15 year old shot and killed

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ryan256

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Czar

City prosecutors decided Monday that Wells, 25, was justified and would not be charged for what appears to be the first time a concealed-carry permit holder has shot and killed an attacker.

This is the most telling that concieled weapons permit does indeed not work.

Absurd. The vast majority of defensive gun uses involve no shooting, merely brandishing.

There are between 1.5 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses a year in the US. Only a tiny minority involve shots fired and an even smaller number end in fatalities.

Your lack of logic assumes that every defensive gun use must end not only with a shooting, but a fatality. Why would you assume that? Should CCW permit holders shoot criminals as they run away? Shoot them in the back? Would that make you feel better?

I guess this is a good reason I don't have a CCW permit. If I was ever in a situation where I felt threatened enough that I had to draw you will get shot, even if its in the back.

If you shoot someone as they are fleeing, you WILL go to jail. They have to pose an immediate threat. A fleeing criminal does not pose an immediate threat, and therefore a claim of self defense is not justifiable.

Not if they are in your home. Even if they are fleeing, they are considered to pose an immediate threat by their simple presence in your home. They could drop their gun and run for the door screaming bloody murder, and you would still be legally okay to shoot them. At least according to the laws in my state.

 

[TehMac]

you know, maybe if people actually spanked their kids and disciplined them, we wouldn't have 15 year olds trying to mug people. Then we wouldn't have crazy loonies trying to take away rights. Then we wouldn't have stupid liberals having nothing to do, and maybe they'd let their balls drop.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: TehMac
you know, maybe if people actually spanked their kids and disciplined them, we wouldn't have 15 year olds trying to mug people. Then we wouldn't have crazy loonies trying to take away rights. Then we wouldn't have stupid liberals having nothing to do, and maybe they'd let their balls drop.

The only people in America who don't spank their kids are white upper class yuppies-- are their kids the ones committing violent crimes? Have you ever watched COPS?

 

[randalee]

Owned.

 

[darkamulets]

Originally posted by: Kntx

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
i can't believe stupid people put up a memorial at where the kid died. he was a thug, and looked for trouble. he was just asking for it. he deserves no memorial, no balloons, no teddy bears. lame.

Just because the kid was a dick doesn't mean his friends and family arn't going to be affected by his death. I agree the fellow was justified in defending himself, but I wish more people could feel compasion for kid and his family. He may have grown out of his troubles and led a good life. It's sad.

Yes but in all reality he wouldn't of smartened up and probably would kill a few people, before he was gunned down around the age of 24 much like the statistic reads.

 

[soydios]

Originally posted by: BKLounger
let me just make sure i am crystal here. A 15 year old pulls a gun on a person then the other person responds by shooting a weapon (which he had concealed and a permit for) and people are on the side of the 15 year old?

Am i correct in this? who in the world can actually be on the side of the 15 year old with an illegal fire arm who pulled his weapon first?

An excellent summary.

 

[Matt2]

Good.

Quite frankly I'm glad the teenager got killed instead of the shooter.

The hoodlums approached someone else's home and pulled a gun on the home owner and everyone is shocked when the right person dies?

Man, to hell with this country. I'm sick and tired of crap like this happening.

 

[Emission]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Good. I don't feel pity for the dead 15 year old. He's old enough to know better, he pulled a gun first and probably would have used it if he felt he had too. Score one for the good guys.

I agree with everyone supporting the fact that it was the 15 year olds stupidity that created this mess. If he handn't pulled the damn gun, nothing would have happened, the person that shot and killed the kid did so in defense, because he felt his life threatened.

I hate ignorant people.

Originally posted by: Matt2
Good.

Quite frankly I'm glad the teenager got killed instead of the shooter.

The hoodlums approached someone else's home and pulled a gun on the home owner and everyone is shocked when the right person dies?

Man, to hell with this country. I'm sick and tired of crap like this happening.

Amen, I'm moving from this country.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Emission

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Good. I don't feel pity for the dead 15 year old. He's old enough to know better, he pulled a gun first and probably would have used it if he felt he had too. Score one for the good guys.

I agree with everyone supporting the fact that it was the 15 year olds stupidity that created this mess. If he handn't pulled the damn gun, nothing would have happened, the person that shot and killed the kid did so in defense, because he felt his life threatened.

I hate ignorant people.

Originally posted by: Matt2
Good.

Quite frankly I'm glad the teenager got killed instead of the shooter.

The hoodlums approached someone else's home and pulled a gun on the home owner and everyone is shocked when the right person dies?

Man, to hell with this country. I'm sick and tired of crap like this happening.

Amen, I'm moving from this country.

Where though? Every place comparable is even more liberal and nannified. Places like Australia and Britain for example, you aren't even allowed a gun, and criminals rights and safety are valued more than those of the law abiding. And America is turning into a place where we award illegal alien fugitives 50 acre ranches because the owner roughed them up a little with non lethal force after they stole or destroyed property for the nth time in a month and the authorities refuse to act.

The only alternative I can see is some lawless hole in the wall third world country where everyone just minds their own and doesn't care about what anyone else is doing.

Thats one thing going for third world countries that I admire... You can have a guy selling full auto AKs for $20 and firing them into the air to demonstrate to potential customers, while the lady out about the market looking for a chicken for tonights meal doesn't even blink or care. As long as you just mind your own business and don't bother anybody else or try to be sneaky and rip anybody off, the only thing you have to worry about is stepping in the chicken sh1t scattered about the dirt road (and those bullets falling back down at a still lethal ~400 fps).

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Not if they are in your home. Even if they are fleeing, they are considered to pose an immediate threat by their simple presence in your home. They could drop their gun and run for the door screaming bloody murder, and you would still be legally okay to shoot them. At least according to the laws in my state.

"He was running to an area where he could return fire without being hurt. I shot him before he got there."

- M4H

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Not if they are in your home. Even if they are fleeing, they are considered to pose an immediate threat by their simple presence in your home. They could drop their gun and run for the door screaming bloody murder, and you would still be legally okay to shoot them. At least according to the laws in my state.

"He was running to an area where he could return fire without being hurt. I shot him before he got there."

- M4H

Just block the exit so as to detain him so the police can apprehend him. You didn't force him to respond by lifting his fist or drawing his weapon. You are perfectly in your right to stand where ever you want on your own property. The criminal is not right to respond with deadly force. If he wasn't there unlawfully in the first place, he wouldn't have a problem fleeing now would he.

The hidden beauty of criminal law and laws regarding use of force is that:

a) the criminal is always wrong when escalating force in the commission of an unlawful act

b) the citizen defending himself or property is always in the right by escalating their use of force to match that of the criminal

It's just a matter of acting in a way that is lawful and reasonable that will cause the criminal to escalate, thus allowing to escalate to the desired level of force. Let the criminal make that choice. If he escalates and you shoot him, you are protected by law. If he doesn't escalate he either gets caught or leaves without your property. Either way you win and the criminal loses. :laugh:

Example: I won't shoot someone for breaking into my car because it's not legal use of deadly force. However I will stand in the way or use reasonable non deadly physical force as allowed by law to protect my property from theft. But if he pulls a weapon or starts the car and puts it in gear with my standing in the way, hes committing assault with a deadly weapon or presenting a threat of deadly force. I now have a legal reason to match his threat of deadly force and legally shoot him for a reason that doesn't have anything to do with the original crime of theft.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: TehMac
you know, maybe if people actually spanked their kids and disciplined them, we wouldn't have 15 year olds trying to mug people. Then we wouldn't have crazy loonies trying to take away rights. Then we wouldn't have stupid liberals having nothing to do, and maybe they'd let their balls drop.

The only people in America who don't spank their kids are white upper class yuppies-- are their kids the ones committing violent crimes? Have you ever watched COPS?

the only people in america who dont spank are upper class yuppies? really?