SparkyJJO]

A $20 "580W" power supply may put out that much power, but only when it catches fire.

 

[imagoon]

I never understand the whole "watt inflation" thing going on in PSU's now a days. Old 350watt units could actually deliver 350 watts at decent room temps. Now a "350watt" PSU seems to be rated as "1050watts!!!!11!1!*" *peak for maximum of 1.2ms. Sad thing is the 8 lb 350 watt might run that whole setup (little to close to 100% imho but still) while "750watt" units are bursting into flames. Is this like the "2000watt" home stereo systems from 10 years ago that has 1 amp fuses? (IE they never could do more than 120ish watt or they would pop the fuse/)

 

[alent1234]

I never understand the whole "watt inflation" thing going on in PSU's now a days. Old 350watt units could actually deliver 350 watts at decent room temps. Now a "350watt" PSU seems to be rated as "1050watts!!!!11!1!*" *peak for maximum of 1.2ms. Sad thing is the 8 lb 350 watt might run that whole setup (little to close to 100% imho but still) while "750watt" units are bursting into flames. Is this like the "2000watt" home stereo systems from 10 years ago that has 1 amp fuses? (IE they never could do more than 120ish watt or they would pop the fuse/)

same concept as people buying huge SUV's that never leave the road. they want to gloat like they are cool and the best

 

[Kroze]

You have a decent, if budget, rig. Why did you choose a PSU that was only $20? 580W for $20 is laughable. If you were going to spend money on a PSU, spend it wisely and get a decent name brand for a little more.

Antec EarthWatts 500W is $50 right now after coupon code at Newegg. They have two PCI-E 6-pin power connectors, which should be enough for two HD4870s.,

CORSAIR Builder Series CX500 V2 = $57 AS & AR

Thanks for the suggestions, I just ordered the Thermaltake 750 Watts PSU. It have a 5 years warranty! So I don't have to worry about it breaking in the near future.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153136

Oh yea, FYI the 4870 needed (2) 6 pin PCIe power supply each. So I needed a power supply with (4) 6pin PCIe plugs

 

[996GT2]

Thanks for the suggestions, I just ordered the Thermaltake 750 Watts PSU. It have a 5 years warranty! So I don't have to worry about it breaking in the near future.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153136

Oh yea, FYI the 4870 needed (2) 6 pin PCIe power supply each. So I needed a power supply with (4) 6pin PCIe plugs

I hope it's not too late, but that Thermaltake TR2 is not a good power supply by any means.

If you can cancel the order, I would HIGHLY recommend you get this Corsair TX750 V2 instead. It's a MUCH better performing unit compared to the crappy HEC-built Thermaltake and only costs $10 more.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-17139021-L03C

I wasn't kidding when I said the Thermaltake TR2 RX 750W was horrible:

Thermaltake TR2 RX 750 W is, according to our methodology, a flawed product that must be avoided at all costs. It can’t deliver its labeled wattage at high temperatures, but this is not the worst of it: ripple and noise level are way above the maximum allowed when you pull 80% or more from the unit’s labeled capacity (i.e., 600 W and above), overloading your components (especially electrolytic capacitors from the motherboard and video cards), which can cause your PC to present an erratic behavior (crashes and random resets) and, under extreme conditions, damage components.

Reviewed by PSU expert Gabriel Torres at Hardwaresecrets (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-TR2-RX-750-W-Power-Supply-Review/902/9)

 

[Kroze]

Oh damn it's too late, they already shipped it. Damn you newegg for your superfast processing and shipping! lol


I was just reading all of the newegg reviews and they're all positive so i went with it. With the $20 rebate the power supply came to be $70. That's one hell of a bargain.

I'm pretty sure it's higher quality than my $20 one that just crapped out. Even if It go bad reviews, I can't imagine what the $20 PS review would look like lol.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I never understand the whole "watt inflation" thing going on in PSU's now a days. Old 350watt units could actually deliver 350 watts at decent room temps. Now a "350watt" PSU seems to be rated as "1050watts!!!!11!1!*" *peak for maximum of 1.2ms. Sad thing is the 8 lb 350 watt might run that whole setup (little to close to 100% imho but still) while "750watt" units are bursting into flames. Is this like the "2000watt" home stereo systems from 10 years ago that has 1 amp fuses? (IE they never could do more than 120ish watt or they would pop the fuse/)

Nothing has changed much. 5 years ago there were plenty of 350W units that would only output 350W if they were on fire.

