I was going to build a new comp with a socket 939 winchester, but then i read over at overclockers.com a huge rant about how the new winchesters don't have strained silicon in them, which somehow..makes it really sensitive to voltages when overclocking which is why the stock speeds of the winchesters are 200mhz lower than their respective 754 chips... anyway apparantly AMD is prepairing a 2nd generation of the winchesters which fixes this problem and will/may have other very minor upgrades, which should be out by spring. My question is...is this correct? I heard that the winchesters overclock very well...but for how long? Should I just go with a socket 754 for now?
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1st gen winchesters no good?
- Thread starter CMAC
- Start date
post link please!!! Most of the rantings I have read are from whiners who are upset they can't get prime95 stable chips....However many at the same places have no problems...
If theese chips don't have strained silicon or SOI (whatever they are using) I would be quite surprised.....The process was in the 130nm chips it would make no sense for them not to use this as they downsize. Plus the fact without it I dont think they could have made the tranformation without what has been reported at many sites is that the same speed chips are running about 3c cooler.
I think the reports are bogus!!!
I think more and more so the week 40 plus chips are ocing to 2.5 to 2.6ghz levels that according to reviews would take at least a 2.7ghz newcastle to equal and I doubt you will hit that speed much there....
I also thik the sckt 939 offers some flexibilty ifor upgrading here why we wait for matured NF4 sli setups and for AMD to announce what they will do in the next year / year and a half with dual core chips....
Edit: the more I read the more and more it sounds like crap....I have not seen this at all....I am able to boot into windows at 2654mhz with stock vcore (1.475v set in bios, board undervolts around .07v)...I haven't seen many newcastles do that...
If theese chips don't have strained silicon or SOI (whatever they are using) I would be quite surprised.....The process was in the 130nm chips it would make no sense for them not to use this as they downsize. Plus the fact without it I dont think they could have made the tranformation without what has been reported at many sites is that the same speed chips are running about 3c cooler.
I think the reports are bogus!!!
I think more and more so the week 40 plus chips are ocing to 2.5 to 2.6ghz levels that according to reviews would take at least a 2.7ghz newcastle to equal and I doubt you will hit that speed much there....
I also thik the sckt 939 offers some flexibilty ifor upgrading here why we wait for matured NF4 sli setups and for AMD to announce what they will do in the next year / year and a half with dual core chips....
Edit: the more I read the more and more it sounds like crap....I have not seen this at all....I am able to boot into windows at 2654mhz with stock vcore (1.475v set in bios, board undervolts around .07v)...I haven't seen many newcastles do that...
its from overclockers.com...I don't think its bogus, they like amd which is why they ranted... heres link
http://overclockers.com/articles1151/
http://overclockers.com/articles1151/
Dude learn how to read...The 90nm have the same SOI technology as the newcastles...the talk is that the strained silicon will be added to next generation chips which should make them even cooler....a bunus for all...
What I disagree with the article is the errorneous remark of....
A 2.4GHz 90nm Hammer likely wouldn't be so cool, and a 2.6GHz chip almost certainly wouldn't be.
I as many have shown with stock coolers we can get reasonable temperatures now at 2.6ghz and that is with a touch of vcore....I think as it stands right now they can rpobably reliabley make 2.4ghz and 2.6ghz chips...I have seen many ppl doing 2.4ghz at default with the winnies right now with week 36 and greater chips....
What I disagree with the article is the errorneous remark of....
A 2.4GHz 90nm Hammer likely wouldn't be so cool, and a 2.6GHz chip almost certainly wouldn't be.
I as many have shown with stock coolers we can get reasonable temperatures now at 2.6ghz and that is with a touch of vcore....I think as it stands right now they can rpobably reliabley make 2.4ghz and 2.6ghz chips...I have seen many ppl doing 2.4ghz at default with the winnies right now with week 36 and greater chips....
The exciting news which you seemed to fail to grasp is when the NEW technology of Strained silicon is implemented we should see a qoute...."you could well see a 20% or more jump in maximum performance."....meaning..."A 20% improvement could mean 3-3.2GHz overclocked chips."
Also notice raodmap of this planned revisio probably likley the E0 revision everybody talks about is mid 2005....so go ahead and wait if you want...
