1978 poll : When is rape OK?

[momeNt]

Would God have stopped if Mary said no?

So little understanding. I thank you for the laughs.

 

[momeNt]

Uh, he was making a joke.

He wasn't making a joke, he was the joke though.

 

[Zanovar]

 

[ch33zw1z]

So, 40% chance your dad raped your mom, and a 25% chance she was okay with it...

(I know the stats aren't right... but anyways)

lol!

 

[alkemyst]

With as many women I know with rape fantasies, I'd say the female numbers are higher now :hmm:

It's not rape fantasies....people believe it's simply OK to rape/be raped at times.

 

[BikeJunkie]

you would both be wrong.

Thats the kind of fantasy you wont get many women admitting to. It could be a high percentage, or low.
Theres absolutely no way to be sure.

Every single "serious" relationship I had was with a woman who had a rape fantasy (my wife included). Note that none of them had every actually been raped, and note that "rape fantasy" != "fantasize about being a victim of an ACTUAL rape."

Generally speaking, women love to be dominated and overpowered by a strong, healthy, fertile male. That, IMO, is where the fantasy comes from.

So what's your personal experience?

 

[alkemyst]

This poll has nothing to do with 'rape fantasy'.

Being dominated/a rape fantasy with someone one trusts is different.

 

[ImpulsE69]

This poll has nothing to do with 'rape fantasy'.

Being dominated/a rape fantasy with someone one trusts is different.

You didn't watch the video did you. The fantasies we are talking about have nothing to do with people they know.

It was a tongue in cheek comment, but people don't realize there are many out there...

 

[alkemyst]

You didn't watch the video did you. The fantasies we are talking about have nothing to do with people they know.

It was a tongue in cheek comment, but people don't realize there are many out there...

My comment was the poll and the subject of this thread <> rape fantasy.

 

[BikeJunkie]

My comment was the poll and the subject of this thread <> rape fantasy.

My comment is that your face sucks

 

[Iron Woode]

i was responding to this:



so what's your problem?

obvious statement was obvious.

besides I know a few women that have rape fantasies. They involved their boyfriend; not some random guy.

submissive women tend to like being treated like that.

Its not my scene though.

 

[alkemyst]

My comment is that your face sucks

kthx, mr. foreveralone.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Try reading about what rape does to the victims:
http://www.pandys.org/escapinghades/Survivors.html

 

[mikeymikec]

the truth is non-pc, so it shall be withheld.

A lot of people fantasize about killing their boss. It does not mean that this is something they seriously want to go through with.

It worries me a bit when people apparently need it pointed out that there's a world of difference between fantasy and reality.

This part has really been bugging me all morning.

What "mentality" is that? The idea that a woman may somehow be accountable for her actions?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, "NO MEANS NO" and all that...

But once upon a time, mothers used to teach their daughters not to get themselves into "vulnerable" situations. Naturally, some women then felt that if a girl let things "go too far", she deserved what happened. I think that is what you are seeing reflected in this poll.

I understand all of the victim/guilt psychology mumbo-jumbo that gets tossed around. But I think a lot of young women today walk a very dangerous line, assuming that their actions have no consequences as long as they say "No" in the end.

I think there are some important lessons that have been forgotten.

Don't mince words here, just describe a single scenario where you think a woman deserves to be raped.

 

[sao123]

 

[brainhulk]

So now the question becomes, who in this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2271937&highlight=member+pics

Looks most likely to physically force themselves sexually on someone without their consent?

 

[BarkingGhostar]

when is rape ok?

When n-1 involved in a gang rape approve of it? The "-1" being the victim.

 

[mikeymikec]

This argument occupies a weird place in my mind. I can't nail down a proper distribution of responsibility here. A very large percentage of men can get to a point of arousal that is hard to snap out of.

Unless you can show scientific evidence of this assertion, I say "crap" - it's certainly not to the point where they're in some sort of berserker mode. I'm sure my brain would be thinking "aww, crap!" if I was close and my wife asked me to stop, but I suspect I would be more surprised about her asking to stop and why rather than still being "in the moment" and finding it difficult to stop.

It's like slamming the brakes on a passenger train that has nearly reached top speed. It will stop, but you're probably going to break something in the process.

<snort> sexual arousal physics!

 

[TwiceOver]

<-- Born in 1978.

MOM!!!!!

 

[SlitheryDee]

Unless you can show scientific evidence of this assertion, I say "crap" - it's certainly not to the point where they're in some sort of berserker mode. I'm sure my brain would be thinking "aww, crap!" if I was close and my wife asked me to stop, but I suspect I would be more surprised about her asking to stop and why rather than still being "in the moment" and finding it difficult to stop.

<snort> sexual arousal physics!