 

[BoomerD]

I'm always amazed at people who will spend big bucks to build a quality computer system...then go as cheap as possible on the power supply...the heart of any computer system.

Not everyone needs a 1000 watt PSU...and most don't even need a 600 watt unit, but quality PSU's are a must...if you want your system to last and work properly.

Unfortunately, many of the "big name brands" of power supplies use crappy PSU's in their builds...Research is key when buying a power supply. Find out what company actually built the PSU before it was re-branded, and you MAY get a unit that will power your computer quietly and steadily for many years.

http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/psu_manufacturers

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=205763

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/370

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-Power-Supplies/181/1

http://www.jonnyguru.com/

 

[996GT2]

Oh damn it's too late, they already shipped it. Damn you newegg for your superfast processing and shipping! lol


I was just reading all of the newegg reviews and they're all positive so i went with it. With the $20 rebate the power supply came to be $70. That's one hell of a bargain.

I'm pretty sure it's higher quality than my $20 one that just crapped out. Even if It go bad reviews, I can't imagine what the $20 PS review would look like lol.

No doubt it's better than the $20 PS you had, but it's still far from good. Any PSU that is out of ATX spec at 80% load is horrendous IMO. If I was in your situation, I'd return the PSU unopened to newegg (they won't charge restocking fee if it's unopened) and get something that's at least decent.

With two 4870s, your system is drawing around 425-450w at full load. At those load draws the TR2 is still pushing close to the limits imposed by the ATX spec. If you overclock heavily or upgrade components in the future, the "750W" Thermaltake might not be able to handle it.

So, in the end you're really paying $70 after rebate for a power supply that can only safely deliver about 450 W of power before failing ATX specs (and having internals burn up). If that was all you needed, an Antec Neo Eco 520 would have exceeded your requirements and only costs $40 on sale. The Corsair TX750 I linked actually can deliver 750W under long-term use, something the TR2 can't even come close to doing without burning up.

HWS actually tested 2 samples of the TR2 because they thought the first one had to be defective to perform so poorly. Turns out that the second unit performed exactly the same:

According to our methodology, Thermaltake TR2 RX 750 W cannot deliver its labeled wattage. It burned after one minute delivering 750 W at a room temperature a little bit above 45º C. Thinking that we may have got a defective unit, we asked Thermaltake another sample, which burned exactly the same way. In both units the component that burned was one of the +12 V rectifiers.

 

[Kroze]

What does the certification mean? 80plus gold, silver, etc..?

 

[996GT2]

What does the certification mean? 80plus gold, silver, etc..?

Not much, really. 80+ just means the PSU meets their minimum efficiency ratings under specific testing conditions. The biggest problem with the 80+ certification is that PSUs are tested at 23C, which is an unrealistically low temperature. In real-world use, a crappy PSU that can pass the test at 23C may very well fail at the higher temperatures found inside a computer case (as demonstrated by this HWS's test of this Thermaltake, for example).

Also (from Overclock.net):

80+ means even less when it comes to a power supply's overall quality. 80+ does not make a PSU good. Efficiency is just one aspect of PSU quality. While high-end power supplies tend to be fairly efficient, not all efficient power supplies are high-end. Many shoddy manufacturers will sacrifice important things such as ripple suppression, voltage regulation, or build quality in order to make a unit that meets 80+ or higher efficiency levels, so they can slap that big 80+ label on there, because it's good marketing. Efficiency is just icing on the cake; and it doesn't matter how much icing is on there if the cake is made of rusty nails and cyanide.


Take home message? Efficiency and 80+ certification is just one aspect of a power supply's quality, not the be-all, end-all. It's worth taking note of, but you should check reviews to make sure of DC output quality (ripple/noise suppression and voltage regulation) and build quality (capacitor choice and soldering quality), as well as protections sets and aesthetics/functionality.

Some very good PSU articles here that you should check out if you want to do a little research on what's good and what's not:
http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/715889-psu-articles.html#post9110838

 

[Bryf50]

You have a decent, if budget, rig. Why did you choose a PSU that was only $20? 580W for $20 is laughable. If you were going to spend money on a PSU, spend it wisely and get a decent name brand for a little more.

Antec EarthWatts 500W is $50 right now after coupon code at Newegg. They have two PCI-E 6-pin power connectors, which should be enough for two HD4870s.,

500w should be enough but he'd be cutting it awfully close. And you'd need 4 PCI-E connectors in total so he would have to use a less than ideal setup with molex adapters. I'd go for something in the 600-650w range with 4x PCI-E 6-pin connectors.

