1974 predictions that came true

[OutHouse]

wow, amazing everything this guy said back in 1958 has come true. thoughts?

http://www.wimp.com/robertwelch/

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Citrix
wow, amazing everything this guy said back in 1958 has come true. thoughts?

http://www.wimp.com/robertwelch/

most of what he said was either obvious, or hasn't happened

from my understanding, taxes are lower, their is less government control, there was no appeasement, and most if not all of the international organizations we are in are run by us, or we were already in, there was no inflation.

the only thing he got right were the deficits and the price controls, everything else either did not happen, or happened in the opposite manner he predicted

furthermore, the price controls he mentioned had already come an gone by the time of this speech

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Citrix
wow, amazing everything this guy said back in 1958 has come true. thoughts?

http://www.wimp.com/robertwelch/

most of what he said was either obvious, or hasn't happened

from my understanding, taxes are lower, their is less government control, there was no appeasement, and most if not all of the international organizations we are in are run by us, or we were already in, there was no inflation.

the only thing he got right were the deficits and the price controls, everything else either did not happen, or happened in the opposite manner he predicted

furthermore, the price controls he mentioned had already come an gone by the time of this speech

1. no taxes are not lower you are paying higher taxes than what your parents did. you are only counting federal taxes do you people forget about city, county state taxes??

2. there is way more government today than there ever has been from city, county, and federal levels.

3. no inflation? care to explain that? did you forget about the inflation in the early 80's or the inflation/recession/depression we are in now?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Citrix
wow, amazing everything this guy said back in 1958 has come true. thoughts?

http://www.wimp.com/robertwelch/

most of what he said was either obvious, or hasn't happened

from my understanding, taxes are lower, their is less government control, there was no appeasement, and most if not all of the international organizations we are in are run by us, or we were already in, there was no inflation.

the only thing he got right were the deficits and the price controls, everything else either did not happen, or happened in the opposite manner he predicted

furthermore, the price controls he mentioned had already come an gone by the time of this speech

1. no taxes are not lower you are paying higher taxes than what your parents did. you are only counting federal taxes do you people forget about city, county state taxes??

2. there is way more government today than there ever has been from city, county, and federal levels.

3. no inflation? care to explain that? did you forget about the inflation in the early 80's or the inflation/recession/depression we are in now?

do you even know what inflation is?

the only major inflationary period in modern american history was happening while this imbecile was speaking, we certainly have not experienced any significant inflation in the last 28 years.

taxes across the board are at one of the lowest points in modern american history, at nearly all levels

there is far, far, far, far less government regulation right now that at any other point since before the great depression, although hopefully this is changing.

 

[GoPackGo]

Government spends too much money and the solution is to tax more and spend more.

 

[OutHouse]

miketheidiot: wow just wow. you cant be serious in really believing that can you?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Individual Income Taxes as a % of GDP

1974 - - - - - 8.3%

2002 - - - - - 8.3%
2003 - - - - - 7.3%
2004 - - - - - 7.0%
2005 - - - - - 7.6%
2006 - - - - - 8.0%
2007 - - - - - 8.5% (est)
2008 - - - - - 8.6% (est)


Corporation Income Taxes as a % of GDP

1974 - - - - - 2.7%

2002 - - - - - 1.5%
2003 - - - - - 1.4%
2004 - - - - - 1.2%
2005 - - - - - 1.6%
2006 - - - - - 2.3%
2007 - - - - - 2.5% (est)
2008 - - - - - 2.3% (est)



Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

(And the estimates are from the Bush Admin. We know how accurate they are.)

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Citrix
wow, amazing everything this guy said back in 1958 has come true. thoughts?

http://www.wimp.com/robertwelch/

He was an evil, misguided person, and he was broadly wrong. He spouted a lot of the far-right paranoia, and I guess the nuts might think it's come true.

Let's review.