The fact is I see nothing about syaing this is effecting the ocing of the current chips and making them sensitive to ocing..I think most here plus at places like extremesystem.com show that the winnies are doing ad good or better then the sckt 754 newcastles right now....
Also notice raodmap of this planned revisio probably likley the E0 revision everybody talks about is mid 2005....so go ahead and wait if you want...
The fact is I see nothing about syaing this is effecting the ocing of the current chips and making them sensitive to ocing..I think most here plus at places like extremesystem.com show that the winnies are doing ad good or better then the sckt 754 newcastles right now....
umm..i said nothing about SOI in my post..i was talking about just strained silicon😉
An Even Better Reason Not To Push It
IBM says the following about voltage for the 970FX:
"At the same time, the 1.3-V application condition can only be applied to products with <50,000 power-on-hours (POHs). To accommodate the reliability requirements of a 100 000-POH system, the upper voltage must be limited to 1.2 V."
In English, increase the voltage past 1.2V, and you shorten the life of the CPU considerably. No doubt the equivalent numbers for AMD are different (and higher), but this tells us that SOI is probably more sensitive to damage from excessive voltage than most.
Certainly a likely reason for AMD not to put out fast 90nm processors chewing up 1.5V, for instance.
So what happens then when you increase the voltage when overlocking?
Yeah but the comment by IBM seems weird since by their admission amd is putting out chips at 1.4v and with some mobos that is + or - another .05v and dooming them.....
Naturally as the chips downsize the voltage does need to reduce cause the smaller and smaller gates and layers are more susceptable to heat....
I guess it is true we ultimately don't know what the longevity of ocing will be at this point but if amd certifies and operating vcore range and operating heat range I don't see if we stay within 10% on the vcore and under the 65c range I don't see where it will liklely effect the lifespan of most modern cpus now anyways.....
Naturally as the chips downsize the voltage does need to reduce cause the smaller and smaller gates and layers are more susceptable to heat....
I guess it is true we ultimately don't know what the longevity of ocing will be at this point but if amd certifies and operating vcore range and operating heat range I don't see if we stay within 10% on the vcore and under the 65c range I don't see where it will liklely effect the lifespan of most modern cpus now anyways.....
It still doesn't feel like a rant to me!!!! Overall the migration to the 90nm process for AMD has been stellar. Chips are scaling good right out of the gate even without all their best technology. They achieved performance gain oevr previous models and they actually lowered the temperature or equaled it on average. For the prescott everyone of those things did not happen and therefore that pretty much sums up intels transformation....
The basic results are for the limited time the 90nm chips have been out is that they oc well and to at least levls of the newcastles in mhz. They start with a little lower vcore but for themost part air cooled users try to stay under 1.6v and optimally 1.5 for the max 10% over vid.....This is a pretty safe realm and I have to admit I have never heard of a chip frying or damaging in my years running xps, bartons, and p4's for ppl overvolting 10% or less....
Generally what happen is after 5% the vcore needs to be notch up every few fsb notches and it becomes pointless...At 10% level I am only going a few fsb before it needs a .05v boost and it runs out quickly. The ceiling for the 1.36-1.44v (range of defaults on various boards) ifrom waht i am seeing from good ocers who know what they are doing when it comes to memory, power supples, choice of mobos, and bios settings are getting them to 2.4ghz regularly....
The basic results are for the limited time the 90nm chips have been out is that they oc well and to at least levls of the newcastles in mhz. They start with a little lower vcore but for themost part air cooled users try to stay under 1.6v and optimally 1.5 for the max 10% over vid.....This is a pretty safe realm and I have to admit I have never heard of a chip frying or damaging in my years running xps, bartons, and p4's for ppl overvolting 10% or less....
Generally what happen is after 5% the vcore needs to be notch up every few fsb notches and it becomes pointless...At 10% level I am only going a few fsb before it needs a .05v boost and it runs out quickly. The ceiling for the 1.36-1.44v (range of defaults on various boards) ifrom waht i am seeing from good ocers who know what they are doing when it comes to memory, power supples, choice of mobos, and bios settings are getting them to 2.4ghz regularly....
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