15 dollars. Only $15 per every 365 million American Citizen. You in?

[sportage]

$15.... PER-AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Yes..... that amounts to $15 each and every 365 million American citizen to build Trump's wall.
$15 x 365 million Americans = $5.4 billion. Thats 5.4 billion for Donald Trump's damn wall.
Every American man woman and child.
And could figure out to even less per individual if the undocumented illegals living within the US of A also chipped in.
But that won't happen.
Besides, Trump wants to kick those folks out.
See Donald... undocumented illegals "COULD" be useful in your wall obsession.
I say forget Nancy Pelosi, undocumented illegals "could be" the answer to your wall problem, Donald.
And in a way, that WOULD technically include Mexico as paying for "your wall". Or at least chipping in.
After all, undocumented illegals are not US citizens, however.... they are citizens of somewhere? Mainly of Mexico?
Or.... where ever they migrated from.
Heck, not only could Trump claim that Mexico was indeed indirectly paying for the wall, other foreign countries could be unknowingly chipping in as well.
Whatever country that undocumented immigrant came from.
I don't think Donald is thinking this thru.
Donald could have his wall, and correctly claim that Mexico was paying or at least chipping in via undocumented immigrants living within the US of A chipping in.

So is it worth $15 to shut Donald Trump THE HELL UP?
And to reopen the government?
And get those paychecks flowing again?
Is it worth sacrificing a couple packs of cigarettes? Or a happy meal or two?
Besides, in short time after Trump is out and another president is in, that president will only TEAR DOWN THAT WALL.
A huge waste? Sure.
But we all know some future president will campaign on and easily get elected by promising to tear down that F-king Donald Trump wall.
Reagan did it with Germany. And this isn't even Germany.
So I say pony up the $15 America.
Buy the damn kid his candy bar and shut him up.

 

[UglyCasanova]

It’s quickly costing more than that to be against it. Don’t get me wrong government spending is out of control so I’m against anything and everything including this. I wish Dems would make a better clear case though on why the opposition. "It cost too much" doesn’t pass muster, the right sees the left as the spendhappy party (and I get the irony) so why this and now. And the arguement that they can use a ladder or dig a tunnel doesn’t pass either, no one is stating this is going to be an infallible thing. But the amount of illegals it deters from crossing will certainly be greater than zero. The right wants this in conjunction with other measures, this is only part of it.

I hear over and over on places like NPR how this is a symbolic battle more than anything which I agree with. Symbolism on both sides and ultimately boils down to Teumps victory in 16 and one of his biggest campaign promises was to build the wall (the Mexico will pay for it thing is bs, was then and still is). People on here seem loathe to admit that though for some reason.

 

[Moonbeam]

That's a recipe for having a spoiled kid. He needs boundary work, a wall erected between him and bad behavior. Build that wall.

 

[Thump553]

That's this years portion (per The Donald, until he changes his mind again). That will only cover 100+ miles. Building the full Trump Wall is estimated to run north of $70 BILLION-not counting repairs, update, etc.

And no, I'm not in, even if it was a dime. I'm holding Donald to his promises-repeatedly made. I'm willing to wait until this master negotiator gets Mexico to fork over the money. He aid it was simple to do.

If this was anything but an ego exercise The Donald would have rammed a bill through Congress when it was totally controlled by the GOP-that is, unless even his own people \don't want this boondoggle.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

But that's only the financial expense, and true -- it's not much compared to Defense and other cabinet agency budgets.

Instead, it is the folly of allowing a building project that will immortalize one particularly deranged autocrat -- a permanent structure, stretching from sea to sea. And it will be totally ineffective. Chapo Guzman won't need to buy Elon Musk's tunneling machine. He'll just hand a bunch of hopeful migrants some picks and shovels.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Building the full Trump Wall is estimated to run north of $70 BILLION-not counting repairs, update, etc.

Where did you get that figure? If so that’s crazy and should be the end of the story imo.

Edit just found it, that’s the upper limit of the range.

 

[Puffnstuff]

If they build it then look for home made airplanes to come over it.

