JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
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TridenT
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2006
- 16,800
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TehMac
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2006
- 9,976
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JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
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TehMac
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2006
- 9,976
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Well, you've gotten hard 15 times in this thread for one thing.
Don't make fun of my lifestyle. Besides, these are classic muscle cars. And I <3 V8 engines, so just thinking about putting in a new V8, or rebuilding an old V8 or anything like that is really hot.
- Jan 23, 2001
- 7,715
- 31
- 91
Alright ladies, as promised here's an update on the tranny work.
Last night I replaced the throttle valve cable with the new one I ordered up. Quite a job as I had to drain the fluid and drop the pan to get to the connection inside the transmission case. Took about 5.5 hours from start to finish. I could probably do it in three or four now that I know what to do. A lot of time was spent figuring out how to get at things and how to remove the existing one. The TSm gives you like a paragraph explaining it with no pictures, lol.
-First step, jack the car up!
- Next I pulled the filler tube off the pan to drain it. Cleaned the outside of the pan as best I could. When it comes to work on transmissions I've always heard clean is king. You don't want to get any grime or grit up in there or you'll score parts and ruin it when you start the car up and run it for the first time. So I took my time and worked slowly to ensure I didn't get crud into the internals of the transmission.
- Once it drained, dropped the pan and removed the filter. It's a fiber type filter and I had bought a replacement for it however the replacement is the wrong one. Turns out it was for the other automatic transmission they used that year. I found the right one online today now that I knew what it was supposed to look like. It's actually a filter kit for a Ford FMX transmission which after some research I found out Ford sourced from Borg Warner and the case and extension housing, except for the internals, are the same as the Flash-o-matic in my car.
- I cleaned the pan throughly once it was off the car. The fluid in the transmission was clean since I changed it when I did the motor swap. There was some nice grey black residue in the bottom of the pan though. Dropped the new gasket on there to make sure it lined up.
- Now for the hard part. Getting the throttle cable disconnected from the cam inside the transmission case. The manual wasn't too clear on this part and after visually inspecting, it looked like I might have to drop the take the control valve assembly and pumps out to get to where the snap ring on the cable end attached to the linkage connected to the cam. After puzzling over this for a while, I saw there was a bolt right next to where the cable enters the transmission case and had an "aha!" moment. That bolt presses the flange on the cable against the case holding it in. So working in a hole with about 4inches of space, I got that bolt out and had the cable flange loose from the casing.
Here's the opening between the frame rail and the transmission where the cable comes in, TIGHT!
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableLocation.jpg
- So now I was fairly certain that I should be able to disconnect the linkage on the end of the cable from the pressure valve cam inside the transmission. I just couldn't figure out how to do it. The linkage for the shifter arm comes right through the side of the case next to it and it holds that linkage in the hole on the cam. Went back to the TSM and had another "aha!" moment. It said "depress the pressure cylinder and rotate the cam past it". I hadto push down on the little cylinder that the cam presses against, to push it in further and out of the way of the cam to rotate fully past it exposing the linkage in it's slot. Here's some pics showing it:
Location of the cam and pressure valve cylinder in the case:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/LocationInCase.jpg
Closeup of the cam
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Cam.jpg
Cam from side with hole for throttle cable linkage (after the linkage was disconnected)
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Cam2.jpg
- Once I had the linkage disconnected I was able to remove the cable. This all took about 3.5 hours. Whew. Putting it back together was easier. Here are some pics of the cables so you can see what I was talking about, having broken the threaded end.
Old cable and new cable
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Old-NewTVCable.jpg
Cable linkage attaches to the end of the cable via a snap ring/clip.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableLinkage.jpg
Broken threaded end of old cable versus new cable
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableProblem.jpg
New cable with linkage attached
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/NewCableAssmbled.jpg
-At this point I just needed to put the new cable back in, re-attach it to the cam, ensure everything was moving freely and button the transmission back up. I got it all back together without further snags and finished cleaning up around 1:30am. Long night.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/BackTogether.jpg
I'm going to drop the pan again to put the new filter in when it comes so I didn't put the filler tube back on yet or refill it with fluid. I wanted to get it all covered back up though so nothing would get into the internals of transmission.
Mission accomplished! Next is finishing my jury rigged connection between the throttle arm on the carb and the new throttle cable.