Has American sovereignity been lost? Hardly, we're a fricking 'do as we say, not as we do' empire that dominates many nations in various ways.

The nuts think any treaty agreements - say, nuclear arms treaties - are attacks on our sovereignity.

Where are all these all-powerful international organizations he says would rule us? We aren't even in things like the International Criminal Court, though we're happy to use it for others. The World Bank? It's done little but to serve our interests, spreading our corporate dominance (as described in 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man'), and applying economic practices terrible for the masses of other nations, that we violate ourselves.

Let's use his list:

1. Wow he predicted higher government spending. Pretty tough one there. There were like what, 1% of the people who would have predicted smaller government spending?

Ironically, as I posted earlier today, JFK had fewer federal civilian employees in 1962 than there were in 1952 - a bit of a ding on his 1958 prediction.

And he says the purpose was to 'get rid of as much American money as possible'. Considering the increase in the wealth of the US after 1958, pretty far off-base.

Just fear mongering, that's all he has as the seller of paranoia.

2. Higher and then much higher taxes.

Well, let's see - corporate taxes were a far, far higher share in 1958 than they were later, going from the bulk to a fraction. The top tax rate was 91% when he spoke, later 70%, and still later 39 and finally 35%. Oops, not exactly 'correct'. As for the taxes taken in, look at the context of the growing economy; but if his point had to do with the screwing of poor and middle America while the rich grabbed the wealth, which it wasn't, he would have had a point.

3. An increasingly unbalanced budget - well, he was wrong on that one for the next decade - LBJ had the last surplue until Clinton in 1969 - but it was his political allies, starting with Reagan, who were behind the skyrocketing deficits. He can hardly blame the liberals, with Clinton reversing the huge debt of Reagan/Bush.

4. Wild inflation

While there was a peak 15 years after he spoke following the oil embargo, since Carter appointed Paul Volcker inflation has been notably low during nearly the entire period.

Wrong again.

5. Price and wage controls - again, only for one brief period, by his ally Richard Nixon. Wrong again, given their absence for nearly the entire period.

6. 'Greatly increased socialistic control over every aspect of business and our faily lives'.

This one is pure psychotic paranoia, too big to bother with a specific rebuttal. Back in his era, things like the government secretly testing LSD and Syphillis on unsuspecting Americans was done - I'd say the current culture that that was outrageous is a pretty clear move away fro his prediction of government tyranny much less 'socialism'.

7. The 'practical elimination' of state lines by Washington - it's not clear what's changed on this since he spoke. It's not like you needed a passport to cross state lines then.

I'd say the prediciton is unclear but wrong as there is little change.

8. The complete elimination of all private schools. Hardly. While public education was gratly expanded - and that's a good thing - the private system is hardly gone.

9. The American peope being bombarded with the horrors or war.

The exact opposite has happened. The American people are propagandized constantly in favor of war, with the benefits constantly hammered in ,and the 'horrors' hidden - even to the point ot the ban on returning American casualties from the media in recent years (reversed under Obama). The American people are porpagandized FOR war.

He also said the Americans would be propagandized to want peace only on communist terms. He sounds like the idiot he was, now, for such garbage.

He was a warmonger, pure and simple.

10. A claim the US would surrender. Utter BS.

Next he calls for isolationism, opposing a 'small cabal of conspirators' who wanted us getting involved in wars with other nations. Gee, which party fits that?

Then he advocates the nonsense right views - out of the UN, gold standard, cut government by half or more, eliminate all foreign military bases, get government out of all kinds of things (far more than a hundred areas) by a 'population education', and then classic demagoguery to 'patriots' and fluffy music playing for them to follow his call.

What crap. What an enemy of the US.

 

[sandorski]

dude was correct on a couple points, wrong on most points

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: Citrix
miketheidiot: wow just wow. you cant be serious in really believing that can you?

I thought I entered the twilight zone when I read that.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
do you even know what inflation is?

the only major inflationary period in modern american history was happening while this imbecile was speaking, we certainly have not experienced any significant inflation in the last 28 years.