Anyone would be surprised about her asking to stop. That's not really the issue here. What I'm imagining is a scenario that really blurs the line between consent and rape in the moment, but could be made to sound exactly like rape in hindsight.

Imagine a guy and a girl who have been engaged in heavy petting. The guy is heavily aroused and pushing the boundaries of what she'll let him do. Several times already she has softly mumbled something about stopping, but at the same time she remains engaged with him, allowing him to continue touching her. This scenario could go several ways.

Option 1: She could continue to make soft protests with her mouth that are belied by her actions, while the guy continues to press forward. In this scenario they end up having sex that was arguably rape, even though there was no violence involved. The girl wasn't ready for sex, and it takes a considerable toll on her mental state. Eventually she breaks up with the guy and may even openly accuse him of raping her.

Option 2: She could suddenly reach the point where she realizes she can't let him keep pressing her, at which time she shouts at him to stop while pushing him away sharply. In this scenario they don't have sex, and the guy gets the feeling of snapping back to his senses after being in a kind of fugue state. He then apologizes and she forgives him for his actions. They continue dating and eventually do have sex when she's really ready for it.

You see? The guy doesn't have to be in berzerker mode to go a little further than he should, but his arousal level is still entirely responsible for it. It's something that he has to sort of "awaken" from either through a considerable exertion of willpower or an elevated response from his partner. Those scenarios are just a hair's breadth apart from each other in terms of actions, but the results are vastly different.

 

[mikeymikec]

Why would she mumble something about stopping several times but carry on petting / allowed to be touched? It makes no sense.

Why would he carry on after she has said for him to stop several times? It makes no sense. Does he like rapey sex or consensual sex?

Are neither in possession of a normal functioning brain? Do they know each other and their limits (and ways they communicate) well? If he doesn't, he's taking an awfully stupid risk.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Why would she mumble something about stopping several times but carry on petting / allowed to be touched? It makes no sense.

Why would he carry on after she has said for him to stop several times? It makes no sense. Does he like rapey sex or consensual sex?

Are neither in possession of a normal functioning brain? Do they know each other and their limits (and ways they communicate) well? If he doesn't, he's taking an awfully stupid risk.

They're both aroused. She's got conflicting emotions about the situation. She is enjoying his attentions, but at the same time she has better control of her desires than he does. She is still able to think about the future consequences of allowing him to go all the way with her. She likes him enough to be intimate with him to an extent, and she doesn't want to cause a scene or disappoint and frustrate him. She's got the idea that she can hint strongly enough and cause him to stop on his own. He carries on because she's sending him mixed signals. He wants very badly to continue what he's doing, and her actions are telling him that she's at least partially on board with the idea.

Neither of them are really in possession of fully functioning brains at that moment. It's later that the situation resolves into what it really was in their minds.

Edit: Oh, and a quick google search found much in the way of scientific evidence supporting my assertion that arousal has negative effects on judgement. Here's one that seemed to apply.

Sexual arousal, in sum, hijacks the brain leading to a focus on immediate pleasure and gratification. Typically, after ejaculation occurs, a male then begins to consider (and often worry about) the consequences of his sexual involvements.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...r-judgment-decision-making-and-sexual-arousal

 

[mikeymikec]

If someone wants someone to stop, there's a reason for that, so no, I'm not really buying what you're saying.

The only exception I can think of is when both people aren't mentally mature enough to know the rules of the game. IMO the topic of sex ed in schools should cover the topic of consent and importance of responsibility over one's body probably with far greater emphasis than what goes in where (of course that is important but it is the tip of the iceberg compared to its potential consequences).

Your study shows nothing that no-one with a brain hadn't already considered. The question is, how much is it impaired.

 

[SlitheryDee]

If someone wants someone to stop, there's a reason for that, so no, I'm not really buying what you're saying.

I never said they didn't have a reason. What I said was that the situation can be a lot less clear than you seem to want it to be. People can have a number of different drives acting within them simultaneously. Self image, religious notions, public perception, possibility of pregnancy, love, libido, potential for embarrassment, and a number of other things can go to war with each other at the same moment in someone's mind with no clear winner.

Your study shows nothing that no-one with a brain hadn't already considered. The question is, how much is it impaired.

That's why I didn't see the need to present a study in the first place. It's common sense stuff. That study does indicate that judgement is impaired enough to cause someone to make decisions they wouldn't when not aroused. That's all it takes IMO. My main point was that they don't have to be mad with lust in the first place when the whole situation is teetering on the edge. It only has to be enough to cause them to ignore some signals while focusing on others. Even if the answer to your question is something like "Not a lot", that still may be enough.

 

[Anonemous]

I dunno, maybe in that Brian Banks story...