15 ipads on one wirless network, HELP! thinking dual band or 2 routers??

[oneofusjustin]

Ok first off i have 15 Ipads that are bandwidth hogs. they are not just normal browsing, its a business purpose basically they all get going and do a similar task, this task on my usage meter says its about 100kb per second per device. I have a 35mbps down/ 25mbps up fiber. so my internet bandwidth is NOT the problem i down load at around 4 megs per second. But the wirless seems to be getting jammed up when they all run at once they stall and hang up. but if i turn a bunch of them off its smooth as a wistle. I did a speed test on a desktop while runnign all of them and still had plenty of network bandwidth left.

So my question is, will getting some dual band, or just other wirless routers help me out? if so what specifics will i need to do?

 

[NXIL]

Hi 1Justin

first, I am pretty sure the bandwidth test does not measure "how much you have left" if you are using the connection--at least I do not think speedtest.net works that way.

But: a gaggle of iPads all downloading. The iPad2 at least has dual band 802.11n wireless, so either 2.4 or 5ghz bands.

You don't say what kind of router you have now, but if it's an older 2.4ghz 802.11G with an older broadcom (or atheros) chip in it, that may be the problem--even if there was enough wireless bandwidth, it cannot keep up with all the requests. From what you describe, it sounds like the router's CPU is getting overloaded ("stall and hang up") rather than the wireless bandwidth getting overloaded per se.

But yes, getting a dual band router will certainly help. An Airport Extreme would be ideal--and I am saying that not as an apple fanboi, but based on objective testing.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/

Right now the Linksys E4200 (if you get it, get the V2 version) is also on top of their charts for throughput and range.

You don't say how far from the router the iPads are....in the same room?

Also: wireless congestion: when you look at available wireless networks, how many show up?

Do you have a channel selected, or is router on "autoselect"?

There is a really good free program, InSSider, that will scan for wireless access points and give you a great graph of who is on what channel.

http://www.metageek.net/products/inssider/

Note that channels 1,6, and 11 are the only "real" channels--the others overlap the channel above and below.

If there is a lot of interference, and, the airwaves on 2.4ghz are crowded, and, it's not long range, you may find switching to the 5ghz band helps a lot.

If you provided some more specifics, could try to help out a bit more.....

 

[NXIL]

PS: two routers/wireless access points MAY help, but may NOT, depending on how your iPads are arrayed. Is this an office, or a classroom?

 

[oneofusjustin]

we are just using the basic fios router that verizon gives out, its the modem/router combo.

this is an office but its just set up like a simple home network.

only one network shows up, its very basic

Ipads ar roughly 25 feet from router but through a basic drywall wall

as for testing how much bandwidth i had left, i did a test with no traffic and then a test under full load on a pc and saw a dip but was still getting plenty on the speedtest.net not scientific but a rough estimate when u compare the differance

 

[NXIL]

Hi 1Just--

so, not long range at all--that is good. And drywall does not attenuate signal too much.

Office: you really need to get InSSider and do a wireless survey; you may be surprised by how many wireless APs there are. And again, check the channels--channel 11 always works well for me, then channel 1 if I need another AP in the same area. A lot of routers default to channel 6--you may find a bunch of routers on that channel all trying to shout over each other to be heard.

The Verizon FIOS router: MI424WR? Wireless G only on 2.4ghz band. And, you don't say how many other APs are broadcasting within range, but, I would recommend:

Apple Airport Extreme--I just read somewhere that Apple is using the same radio in iPads/iBooks (made by broadcom) as in the Airport Extreme, and speeding up data transfer--since they are doing the software at both ends, they are speeding up the data transfers somehow.

Turn the wireless signal off in the Verizon--or, use that as a general data access point.

Configure the Airport Extreme so the iPads can access it on the 5ghz band. (Set iPads up so they connect to 5GHz first--maybe delete the 2.4 ghz SSIDs, since it looks like it will connect to the 2.4 ghz signals first if given the chance.

5 GHz signal at that range will be clean, has more bandwidth, and should be less interference.

Good luck, would love to hear how it turns out.

 

[spidey07]

15 is getting to be too much for a single AP as you can see especially consumer level stuff. Lots of the available bandwidth gets eaten up by management frames and lesser APs can't keep up. Even business solutions best practice is to not have more than 12-14 clients on a single AP. Your best bet would be to get 3 access points and set the maximum number of clients to 5-6 on each one. This will force the clients to distribute themselves. Put them on channels 1, 6, 11 for no interference. 5 Ghz has plenty of non-overlapping channels you can use. Or as mentioned, abandon 2.4 Ghz if you can.

 

[oneofusjustin]

i dont think there are many other AP around. its a home business in a housing addition.

im not sure how channels work? could you explain it to me ?

 

[NXIL]

Hmm, Spidey has a good point, though with only 56,000 posts, can we trust him?

Actually, this company makes good stuff: Ruckus

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/products/zoneflex-indoor

I have one Ruckus wireless bridge at 5GHz right now--in an area where I pick up at least 30 wireless G signals on the 2.4ghz band.

Over the past year: number of reboots, problems, dropouts, hassles: zero. Not one.

Supposedly the antennas in Ruckus units "focus" the signal.....could be, but, I do know that I forgot I had that running. It handles digital media, TV/DVR/Music--so gets a lot of use. Again, until Spidey mentioned going up from consumer grade gear, I did not think to mention it--because it just works.

This is not what I have, but it looks like it can blast a lot of data:

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/products/zoneflex-indoor/7962

Could you let us know what you find out, and what you end up deciding?

THx

 

[drebo]

Ubiquiti Unifi is decent and inexpensive. 3 centrally manageable APs for $250.

 

[oneofusjustin]

yeah ill keep you guys posted im gonna try out some of that wirless monitor stuff next week to see what we actually use.

earlier in the thread you said something about it could be the routers cpu just not being able to handel the requests, rather than a bandwidth issue, so are the options you mentioned more beefed up in its processing capabilities when it comes to a bunch of requests at once?

 

[drebo]

It's inadvisable to put so many devices on a single antenna. The amount of signalling and protocol information that has to go back and forth over the single-access (simplex) network causes everything to slow down.

Adding more antennas resolves the issue.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

i dont think there are many other AP around. its a home business in a housing addition.

im not sure how channels work? could you explain it to me ?

If you are using the 2wire that came with the service, then you'd be surprised how many other signals are out there. I live in a neighborhood with mostly older people, and there's at least 10 wireless networks that I can pick up.

 

[gsaldivar]

You really don't need a fancy router to solve this. Just use two different routers, with the same SSID but two different passwords. Each router should be on a separate channel. As mentioned above, you will need to do a site survey to determine the best channels to use (the ones with the least traffic). Then divide up your devices - assign half to one router, and the other half to the second.

Half of your tablets will have password "A" and will only be able to connect to router "A". The other half will have password "B" and will only be able to connect to router "B".

Good luck

 

[NXIL]

i dont think there are many other AP around. its a home business in a housing addition.

im not sure how channels work? could you explain it to me ?

You might be surprised by how many wireless routers there are out there now....check with InSSider.

Wireless channels:

02.11 divides each of the above-described bands into channels, analogously to how radio and TV broadcast bands are sub-divided.

For example the 2.4000–2.4835 GHz band is divided into 13 channels spaced 5 MHz apart, with channel 1 centered on 2.412 GHz and 13 on 2.472 GHz .

802.11b was based on DSSS waveforms which used 22 MHz and did not have sharp borders. Consequently only three channels did not overlap. Even now many devices are shipped with channels 1, 6 and 11 as preset options

See diagram:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NonOverlappingChannels2.4GHzWLAN-en.svg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/2.4_GHz_Wi-Fi_channels_(802.11g_WLAN).svg

 

[Nebor]

This is not what I have, but it looks like it can blast a lot of data:

http://www.ruckuswireless.com/products/zoneflex-indoor/7962

Could you let us know what you find out, and what you end up deciding?

THx

$1000 Access Point.

 

[spidey07]

$1000 Access Point.

The Cisco 3502s I get are a little under 1000 but worth every penny thanks to CleanAir and you can turn them into spectrum analyzers.

Business class stuff is pricey, but worth every penny. It does what it needs to do without any problems. It just works, always.

And don't forget the controllers, they're about 45k for a redundant pair for 100 APs.

 

[skyking]

I have 5 of those ruckus units deployed with a zone director, went smoothly for me. 3 are meshed with a single master AP ,and the 5th is out by itself. The main unit is getting hammered pretty good by 10 clients but keeps up OK.

 

[Nebor]

The Cisco 3502s I get are a little under 1000 but worth every penny thanks to CleanAir and you can turn them into spectrum analyzers.

Business class stuff is pricey, but worth every penny. It does what it needs to do without any problems. It just works, always.

And don't forget the controllers, they're about 45k for a redundant pair for 100 APs.

You use these in your home?

 

[spidey07]

You use these in your home?

3 of them, but they fell off a truck.

The point is business class wireless is a different animal than what one is used to in the home. It is meant to be always available, always performing and not have the troubles the OP is running into (a lot of that is design, but a good chunk can be attributed to poor quality AP radios and processing power). And that costs money. Barring any major interference, it just works.