Last night I replaced the throttle valve cable with the new one I ordered up. Quite a job as I had to drain the fluid and drop the pan to get to the connection inside the transmission case. Took about 5.5 hours from start to finish. I could probably do it in three or four now that I know what to do. A lot of time was spent figuring out how to get at things and how to remove the existing one. The TSm gives you like a paragraph explaining it with no pictures, lol.
-First step, jack the car up!
- Next I pulled the filler tube off the pan to drain it. Cleaned the outside of the pan as best I could. When it comes to work on transmissions I've always heard clean is king. You don't want to get any grime or grit up in there or you'll score parts and ruin it when you start the car up and run it for the first time. So I took my time and worked slowly to ensure I didn't get crud into the internals of the transmission.
- Once it drained, dropped the pan and removed the filter. It's a fiber type filter and I had bought a replacement for it however the replacement is the wrong one. Turns out it was for the other automatic transmission they used that year. I found the right one online today now that I knew what it was supposed to look like. It's actually a filter kit for a Ford FMX transmission which after some research I found out Ford sourced from Borg Warner and the case and extension housing, except for the internals, are the same as the Flash-o-matic in my car.
- I cleaned the pan throughly once it was off the car. The fluid in the transmission was clean since I changed it when I did the motor swap. There was some nice grey black residue in the bottom of the pan though. Dropped the new gasket on there to make sure it lined up.
- Now for the hard part. Getting the throttle cable disconnected from the cam inside the transmission case. The manual wasn't too clear on this part and after visually inspecting, it looked like I might have to drop the take the control valve assembly and pumps out to get to where the snap ring on the cable end attached to the linkage connected to the cam. After puzzling over this for a while, I saw there was a bolt right next to where the cable enters the transmission case and had an "aha!" moment. That bolt presses the flange on the cable against the case holding it in. So working in a hole with about 4inches of space, I got that bolt out and had the cable flange loose from the casing.
Here's the opening between the frame rail and the transmission where the cable comes in, TIGHT!
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableLocation.jpg
- So now I was fairly certain that I should be able to disconnect the linkage on the end of the cable from the pressure valve cam inside the transmission. I just couldn't figure out how to do it. The linkage for the shifter arm comes right through the side of the case next to it and it holds that linkage in the hole on the cam. Went back to the TSM and had another "aha!" moment. It said "depress the pressure cylinder and rotate the cam past it". I hadto push down on the little cylinder that the cam presses against, to push it in further and out of the way of the cam to rotate fully past it exposing the linkage in it's slot. Here's some pics showing it:
Location of the cam and pressure valve cylinder in the case:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/LocationInCase.jpg
Closeup of the cam
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Cam.jpg
Cam from side with hole for throttle cable linkage (after the linkage was disconnected)
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Cam2.jpg
- Once I had the linkage disconnected I was able to remove the cable. This all took about 3.5 hours. Whew. Putting it back together was easier. Here are some pics of the cables so you can see what I was talking about, having broken the threaded end.
Old cable and new cable
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Old-NewTVCable.jpg
Cable linkage attaches to the end of the cable via a snap ring/clip.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableLinkage.jpg
Broken threaded end of old cable versus new cable
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableProblem.jpg
New cable with linkage attached
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/NewCableAssmbled.jpg
-At this point I just needed to put the new cable back in, re-attach it to the cam, ensure everything was moving freely and button the transmission back up. I got it all back together without further snags and finished cleaning up around 1:30am. Long night.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/BackTogether.jpg
I'm going to drop the pan again to put the new filter in when it comes so I didn't put the filler tube back on yet or refill it with fluid. I wanted to get it all covered back up though so nothing would get into the internals of transmission.
Mission accomplished! Next is finishing my jury rigged connection between the throttle arm on the carb and the new throttle cable.
compman25
Diamond Member
- Jan 12, 2006
- 3,767
- 2
- 81
Alright ladies, as promised here's an update on the tranny work.
Last night I replaced the throttle valve cable with the new one I ordered up. Quite a job as I had to drain the fluid and drop the pan to get to the connection inside the transmission case. Took about 5.5 hours from start to finish. I could probably do it in three or four now that I know what to do. A lot of time was spent figuring out how to get at things and how to remove the existing one. The TSm gives you like a paragraph explaining it with no pictures, lol.
-First step, jack the car up!
- Next I pulled the filler tube off the pan to drain it. Cleaned the outside of the pan as best I could. When it comes to work on transmissions I've always heard clean is king. You don't want to get any grime or grit up in there or you'll score parts and ruin it when you start the car up and run it for the first time. So I took my time and worked slowly to ensure I didn't get crud into the internals of the transmission.
- Once it drained, dropped the pan and removed the filter. It's a fiber type filter and I had bought a replacement for it however the replacement is the wrong one. Turns out it was for the other automatic transmission they used that year. I found the right one online today now that I knew what it was supposed to look like. It's actually a filter kit for a Ford FMX transmission which after some research I found out Ford sourced from Borg Warner and the case and extension housing, except for the internals, are the same as the Flash-o-matic in my car.
- I cleaned the pan throughly once it was off the car. The fluid in the transmission was clean since I changed it when I did the motor swap. There was some nice grey black residue in the bottom of the pan though. Dropped the new gasket on there to make sure it lined up.
- Now for the hard part. Getting the throttle cable disconnected from the cam inside the transmission case. The manual wasn't too clear on this part and after visually inspecting, it looked like I might have to drop the take the control valve assembly and pumps out to get to where the snap ring on the cable end attached to the linkage connected to the cam. After puzzling over this for a while, I saw there was a bolt right next to where the cable enters the transmission case and had an "aha!" moment. That bolt presses the flange on the cable against the case holding it in. So working in a hole with about 4inches of space, I got that bolt out and had the cable flange loose from the casing.
Here's the opening between the frame rail and the transmission where the cable comes in, TIGHT!
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableLocation.jpg
- So now I was fairly certain that I should be able to disconnect the linkage on the end of the cable from the pressure valve cam inside the transmission. I just couldn't figure out how to do it. The linkage for the shifter arm comes right through the side of the case next to it and it holds that linkage in the hole on the cam. Went back to the TSM and had another "aha!" moment. It said "depress the pressure cylinder and rotate the cam past it". I hadto push down on the little cylinder that the cam presses against, to push it in further and out of the way of the cam to rotate fully past it exposing the linkage in it's slot. Here's some pics showing it:
Location of the cam and pressure valve cylinder in the case:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/LocationInCase.jpg
Closeup of the cam
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Cam.jpg
Cam from side with hole for throttle cable linkage (after the linkage was disconnected)
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Cam2.jpg
- Once I had the linkage disconnected I was able to remove the cable. This all took about 3.5 hours. Whew. Putting it back together was easier. Here are some pics of the cables so you can see what I was talking about, having broken the threaded end.
Old cable and new cable
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/Old-NewTVCable.jpg
Cable linkage attaches to the end of the cable via a snap ring/clip.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableLinkage.jpg
Broken threaded end of old cable versus new cable
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/CableProblem.jpg
New cable with linkage attached
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/NewCableAssmbled.jpg
-At this point I just needed to put the new cable back in, re-attach it to the cam, ensure everything was moving freely and button the transmission back up. I got it all back together without further snags and finished cleaning up around 1:30am. Long night.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/BackTogether.jpg
I'm going to drop the pan again to put the new filter in when it comes so I didn't put the filler tube back on yet or refill it with fluid. I wanted to get it all covered back up though so nothing would get into the internals of transmission.
Mission accomplished! Next is finishing my jury rigged connection between the throttle arm on the carb and the new throttle cable.
Does the throttle cable really go the transmission on that car?
- Jan 23, 2001
- 7,715
- 31
- 91
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't understand your question. No, the throttle is connected to the accelerator pedal on the car with solid linkages. No throttle cable. The cable I'm talking about here is sort of like a kick down cable, but it's different on this car.
Well what I was noticing was the transmission was slipping when I had the car on a hill after I swapped the engine and transmission into my car. Most cables connected between the transmission and the carburetor just control kick down so when you press the gas it will tell the transmission to down shift. So I didn't think this cable was really necessary until I was going to put the car on the road. For moving the car around the driveway it should be fine.
Well looking at the TSM I read that the cable in this car actually controls the pressure the pump outputs inside the transmission. So if the pump wasn't bumping up the PSI when I was stepping on the gas pedal, I'm thinking that would definitely cause the transmission to slip under load. So my goal is to replace the cable and get it hooked up with a linkage to the new carb to test my theory out. Replacing the cable was the hard part. Now I just have to build a linkage that works.
Tonight I was looking at all the fluid on outside of the transmission and realized that it wasn't all just from a leaky pan gasket. Looks like the new steel lines I ran a couple years ago for the transmission inter-cooler were leaking. Taking them off and checking them I realized that I made them back when I was living home and they were only single flared. My dad only had a single flare tubing tool and I didn't know at that time any lines under a good deal of pressure ought to be double flared. Brake lines, transmission cooler lines, etc.
Decided to pull those off and redo the flares now that I've got the right tool. With the transmission drained its a good time to mess with these. I bought new rubber hoses that connect the hard lines to the radiator to replace the old dry rotted ones and figured I'd put those on tonight too. I took a couple pics of the work, just got to get them uploaded. Probably post them tomorrow.
Last edited:
Tristicus
Diamond Member
- Jan 23, 2001
- 7,715
- 31
- 91
Here's a couple pics from the work last night putting on the new hoses and re-flaring the fittings on the steel lines.
- Tool for creating the double flared ends. This thing is pretty cool. Will do a couple different sizes of tubing. Those of you not familiar with this process, you clamp the tubing into the jig. Then insert a die into the end of the tube and run that punch down on it to crush the tubing into the correct shape for the first flare. Then you remove the die and run the punch all the way down by itself to complete the second flare. I got this one from Eastwood I think. Works great.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/FlaringTool.jpg
- After the first flare
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/TubingFlared.jpg
- Nice double flared end
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/DoubleFlare.jpg
- The difference between single flared and double flared
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/SingleVsDoubleFlare.jpg
- New hoses
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/NewTransHoses2.jpg
- Everything re-installed
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/NewTransHoses.jpg
The one on the left is a little taut. I might see if I can take some of the tension off that hose. Might try shortening up the other one a little bit too. Still waiting for the tranny filter so I've got time to play with them a little bit.
- Tool for creating the double flared ends. This thing is pretty cool. Will do a couple different sizes of tubing. Those of you not familiar with this process, you clamp the tubing into the jig. Then insert a die into the end of the tube and run that punch down on it to crush the tubing into the correct shape for the first flare. Then you remove the die and run the punch all the way down by itself to complete the second flare. I got this one from Eastwood I think. Works great.
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/FlaringTool.jpg
- After the first flare
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/TubingFlared.jpg
- Nice double flared end
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/DoubleFlare.jpg
- The difference between single flared and double flared
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/SingleVsDoubleFlare.jpg
- New hoses
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/NewTransHoses2.jpg
- Everything re-installed
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/amcrambler/NewTransHoses.jpg
The one on the left is a little taut. I might see if I can take some of the tension off that hose. Might try shortening up the other one a little bit too. Still waiting for the tranny filter so I've got time to play with them a little bit.
- Jan 23, 2001
- 7,715
- 31
- 91
If the in-post pictures are bothering you guys, I can just link them. I know that tends to stretch the posts out making for more scrolling. Probably kills Anands bandwidth too. And then you get someone who quotes the post and it happens again. Sorry...
Tristicus
Diamond Member
No, it bothers me when someone quotes a long ass message on a 1024x768 screen complete with pictures when my view is already cluttered with the sidebar.
I have pics turned off, so I didn't even notice them. But I guess since you're still on dial up it would suck to see the pics twice.
Read above, and go ahead and think you're being clever with that remark, but it's damn stupid to quote that.
- Jan 23, 2001
- 7,715
- 31
- 91
Update: The woman was watching Grey's Anatomy (barf) last night with her girlfriend and had the tv monopolized so I worked on the car.
- The correct transmission filter arrived in the mail yesterday. I pulled the pan back off, installed it and buttoned everything back up. Put the filler tube back on and put some ATF back in.
-The procedure for refilling calls for putting in 5 quarts then starting the car and bringing it up to operating temperature, while idling in neutral, and then add whatever remaining fluid is needed to bring it up to the fill level. Only problem is I still hadn't put the new ignition coil in yet, so I wasn't going to be able to start it up lol.
- I mounted the new coil and connected the wires up. Reconnected the temp sensor wire which I've had disconnected for a while and called it quits for the night.
Tonight I'll reconnect the shifter linkage under the car, take it off the jack stands and fire it up. Also while browsing EBay last night I found an original correct carburetor for the car. It's a Holley 4150 four barrel with the correct list number, rebuilt and ready to go. The $145 it cost will be worth it to not have to mess around figuring out a linkage for the throttle valve cable. With this carb everything should bolt right up. Wish I could have found it 5 years ago when I was shopping carbs.
- The correct transmission filter arrived in the mail yesterday. I pulled the pan back off, installed it and buttoned everything back up. Put the filler tube back on and put some ATF back in.
-The procedure for refilling calls for putting in 5 quarts then starting the car and bringing it up to operating temperature, while idling in neutral, and then add whatever remaining fluid is needed to bring it up to the fill level. Only problem is I still hadn't put the new ignition coil in yet, so I wasn't going to be able to start it up lol.
- I mounted the new coil and connected the wires up. Reconnected the temp sensor wire which I've had disconnected for a while and called it quits for the night.
Tonight I'll reconnect the shifter linkage under the car, take it off the jack stands and fire it up. Also while browsing EBay last night I found an original correct carburetor for the car. It's a Holley 4150 four barrel with the correct list number, rebuilt and ready to go. The $145 it cost will be worth it to not have to mess around figuring out a linkage for the throttle valve cable. With this carb everything should bolt right up. Wish I could have found it 5 years ago when I was shopping carbs.
Last edited:
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
What are you going to do with the body? Man, it looks like there's a lot of rust in that car. That's a lot of work to put right.
franksta
Golden Member
- Jun 6, 2001
- 1,967
- 6
- 81
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
The pics from when it was running look a lot better than it looks today. Seems to be a lot of waves along the lower rear quarter panels and doors not to mention all the rust in the interior floor pans. I've got to wonder how the trunk looks. For all the time he's spending on the motor I'd think he'd want to address the rust first.
- Jan 23, 2001
- 7,715
- 31
- 91
Yeah she's a bit of a rust bucket. That right rear quarter has been all bondo since before I got the car. My brother carved all the rust out and rebuilt the fender out of bondo and metal mesh back in the 80's. He wasn't a body man so it was pretty wavy looking. He matched the paint pretty well though so after it was painted, from 20 feet away you couldn't see it.
I wanted to redo it a little cleaner so I cut all that out and used fiber glass and bondo to rebuild the fender. Unfortunately I did not get it painted before I had to store it. I only had time to put some rattle can primer on it. It since has started peeling and looks like shit but it will clean up with a couple of swipes of sand paper. Now that I've actually got some money I was debating trying my hand at knocking together a patch panel out of sheet metal and buying a welder but that's a shit ton of work.
Floor pans in the front are fucked. I've got to replace those. The trunk isn't bad, maybe a couple of thin spots that I can cut out and patch. That undercoating did a pretty good job protecting the car considering it was driven in Minnesota and then New York winters.
The body work isn't so much a big worry as the transmission. Finding a Borg Warner automatic for this car is hard. I'd be looking at buying a whole parts car all over again or getting it rebuilt if I can't get it working right. So I really wanted to troubleshoot it and make sure I can get it working. If I can't I'm going to have to pull the transmission. That will take some doing.
are you still looking for a 66 327?? I have a running low mileage 9.7-1 compression 4 bbl complete still in car from a 66 marlin-kurt - kuhlmey1966@msn.com
- Jan 23, 2001
- 7,715
- 31
- 91
I'm going to stick with my 287 for now thanks though.
Its been a while since I updated the project thread here. I've been working on the car on and off for a while now and I've got some progress to post. As some of you may know from the other thread I finally got a welder so I can start tackling some of the rust issues. I'm teaching myself to weld by fabbing up a new exhaust. Once I'm competent I'll tackle the floor pans. Jules will be happy to know I've got two new pans ready to go in.
The floor pan rust doesn't look too bad but I've got to get the seats and the carpet out of the car and start wire wheeling the paint and sealer off the floor to get a good idea of how bad it is. The car has a ton of undercoating underneath so I can't easily tell from below either. I did get an air compressor for Christmas which has been a huge help as I can now use air tools for this work.
Other progress has been the brakes. I replaced everything. New master cylinder and new brake lines bent by hand. New wheel cylinders, bearings and axle seals on the rears and the piece de resistance a disk brake conversion on the fronts, new bearings, rotors for a Ford Ranger and calipers for a Chevy Celebrity.
New Master
Scarebird Disc Brake Conversion Kit
The last bit was getting the connection of the TPV cable to the carburetor just right. Ended up having a company fabricate a bracket for me to mount the linkage. The stock bracket for the 287 did not line the cable up correctly with the 4 barrel carb and intake I swapped in from a 327. Turns out the 327 cars had longer throttle cables. So I went to these guys http://www.emachineshop.com/ and designed the part I needed in their CAD software and they made it for be for about $75 bucks.
My design:
The end result
Carb linkage hooked up with new bracket
Well that's pretty much everything since last summer. I've been working on the car as time allows. Wish I had more time to spend on it so I could get it all done and on the road but that's the way it goes.
AMC out
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