:laugh: Are you fucking kidding me? :laugh:

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Citrix
wow, amazing everything this guy said back in 1958 has come true. thoughts?

http://www.wimp.com/robertwelch/

He was an evil, misguided person, and he was broadly wrong. He spouted a lot of the far-right paranoia, and I guess the nuts might think it's come true.

Let's review.

Has American sovereignity been lost? Hardly, we're a fricking 'do as we say, not as we do' empire that dominates many nations in various ways.

The nuts think any treaty agreements - say, nuclear arms treaties - are attacks on our sovereignity.

Where are all these all-powerful international organizations he says would rule us? We aren't even in things like the International Criminal Court, though we're happy to use it for others. The World Bank? It's done little but to serve our interests, spreading our corporate dominance (as described in 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man'), and applying economic practices terrible for the masses of other nations, that we violate ourselves.

Let's use his list:

1. Wow he predicted higher government spending. Pretty tough one there. There were like what, 1% of the people who would have predicted smaller government spending?

Ironically, as I posted earlier today, JFK had fewer federal civilian employees in 1962 than there were in 1952 - a bit of a ding on his 1958 prediction.

And he says the purpose was to 'get rid of as much American money as possible'. Considering the increase in the wealth of the US after 1958, pretty far off-base.

Just fear mongering, that's all he has as the seller of paranoia.

2. Higher and then much higher taxes.

Well, let's see - corporate taxes were a far, far higher share in 1958 than they were later, going from the bulk to a fraction. The top tax rate was 91% when he spoke, later 70%, and still later 39 and finally 35%. Oops, not exactly 'correct'. As for the taxes taken in, look at the context of the growing economy; but if his point had to do with the screwing of poor and middle America while the rich grabbed the wealth, which it wasn't, he would have had a point.

3. An increasingly unbalanced budget - well, he was wrong on that one for the next decade - LBJ had the last surplue until Clinton in 1969 - but it was his political allies, starting with Reagan, who were behind the skyrocketing deficits. He can hardly blame the liberals, with Clinton reversing the huge debt of Reagan/Bush.

4. Wild inflation

While there was a peak 15 years after he spoke following the oil embargo, since Carter appointed Paul Volcker inflation has been notably low during nearly the entire period.

Wrong again.

5. Price and wage controls - again, only for one brief period, by his ally Richard Nixon. Wrong again, given their absence for nearly the entire period.

6. 'Greatly increased socialistic control over every aspect of business and our faily lives'.

This one is pure psychotic paranoia, too big to bother with a specific rebuttal. Back in his era, things like the government secretly testing LSD and Syphillis on unsuspecting Americans was done - I'd say the current culture that that was outrageous is a pretty clear move away fro his prediction of government tyranny much less 'socialism'.

7. The 'practical elimination' of state lines by Washington - it's not clear what's changed on this since he spoke. It's not like you needed a passport to cross state lines then.

I'd say the prediciton is unclear but wrong as there is little change.

8. The complete elimination of all private schools. Hardly. While public education was gratly expanded - and that's a good thing - the private system is hardly gone.

9. The American peope being bombarded with the horrors or war.

The exact opposite has happened. The American people are propagandized constantly in favor of war, with the benefits constantly hammered in ,and the 'horrors' hidden - even to the point ot the ban on returning American casualties from the media in recent years (reversed under Obama). The American people are porpagandized FOR war.

He also said the Americans would be propagandized to want peace only on communist terms. He sounds like the idiot he was, now, for such garbage.

He was a warmonger, pure and simple.

10. A claim the US would surrender. Utter BS.

Next he calls for isolationism, opposing a 'small cabal of conspirators' who wanted us getting involved in wars with other nations. Gee, which party fits that?