 

[VirtualLarry]

500w should be enough but he'd be cutting it awfully close. And you'd need 4 PCI-E connectors in total so he would have to use a less than ideal setup with molex adapters. I'd go for something in the 600-650w range with 4x PCI-E 6-pin connectors.

Yeah, that suggestion was a mistake, I didn't realize that 4870s take two PCI-E 6-pin connectors each. I thought that they took one, like HD4850s.

 

[fffblackmage]

I was just reading all of the newegg reviews and they're all positive so i went with it. With the $20 rebate the power supply came to be $70. That's one hell of a bargain.

[/QUOTE]
Just like how your $20 el-cheapo PSU was "one hell of a bargain" too?

I wouldn't trust newegg reviews all that much. It's still worth taking a look, especially for recurring issues, but most people aren't particularly knowledgeable about computers (yet, for some reason, still consider themselves "experts") and, at most, will only say whether it works or not (and most probably weren't trying to run two 4870s).

I would definitely send back the Thermaltake PSU back, if possible. If you can't, well, at least it's probably better than what you had before.

 

[Viperoni]

Agreed, for just little more than that $70, you should be able to get a Corsair TX750 v2, which is a very solid unit.

 

[Kroze]

Well it's a little too late as I will be receiving the power supply today. I will keep Corsair in mind the next time I do a PC build (soon). But Right now I need to install this PS and use it as I have a clan match tonight Black Ops.

So what manufacture do you guys recommend that consistently build high quality power supply other than Corsair? Seasonic, Antec, Enermax, Coolmax, CoolerMaster?

There's a million of PS maker out there lol.

 

[996GT2]

Well it's a little too late as I will be receiving the power supply today. I will keep Corsair in mind the next time I do a PC build (soon). But Right now I need to install this PS and use it as I have a clan match tonight Black Ops.

So what manufacture do you guys recommend that consistently build high quality power supply other than Corsair? Seasonic, Antec, Enermax, Coolmax, CoolerMaster?

There's a million of PS maker out there lol.

Consistently builds a good power supply=Corsair, Seasonic. None of the power supplies made by Corsair have ever been "bad." Their worst PSU (the entry level CX series) is still a decently performing unit.

Seasonic is also consistently good, but expensive.

All of the other PSU companies have made duds from time to time, so it's hard to call them consistent. Even PC Power and Cooling, which used to be very good, has gone down in quality since being bought out by OCZ and using Sirtec as their OEM for the Silencer Mk. II series.

 

[996GT2]

Well it's a little too late as I will be receiving the power supply today. I will keep Corsair in mind the next time I do a PC build (soon). But Right now I need to install this PS and use it as I have a clan match tonight Black Ops.

So what manufacture do you guys recommend that consistently build high quality power supply other than Corsair? Seasonic, Antec, Enermax, Coolmax, CoolerMaster?

There's a million of PS maker out there lol.

Consistently builds a good power supply=Corsair, Seasonic. None of the power supplies made by Corsair have ever been "bad." Their worst PSU (the entry level CX series) is still decent.

Seasonic is also consistently good, but usually more expensive.

All of the other PSU companies have made duds from time to time, so it's hard to call them consistent. Even PC Power and Cooling, which used to be very good, has gone down in quality since being bought out by OCZ and using Sirtec as their OEM for the Silencer Mk. II series.

The general rule of thumb is this: if you don't want to do the research on whether the specific unit you are buying is good, then get a Corsair or Seasonic. Otherwise, look at reviews (and I don't mean newegg reviews) for the specific unit you are considering, not the brand.

 

[fffblackmage]

Well it's a little too late as I will be receiving the power supply today

You can always refuse shipment.

So what manufacture do you guys recommend that consistently build high quality power supply other than Corsair? Seasonic, Antec, Enermax, Coolmax, CoolerMaster?

You can never go wrong with Seasonic-branded or anything Seasonic-made (Antec NeoHE and Neo Eco, XFX).
I would say Antec makes pretty solid PSUs as of late.
I'm not sure if Enermax had any particularly bad units, but I would say they're good overall, even if a bit pricey.
As for CoolerMaster and Thermaltake, you have to look for reviews. They both have a few good models, but they're otherwise very... meh.

And I would stay away from Coolmax, Raidmax, Diablotek, Apevia....