17,000,000 College-Educated Americans Are Wasting Their Degree On Menial Jobs

[Zebo]

There's a good chance that the server pouring your coffee and the parking attendant valeting your car has a bachelor's degree, or even a doctoral degree.

Richard Vedder at The Chronicle found some frightening statistics on the menial jobs college graduates are taking:

17,000,000 college educated Americans have jobs that they are overqualified for, according to the BLS.

Over 482,000 college-educated Americans are customer service representatives and over 100,000 are maids and janitors; 5,057 of whom have a Ph.D.

http://www.businessinsider.com/college-educated-wasting-degree-2010-10

Wonder who is going to repay those student loans? Another bubble? I think so. Hard to pay off 100K on $10 an hour.

Also, Remember how they pimped offshoring with just get more education? Worked well I see. I knew that was a ruse at the time because design, writing and engineering will eventually follow factory for logistical reasons if nothing else. Who has not read a power supply or motherboard manual in broken English? Today many companies just have a US marketing force.

Anyway remember this next time you put food on Chinese tables. It's not cheaper. You may think it is but you have not paid unemployment taxes, food stamp taxes, unpaid student loans yet for Americans not working or under working.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I dunno... there are a lot of really worthless degrees out there. My ex had a bachelors in 'classical literature'

I think if you narrowed it down to degrees that had real life application you'd see that most of them had relative work.

 

[Zebo]

I don't think anything is worthless I mean Shakespeare festivals for example are cool as hell. That said, supply should meet demand if you want a job doing that. We could increase supply of almost all things by producing what we consume or heaven forbid be a net exporter like Germany or China.

 

[Murloc]

there are so many useless bachelors, this is no shit.

 

[dawp]

there are so many useless bachelors, this is no shit.

yup, all the do is chase sluts.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

What kind of jobs are those with liberal arts degrees qualified to do?

 

[Cogman]

All I can say is "no duh". Many of the most popular degrees are the ones that are the least employable.

 

[PrinceofWands]

The fallacies are strong in this one.

Fact #1 - College degrees are NOT meant to be job certifications. They are education, and at the Bachelors and lower level they are more than half general education (usually).

Fact #2 - The skills taught by general education are applicable in EVERY job, in EVERY setting, for EVERY person. Again, they won't teach someone to be a working engineer (that's the role of vocational training, graduate work, experience, or certifications), but they WILL make any person better at any job.

Fact #3 - Even the specific degree focus classes can be made applicable to the marketplace with a little work. Have a degree in art history; get into interior design, museum acquisition, antique appraisal, etc. Have a degree in history; teach, become a research assistant, work on historic preservation projects, etc. ANY degree can be utilized.

The problem isn't that the degrees don't fit the jobs, it's that the jobs don't fit the country/world. You CANNOT have a service industry society. It MUST fail. More than that, you CANNOT focus on money as the end goal of work. Until we replace the business focus with more proper endeavors we won't escape the downward spiral.

I do completely agree that education became a severe bubble which MUST burst (tying in to my 'can't focus on money' point above). If people would simply embrace my fact #1 above, future bubbles could be easily avoided by removing the idea that people need to go to university to be employable.

 

[gingermeggs]

I wonder if legal costs will come down with all those unemployed Corbin Bernstein types flipping burgers and pumping gas nowadays!

You can't buy a pound of experience!

 

[Cogman]

The fallacies are strong in this one.

Fact #1 - College degrees are NOT meant to be job certifications. They are education, and at the Bachelors and lower level they are more than half general education (usually).

While every job doesn't require a degree, that doesn't mean that there aren't some jobs that require certain degrees. For several jobs, a bachelors degree or higher IS essentially a certification for being able to at least handle job X and certain degrees are required. There are several degrees that carry no such weight (They might as well not be concidered in the hiring process.)

Fact #2 - The skills taught by general education are applicable in EVERY job, in EVERY setting, for EVERY person. Again, they won't teach someone to be a working engineer (that's the role of vocational training, graduate work, experience, or certifications), but they WILL make any person better at any job.

I disagree. How will an appreciation for art make you a better business man? How will PE make you a better doctor? How will basic chemistry make you a better burger flipper? General education quiet often has no benefits other then padding the pockets of the school. Hell, many kids are stupid enough not to remember a single thing out of those general classes.

Fact #3 - Even the specific degree focus classes can be made applicable to the marketplace with a little work. Have a degree in art history; get into interior design, museum acquisition, antique appraisal, etc. Have a degree in history; teach, become a research assistant, work on historic preservation projects, etc. ANY degree can be utilized.

Those markets you pointed out are EXTREMELY limited. There may be some jobs that could use a liberal arts major, but they are few and far between.

The problem isn't that the degrees don't fit the jobs, it's that the jobs don't fit the country/world. You CANNOT have a service industry society. It MUST fail. More than that, you CANNOT focus on money as the end goal of work. Until we replace the business focus with more proper endeavors we won't escape the downward spiral.

Humanity has operated for a good long time based on a service industry. In fact, throughout the different cultures that is about the only thing that has remained constant. Only in a few rare cultures has it not been service oriented, and those didn't last for too long.

Education is a tool. Much like a hammer. There are places that you can use it and it will work fantastically, and others where it can't be applied in the least (or potentially awkwardly). The knowledge of how to work is important, but it is also something that can be picked up outside of a degree.

 

[techs]

Conservative political thought holds that too much education is a bad thing. It just gives the masses unrealistic expectations.

Which is why for the eight years of Republican reign one of the VERY few things they cut was aid for college education.

A good case can be made that the current poor educational performance was the end result of the policies that started with Prop13 and continue with current tax cutting policies.

 

[Zebo]

All I can say is "no duh". Many of the most popular degrees are the ones that are the least employable.

There is a bunch of UE engineers and scientists. Even with PhDs, aka waiter post docs. Basically only thing in demand is HC professionals with growing geriatric population, there I think it's no problem like sciences and engineering used to be. I was talking to a friend at lockheed where I used to work and they got like 175 apps for a EE when in the past you'd be lucky to get 5.

 

[manimal]

This has been a trend since the early 2000s and really began during the outsourcing bubble. I call it the outsourcing bubble because the effects have been essentially the same as a bubble bursting.

I know many people that either by choice or to a greater extent by job loss are making much less than they used to. Some-like my wife and I-have moved out of high stress high reward careers to careers better suited to happiness and time together. Most have been let go by their chosen fields and had to get something else to survive the never ending recession.
The simple truth is there are less good paying jobs in America and the jobs created to replace the good lost jobs are lower paying service type jobs. There is nothing wrong with a service field but the problem with their preponderance is that its difficult to provide for a family on 8-14 dollars an hour....

Now a service heavy job outlook does more to suppress wages than just the demand. People working those service jobs are less likely to be able to afford said services in most cases.

Now if we innovate and create new markets-tech-financial etc-we can get ahead of the curve and ride another bubble but the end result will yeald the same cyclical boom bust cycle concentrating more wealth in the top 2 %. welcome to the new reality.

This number sadly will go up until we rebuild the mfg base and start making real products.

 

[PrinceofWands]

While every job doesn't require a degree, that doesn't mean that there aren't some jobs that require certain degrees. For several jobs, a bachelors degree or higher IS essentially a certification for being able to at least handle job X and certain degrees are required. There are several degrees that carry no such weight (They might as well not be concidered in the hiring process.)

Sure...doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc. However those are PROFESSIONAL degrees, not simply college degrees...they combine vocational training and education. They acknowledge a combination of two entirely different concepts. You don't apply to be a hospital resident with a BA in Russian Studies. Then again, you don't apply with a Juris Doctor either. But that's ENTIRELY different, and of limited scope.

I disagree. How will an appreciation for art make you a better business man? How will PE make you a better doctor? How will basic chemistry make you a better burger flipper? General education quiet often has no benefits other then padding the pockets of the school. Hell, many kids are stupid enough not to remember a single thing out of those general classes.

Those markets you pointed out are EXTREMELY limited. There may be some jobs that could use a liberal arts major, but they are few and far between.

Because there are any number of artistic businesses for which such a degree would be useful. Moreover, you don't JUST study art...like nearly all degrees you study psych, sociology, history, english, etc...all of which improves a person in all areas.

PE gives you first-hand knowledge of the theory you're studying...about body mechanics, etc. It also improves the overall condition of the individual, which makes them essentially smarter. It also increases their endurance, which is required for the hours a doctor puts in.

Chemistry can teach you NOT to mix ammonia and bleach to clean the grill. It can give you an understanding of systematic processes and working with hazardous chemicals. It teaches proportion and ratios, and generally improves math ability, etc.

EVERY class teaches you useful things, as long as you treat it as general education and NOT a work certification. It improves the person as a whole.

Humanity has operated for a good long time based on a service industry. In fact, throughout the different cultures that is about the only thing that has remained constant. Only in a few rare cultures has it not been service oriented, and those didn't last for too long.

Exactly untrue. Humanity has almost always existed either as individual subsistence, or a resource industry. Manufacturing/industrial is relatively new to us, and service industry is BRAND new in the scheme of things. Up until the nineteenth century even specialization was fairly rare. People knew how to do everything they'd need to do, and they did it for themselves. These are the types of things you'd know if you embraced the 'liberal arts' education you disparage here.

 

[Zebo]

There is only 3 ways to create wealth. You can grow something, mine something or manufacture something. ALL other activities are simply skimming off others production and are dependent on production to function - That includes all the paper-pushing, the heath care, the insurance, the banking. What do you need insurance for with nothing to insure? Think Chad they don't have insurance companies. What do you need accountants for without sales of your product? and so on.

As credit disappears and we are insolvent you'll see those "high knowledge" based jobs disappear as well.

This is the primary reason many are still employed, reciprocal of offshoring and trade imbalance. Living on a credit card. We went from 5 trillion to 55 trillion in debt in 30 years.

 

[techs]

Liberal arts degrees used to be worth something. People who could read, write and think analytically were in great demand in the business world.
Now many have been replaced by computers and offshoring of these labor intensive jobs.

It's not so much that the liberal arts degree is worthless, its that it has become worthless.

 

[dmcowen674]

17,000,000 College-Educated Americans Are Wasting Their Degree On Menial Jobs

I said this was going to happen years ago and the P&N Republicans said it would never happen.

I know many well college educated people including those with PHD's now working minimum wage jobs just to survive.

Republicans said only 16 year olds would be working those jobs.

 

[Hacp]

Sure...doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc. However those are PROFESSIONAL degrees, not simply college degrees...they combine vocational training and education. They acknowledge a combination of two entirely different concepts. You don't apply to be a hospital resident with a BA in Russian Studies. Then again, you don't apply with a Juris Doctor either. But that's ENTIRELY different, and of limited scope.



Because there are any number of artistic businesses for which such a degree would be useful. Moreover, you don't JUST study art...like nearly all degrees you study psych, sociology, history, english, etc...all of which improves a person in all areas.

PE gives you first-hand knowledge of the theory you're studying...about body mechanics, etc. It also improves the overall condition of the individual, which makes them essentially smarter. It also increases their endurance, which is required for the hours a doctor puts in.

Chemistry can teach you NOT to mix ammonia and bleach to clean the grill. It can give you an understanding of systematic processes and working with hazardous chemicals. It teaches proportion and ratios, and generally improves math ability, etc.

EVERY class teaches you useful things, as long as you treat it as general education and NOT a work certification. It improves the person as a whole.




Exactly untrue. Humanity has almost always existed either as individual subsistence, or a resource industry. Manufacturing/industrial is relatively new to us, and service industry is BRAND new in the scheme of things. Up until the nineteenth century even specialization was fairly rare. People knew how to do everything they'd need to do, and they did it for themselves. These are the types of things you'd know if you embraced the 'liberal arts' education you disparage here.

The question is are you willing to spend 100k and four years of your life for a general education that won't get you a job? We need to cut the fat in higher education. We should be spending our resources on the top 10%, not the bottom 50%.

 

[Hacp]

There is only 3 ways to create wealth. You can grow something, mine something or manufacture something. ALL other activities are simply skimming off others production and are dependent on production to function - That includes all the paper-pushing, the heath care, the insurance, the banking. What do you need insurance for with nothing to insure? Think Chad they don't have insurance companies. What do you need accountants for without sales of your product? and so on.

As credit disappears and we are insolvent you'll see those "high knowledge" based jobs disappear as well.

This is the primary reason many are still employed, reciprocal of offshoring and trade imbalance. Living on a credit card.

While I agree to an extent, I don't think google grows, manufacturers, or mines anything.

 

[Engineer]

There is only 3 ways to create wealth. You can grow something, mine something or manufacture something. ALL other activities are simply skimming off others production and are dependent on production to function - That includes all the paper-pushing, the heath care, the insurance, the banking. What do you need insurance for with nothing to insure? Think Chad they don't have insurance companies. What do you need accountants for without sales of your product? and so on.

As credit disappears and we are insolvent you'll see those "high knowledge" based jobs disappear as well.

This is the primary reason many are still employed, reciprocal of offshoring and trade imbalance. Living on a credit card. We went from 5 trillion to 55 trillion in debt in 30 years.

Couldn't agree more (sadly).

 

[Zebo]

While I agree to an extent, I don't think google grows, manufacturers, or mines anything.

What about them? They would not exist w/o advertising products people made and to a less extent grow. They did not create any wealth. They are skimming as well (although they do make some things).

 

[hal2kilo]

While I agree to an extent, I don't think google grows, manufacturers, or mines anything.

You are a prime example of someone who does not understand causation does imply correlation.

Let's keep helping the 10% that need no help at all and see where that gets us. And you call others elitists.

 

[1prophet]

Conservative political thought holds that too much education is a bad thing. It just gives the masses unrealistic expectations.

Which is why for the eight years of Republican reign one of the VERY few things they cut was aid for college education.

A good case can be made that the current poor educational performance was the end result of the policies that started with Prop13 and continue with current tax cutting policies.

Bullshit,this country has had a negative image of the educated especially scientists long before Bush and the Republicans got in and it is ingrained throughout the culture in America and also subcultures like predominately black areas that accuse their own of being too educated as acting white.

Hollywood and television have constantly portrayed the educated as the Geek, Nerd, Know it all while promoting Biff the ball player as the Hero, and the people who run those establishments are definitely not conservative.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...nomy-is-the-brink-going-down-the-tubesforever

But the National Academy of Science report Is America falling off a flat earth? points out that science, technology and math education of the American workforce has been in steep decline for decades, as students choose careers in business, law or media over the high tech jobs that were so attractive in the post-Sputnik 60's and 70's. In stark contrast, workforces of countries such as China are becoming much more tech savvy, such that China now rivals the US and Europe in patents and technical publications. S. James Gates, a Physicist who served on the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology said "If you look at U.S. performance on various international metrics, depending on which one you use, we come out something like 24th or 25th in the world."In my own informal survey of middle school and high-school students, conducted during school speaking engagements to increase the allure of science, most kids tell me that they plan to steer clear of science because it's "way too hard." Other kids observe that "scientists are nerdy."As a result of these widespread attitudes-nurtured by Hollywood's portrayal of scientists as socially clueless eccentrics-- innovation-fueled economic growth will increasingly take place outside America's borders, and our economy will spiral into relative decline for the foreseeable future.

 

[charrison]

The real problem with education.

The next bubble?

 

[Zebo]

YES! Y'all really think a Devry or hundreds of diploma mills out there who take anyone and somehow managed to get on federal gravy will produce assets? I worry about kids who go to real schools, top schools, let alone those places