Then he advocates the nonsense right views - out of the UN, gold standard, cut government by half or more, eliminate all foreign military bases, get government out of all kinds of things (far more than a hundred areas) by a 'population education', and then classic demagoguery to 'patriots' and fluffy music playing for them to follow his call.

What crap. What an enemy of the US.

1. The Government is spending more money...and not because of inflation - they spend more on more crap.

2. Look at the gas tax, the cigarette taxes...its not just income taxes, Social Security is a TAX. and more is on the way.

3. Hmm Trillions of debt and almost 2 Trillion deficit for just this year - seems right to me. Oh - just because republicans called themselves conservatives doesn't mean they were...they weren't

4. Coming soon to a country near you...

5. Coming soon to a country near you...

** - we will be paying the piper for 20 years of wild credit - oh and you want proof of inflation going wild...look at housing.

6. Boiling frog effect - people aren't seeing it as it happens - just ask Miss California

7. US Gov't exceeding its Constitutional Authority. Do I need to explain that one?

8. Is this a work in progress? not sure

9. During Bush there were WAY more anti-war rallys than pro-war

For 10 you said:"Then he advocates the nonsense right views - out of the UN, gold standard, cut government by half or more, eliminate all foreign military bases, get government out of all kinds of things (far more than a hundred areas) by a 'population education', and then classic demagoguery to 'patriots' and fluffy music playing for them to follow his call."

The gold standard is bad?
The government is too big now.
I guess we are the worlds police if you dont agree with bring the troops home.

Our nation has been on spending binge for 70 years. Its got to stop sometime....

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
do you even know what inflation is?

the only major inflationary period in modern american history was happening while this imbecile was speaking, we certainly have not experienced any significant inflation in the last 28 years.

:laugh: Are you fucking kidding me? :laugh:

Go look up the historic US inflation rate over the last century, and then the inflation rate over the last 25 years, and then post the info.

 

[Craig234]

I really covered the predictable post byt GoPackGo here:

He spouted a lot of the far-right paranoia, and I guess the nuts might think it's come true.

I'll moderate the word 'nut' in this case to 'right-wing person'.

But there were two points to add to:

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
6. Boiling frog effect - people aren't seeing it as it happens - just ask Miss California[/q

So, your #1 example of the socialist domination of every aspect of your life, is that in modern times, the public has increasingly supported *removing* the government's discrimination against gays' equal righ to get married? What socialist government action happened to Miss California, exactly, for her opinion?

This really shows the perversity of your side - war is peace - that *reducing* the government's discrimination against a group is 'socialist control over your life'.

9. During Bush there were WAY more anti-war rallys than pro-war

First, the topic is the *messaging from the government* - and perhaps the media.

The messaging from both is hugely pro-war. But there is a 'forest and trees' issue, which blinds you to how you are propagandized.

You should read Chris Hedges' "War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning" before you say anything else abou tthis.

On the other points:

The gold standard is bad?

Yes, there are good reasons it was ended. You can read up on them easily.

Our nation has been on spending binge for 70 years. Its got to stop sometime....

We partly agree, but would probably cut different things. I can point to all kinds of corporate subsidies, military spending, intelligence agency spending, etc. to cut.

I'd also cut the interest on our national debt, by reducing the debt.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
do you even know what inflation is?

the only major inflationary period in modern american history was happening while this imbecile was speaking, we certainly have not experienced any significant inflation in the last 28 years.

:laugh: Are you fucking kidding me? :laugh:

Go look up the historic US inflation rate over the last century, and then the inflation rate over the last 25 years, and then post the info.

Well, it would depend on how you calculate and define inflation.

I mean, how much was the average home in 1970? How much did a 6pack of coke cost in 1970? Gallon of gasoline? Health insurance? Sure incomes have risen, too, but to the same degree? Aren't you one to complain about the concentration of wealth, the shrinking middle class?

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Citrix
miketheidiot: wow just wow. you cant be serious in really believing that can you?