 

[HomerJS]

$15.... PER-AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Yes..... that amounts to $15 each and every 365 million American citizen to build Trump's wall.
$15 x 365 million Americans = $5.4 billion. Thats 5.4 billion for Donald Trump's damn wall.
Every American man woman and child.
And could figure out to even less per individual if the undocumented illegals living within the US of A also chipped in.
But that won't happen.
Besides, Trump wants to kick those folks out.
See Donald... undocumented illegals "COULD" be useful in your wall obsession.
I say forget Nancy Pelosi, undocumented illegals "could be" the answer to your wall problem, Donald.
And in a way, that WOULD technically include Mexico as paying for "your wall". Or at least chipping in.
After all, undocumented illegals are not US citizens, however.... they are citizens of somewhere? Mainly of Mexico?
Or.... where ever they migrated from.
Heck, not only could Trump claim that Mexico was indeed indirectly paying for the wall, other foreign countries could be unknowingly chipping in as well.
Whatever country that undocumented immigrant came from.
I don't think Donald is thinking this thru.
Donald could have his wall, and correctly claim that Mexico was paying or at least chipping in via undocumented immigrants living within the US of A chipping in.

So is it worth $15 to shut Donald Trump THE HELL UP?
And to reopen the government?
And get those paychecks flowing again?
Is it worth sacrificing a couple packs of cigarettes? Or a happy meal or two?
Besides, in short time after Trump is out and another president is in, that president will only TEAR DOWN THAT WALL.
A huge waste? Sure.
But we all know some future president will campaign on and easily get elected by promising to tear down that F-king Donald Trump wall.
Reagan did it with Germany. And this isn't even Germany.
So I say pony up the $15 America.
Buy the damn kid his candy bar and shut him up.

So what are you going to do when Trump shuts the government down again over something he wants??

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That's a recipe for having a spoiled kid. He needs boundary work, a wall erected between him and bad behavior. Build that wall.

Agreed, a deal needs to have value to both parties and neither party gets 100% of what they want. Those are good deals that work.
A deal based upon “I want everything or else” is not a deal that should be made or entered into even if it costs money.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I'll pay 50 if we can build 4 concrete walls around Trump and all his cronies, with steel slats for windows. And another 10 for roof because I'm feeling generous.

 

[feralkid]

Where did you get that figure? If so that’s crazy and should be the end of the story imo.

Edit just found it, that’s the upper limit of the range.

Damn, do you ever bother to research/find facts on any single issue before you come and weigh in so heavily here?

You actually thought 5.7B was the total?



Holy smokes do you ever raise our deepest concerns.

 

[UglyCasanova]

No didn’t think 5 billion was the total figure but haven’t heard the 70 billion figure. That’s the upper end of projections.

 

[fskimospy]

For like the eleventy billionth time the reason the Democrats can’t give in is because you can’t establish a precedent where it’s okay to hold the basic functions of government hostage to get things you couldn’t pass normally.

This is basic, basic good governance. If you do he will shut the government down again and again. He will take the debt ceiling hostage, etc, etc.

Anyone looking at this objectively knows this is why you don’t pay ransom, it just encourages more ransom.

 

[fskimospy]

What needs to happen before anything else is that Democrats need to force Trump to surrender. He doesn’t need to sign papers on the deck of a battleship or anything and they should give him some sort of fig leaf to prevent his total humiliation, but it needs to be clear to him that he is surrendering.

If he’s not willing to do that then we wait until 2020 and remove him that way or wait until Mueller’s report comes out and the criminal that hasn’t let the government function in six months starts looking very replaceable.

 

[Atreus21]

Of the varied objections to an additional 250 miles of border wall, its price tag is by far the least compelling.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What needs to happen before anything else is that Democrats need to force Trump to surrender. He doesn’t need to sign papers on the deck of a battleship or anything and they should give him some sort of fig leaf to prevent his total humiliation, but it needs to be clear to him that he is surrendering.

If he’s not willing to do that then we wait until 2020 and remove him that way or wait until Mueller’s report comes out and the criminal that hasn’t let the government function in six months starts looking very replaceable.

True or even the report comes out and Republicans get sick of his shit and decide a one short term President Pence is a more equitable “deal”

 

[Jaskalas]

Yes..... that amounts to $15 each and every 365 million American citizen

Actually, it's only 361 million IF we incorporated Canada. Which is how I assume you came to that silly figure.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

For like the eleventy billionth time the reason the Democrats can’t give in is because you can’t establish a precedent where it’s okay to hold the basic functions of government hostage to get things you couldn’t pass normally.

This is basic, basic good governance. If you do he will shut the government down again and again. He will take the debt ceiling hostage, etc, etc.

Anyone looking at this objectively knows this is why you don’t pay ransom, it just encourages more ransom.

As well said as I might have stated it.

I am mystified as to how the Right is numb to this, except that they hate government, are willing to sabotage it extra-legally through total mismanagement and totally clueless to the notion that whoever is in office has a custodial responsibility for everyone else. It should be obvious as to why our elections are seldom won in landslides, or that the results always come close to a 50-50 result. That's something to be taken up as a lengthy discussion some other time, but common sense alone can explain it. Suddenly, we live in a world in which the Right feels that the other 50% doesn't exist because they alone "won," and as though this gives them a mandate to dictate whatever they want.

So with that Rightist mindset, it's perfectly OK to damage the daily lives of 800,000 people so that a delusional narcissist can build a 2,000-mile-long monument to himself. And of course they think that all those bureaucratic jobs don't produce anything anyway. So it's perfectly fine to degrade federal financial controls by furloughing auditors, damaging the integrity of the tax-collection system by shutting down the IRS, ruining the national parks by furloughing rangers and trail crew, creating a risk to the public by withholding pay of TSA employees and air-traffic controllers.

It would teach them a lesson if we had some airline accident, or someone tried to hijack a plane at this time. Here all along they've been sounding the terror alarm, scaring people about ISIS to whip up chicken-little votes, but suddenly public safety doesn't matter.

So -- no -- the Dems shouldn't budge an inch on this. It's blackmail; it's kidnapping and hostage-taking. The Wall doesn't have a damn thing to do with the rest of those appropriations bills, and Trump's behavior is in the spirit of criminality even if there's no law that says he has to approve those appropriations.

They will tell you all day and night what patriots they are, and Trump will tell you day after day what a patriot he is. But the real truth of the matter is that they hate America and want to destroy it.

 

[WelshBloke]

No didn’t think 5 billion was the total figure but haven’t heard the 70 billion figure. That’s the upper end of projections.

And government programs usually come well under the highest estimate, and usually early as well!

 

[theeedude]

I thought this was to send Trump to the moon.

 

[Meghan54]

As well said as I might have stated it.

I am mystified as to how the Right is numb to this, except that they hate government, are willing to sabotage it extra-legally through total mismanagement and totally clueless to the notion that whoever is in office has a custodial responsibility for everyone else. It should be obvious as to why our elections are seldom won in landslides, or that the results always come close to a 50-50 result. That's something to be taken up as a lengthy discussion some other time, but common sense alone can explain it. Suddenly, we live in a world in which the Right feels that the other 50% doesn't exist because they alone "won," and as though this gives them a mandate to dictate whatever they want.

So with that Rightist mindset, it's perfectly OK to damage the daily lives of 800,000 people so that a delusional narcissist can build a 2,000-mile-long monument to himself. And of course they think that all those bureaucratic jobs don't produce anything anyway. So it's perfectly fine to degrade federal financial controls by furloughing auditors, damaging the integrity of the tax-collection system by shutting down the IRS, ruining the national parks by furloughing rangers and trail crew, creating a risk to the public by withholding pay of TSA employees and air-traffic controllers.

It would teach them a lesson if we had some airline accident, or someone tried to hijack a plane at this time. Here all along they've been sounding the terror alarm, scaring people about ISIS to whip up chicken-little votes, but suddenly public safety doesn't matter.

So -- no -- the Dems shouldn't budge an inch on this. It's blackmail; it's kidnapping and hostage-taking. The Wall doesn't have a damn thing to do with the rest of those appropriations bills, and Trump's behavior is in the spirit of criminality even if there's no law that says he has to approve those appropriations.

They will tell you all day and night what patriots they are, and Trump will tell you day after day what a patriot he is. But the real truth of the matter is that they hate America and want to destroy it.

You left out another rather significant part of govt. that's ceased their operations.....the FDA/USDA. No more food inspections. That's what's going to bite a lot of people......huge outbreaks of Ecoli, lysteria, etc. from lack of food inspections.

 

[Thump553]

No didn’t think 5 billion was the total figure but haven’t heard the 70 billion figure. That’s the upper end of projections.

We have pretty solid proof so far the The Donald "plans" (to use the term very loosely) almost entirely by the seat of his pants, based on snap "gut" decisions with near total disregard for expert advise or frank discussion with advisers but with an obsessive attention to his "ratings" with his base. On The Wall alone he has altered the height numerous times, changed from concrete to steel slats, etc and hasn't even decided on a final plan.

He apparently hasn't budgeted anything for the eminent domain costs, litigation expenses, etc from the private citizens' land he wants to forcibly take for this vanity project.

Given this tempermental decision making process and the fact that he is spending other peoples money (thus his cheapness won't factor in) I think it is safe to say even the highest current estimate is probably woefully short of the true cost.

Finally to quote the late great (GOP) Senator Everett Dirksen "A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon it adds up to real money."

What happened to the party of fiscal responsibility-which was probably the most appealing of the GOP's (former) core values? Totally gone in this day of the personality cult.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You left out another rather significant part of govt. that's ceased their operations.....the FDA/USDA. No more food inspections. That's what's going to bite a lot of people......huge outbreaks of Ecoli, lysteria, etc. from lack of food inspections.

Well, I'd say instead "the risk of huge outbreaks of Ecoli" etc. Risk doesn't always materialize in a short time-frame. But that's the way the Base thinks, and that's the way Trump thinks, when the whole purpose of government is to assure survival of the nation-state through risk-mitigation. And food safety fits that profile no less than "peace through superior fire-power."

I think it was during the 2004 election when a scandal erupted 25 miles across the valley from here in San Bernardino at a slaughterhouse, related to the phenomenon of "downer-cows." There had been plenty in the news about mad-cow disease. Within days following the headlines about the slaughterhouse, Bill Moyers was interviewing people across the country -- maybe along Interstate 40. He was visiting a cattleman near Amarillo, who talked while wrestling a calf in the corral. Moyers asked something concerning the rancher's wishes about government. And the rancher responded "I wish the gov'mint would stay outta my business!" Um-HUMMMMM!! I always chuckle about the timing of those events.

We have pretty solid proof so far the The Donald "plans" (to use the term very loosely) almost entirely by the seat of his pants, based on snap "gut" decisions with near total disregard for expert advise or frank discussion with advisers but with an obsessive attention to his "ratings" with his base. On The Wall alone he has altered the height numerous times, changed from concrete to steel slats, etc and hasn't even decided on a final plan.
He apparently hasn't budgeted anything for the eminent domain costs, litigation expenses, etc from the private citizens' land he wants to forcibly take for this vanity project.
Given this tempermental decision making process and the fact that he is spending other peoples money (thus his cheapness won't factor in) I think it is safe to say even the highest current estimate is probably woefully short of the true cost.
Finally to quote the late great (GOP) Senator Everett Dirksen "A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon it adds up to real money."
What happened to the party of fiscal responsibility-which was probably the most appealing of the GOP's (former) core values? Totally gone in this day of the personality cult.

It seems much is missed by wide swaths of the public in terms of 20th century history as it dovetails with a history of management science and computer technology. Robert MacNamara's "The Fog of War" explains enough of it. I heard the former congressman Daryl Issa remark, concerning waste/fraud/abuse during the Iraq War: "Well, during wartime, there's bound to be a lot of waste, so Halliburton's excesses aren't important." But that doesn't jive with either history or the impetus for technological advances, nor is it consistent with the post-war peacetime applications you'd find in a company like Southland Corp (7/11), applying network optimization models for scheduling trucks in the delivery of corn-nuts to hayseed convenience stores.

There are many contradictions in the Right-wing mind. They want to seize power because they still regard the treasury as "their money" as opposed to being "our money." They think it's wise to spend frivolously on defense projects that don't significantly reduce risk, and starve the domestic budget because they regard it as good for nothing.

But with Trump at the helm, we have someone with limitless wealth since he was in pre-school. Not only would he squander or endanger the fortune he inherited, he would certainly think nothing of bankrupting the country. You'd have to ask the Base "What did you THINK would happen?" But they'd never admit that they don't think.

 

[zinfamous]

It’s quickly costing more than that to be against it.

What a fucking dumbfuck imbecile way to mis-characterize Trump's lonely tantrum costing everyone billions as "everyone else being against his wall."

 

[fskimospy]

What a fucking dumbfuck imbecile way to mis-characterize Trump's lonely tantrum costing everyone billions as "everyone else being against his wall."

As with everything else it relies on pretending that if the Democrats just gave Trump what he wanted that would be the end of it and he wouldn't try the exact same thing again in the future.

No sane person should believe that.