He's right unless you don't know what inflation is. Annualized inflation has been very, very stable for a quarter century. Hell, we experienced slight deflation just over the last 12 months. It's nowhere near a problem currently unless you can't add numbers.

In terms of regulation, there's far more of it in certain sectors and non-existent regulation in other sectors. On the aggregate it's hard to say either way, or at least I haven't seen such a measurement yet of total regulation. My feeling is that it's definitely higher on the whole in more visible industry and scarce in less prominent financial industry (CDS/CDO and hedge fund regulation).

 

[smashp]

William F Buckley even said this guy was a wacked out loon.

He accused FDR and Truman of Being used by the Communists and Accused Eisenhower Of Being a communist Plant, stooge, and frontman

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: Citrix
miketheidiot: wow just wow. you cant be serious in really believing that can you?

Mike's name explains it all...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Citrix
wow, amazing everything this guy said back in 1958 has come true. thoughts?

http://www.wimp.com/robertwelch/

Funny this guy should call for gold backed currency in 1974 when that system collapsed 2 years prior...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
do you even know what inflation is?

the only major inflationary period in modern american history was happening while this imbecile was speaking, we certainly have not experienced any significant inflation in the last 28 years.

:laugh: Are you fucking kidding me? :laugh:

Go look up the historic US inflation rate over the last century, and then the inflation rate over the last 25 years, and then post the info.

Well, it would depend on how you calculate and define inflation.

I mean, how much was the average home in 1970? How much did a 6pack of coke cost in 1970? Gallon of gasoline? Health insurance? Sure incomes have risen, too, but to the same degree? Aren't you one to complain about the concentration of wealth, the shrinking middle class?

Your ignorance is showing. BLS maintains and adjusts the typical/average consumer goods basket that the CPI is calculated from. That is for example the recent CPI baskets would include sports drinks, cell phones, interwebs and so on, where as the 70s CPI would have bell bottom jeans or polyester suits.

Please educate yourself on the topic before speaking:
FAQ

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
do you even know what inflation is?

the only major inflationary period in modern american history was happening while this imbecile was speaking, we certainly have not experienced any significant inflation in the last 28 years.

:laugh: Are you fucking kidding me? :laugh:

Go look up the historic US inflation rate over the last century, and then the inflation rate over the last 25 years, and then post the info.

Well, it would depend on how you calculate and define inflation.

I mean, how much was the average home in 1970? How much did a 6pack of coke cost in 1970? Gallon of gasoline? Health insurance? Sure incomes have risen, too, but to the same degree? Aren't you one to complain about the concentration of wealth, the shrinking middle class?

Your ignorance is showing. BLS maintains and adjusts the typical/average consumer goods basket that the CPI is calculated from. That is for example the recent CPI baskets would include sports drinks, cell phones, interwebs and so on, where as the 70s CPI would have bell bottom jeans or polyester suits.

Please educate yourself on the topic before speaking:
FAQ

Oh, I imagine government has zero incentive to misrepresent the numbers for inflation.

 

[First]

Bahaha :laugh:

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Evan
Bahaha :laugh:

BAHAHA :laugh:

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan
Bahaha :laugh:

The government uses CPI to calculate cost of living increases which effects social security payments. SS was 21% of our 2008 Federal budget. Now you are going to tell me that government has no incentive to fudge CPI?

Since you are interested in handing out hats, here's one specially designed for you. :laugh:

 

[First]

^ lmao. CPI wasn't even originally developed by gov't officials, it was a direct (or technically indirect) result of research done by independent economists jackass, including Friedman and Samuelson. It has been used by administrations on both sides of the political spectrum for decades and several different Fed chairmen. Yet none of them have come out and revealed this conspiracy to fudge inflation #'s? rofl, no wonder most people ignore you and your threads. Keep linking to racist bigots like Rockwell though, it merely adds to the nutter element 90% of the board already ignores next to the 9/11 Truthers. :laugh: