Have I ever said how much I love you guys?
Oh and Ameesh, a nice try saying that philosophy has little to do with science. Almost all advanced science is indestinguishable from true philosophy and one cannot have epistemology without metaphysics, even if that position is a weak materialism (wildly popular nowadays since functionalism has died out and causal content theories seem to have unresolvable problems). Don't look at the surface of my words, they're just clapping.
I think I'll have a bit of what Moonbeam's having... good 'ole pepperoni pizza. mmm mmm warm.
Cheers !
Oh and Ameesh, a nice try saying that philosophy has little to do with science. Almost all advanced science is indestinguishable from true philosophy and one cannot have epistemology without metaphysics, even if that position is a weak materialism (wildly popular nowadays since functionalism has died out and causal content theories seem to have unresolvable problems). Don't look at the surface of my words, they're just clapping.
I think I'll have a bit of what Moonbeam's having... good 'ole pepperoni pizza. mmm mmm warm.
Cheers !
Yeah, redhat-man comes through again.
You know what they used to call science?
"Natural philosophy."
You know what they used to call science?
"Natural philosophy."
I've read it all. I've studied it all. I've done my essays on this 'evolution' vs 'god' theories. And I've come up with this idea for my own belief:
I'm Catholic and I'm supposed to believe in Adam & Eve and in 7 days God created the world sort of thing. But I don't. I believe in evolution. But I believe that at some point of the evolution of humans something interfeared and gave us the soul. We've got the missing link in men evolution
. Who knows, maybe that was the point where God stepped in.
Don't flame me for my beliefs ^^^ as they're mine to keep
I'm Catholic and I'm supposed to believe in Adam & Eve and in 7 days God created the world sort of thing. But I don't. I believe in evolution. But I believe that at some point of the evolution of humans something interfeared and gave us the soul. We've got the missing link in men evolution
Don't flame me for my beliefs ^^^ as they're mine to keep
i'm sorry, science isn't dogma based on a holy book that can't be questioned. it relys on proof, something that religion does not.
try again.
You know what they did with people who claimed the earth wasn't flat, and that it wasn't the centre of the universe?
Some people just can't live without believing there is some omnipotent being watching over them, without focussing on an afterlife. Others do have brains, and don't need to believe in a non-existent being for security.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
- 126
<<i'm sorry, science isn't dogma based on a holy book that can't be questioned. it relys on proof, something that religion does not.
try again.>>
Science was a pretty closed-minded, closed-loop field only twenty years ago. Don't tell me it relies on proof; I've met too many professionals (your perveyors of science) who still believe in wives tales. One thing for certain is that people were more likely to be experts in their field twenty years ago because each field of study was so much smaller. Younger professionals are just as adept at accepting of whats in books as truth, too, so its impossible to say changes filter down to the masses. No different than your learned of religion.
try again.>>
Science was a pretty closed-minded, closed-loop field only twenty years ago. Don't tell me it relies on proof; I've met too many professionals (your perveyors of science) who still believe in wives tales. One thing for certain is that people were more likely to be experts in their field twenty years ago because each field of study was so much smaller. Younger professionals are just as adept at accepting of whats in books as truth, too, so its impossible to say changes filter down to the masses. No different than your learned of religion.
"Anyone remember a research paper done on the mitochondria and cell membranes of eggs and how there is very little difference from one female's egg to anothers? If I remember their statistics correctly then sometime around 200,000 years ago it was theorized that all mankind originated from the same egg donor.
If these statements are true then mankind is a piss poor litmus test for evolutional theory. "
This is called the African Eve theory, and despite the name, says that there is a 90-99% probability that there was a small original population of 1000-10000 individuals. This is what you would expect since speciation works on small, isolated populations.
Thomas
If these statements are true then mankind is a piss poor litmus test for evolutional theory. "
This is called the African Eve theory, and despite the name, says that there is a 90-99% probability that there was a small original population of 1000-10000 individuals. This is what you would expect since speciation works on small, isolated populations.
Thomas
_____________________________________________________
xirtam: I want some of that pereroni pizza. It seems to have a way of dulling the intuitive need to create quasi-intelligible replies.
You charge a high price for knowledge? Shoot... knowledge is free, and empty tea cups can be had just about anywhere for $.99 after MIR, pricematch, and coupon
____________________________________________________
Why ask for something, explain the use to which you want to put it, and then turn around and display mastery of that very thing.
Knowledge is free. That's a good one. ...an empty tea cup can be had just about anywhere... That's even better. You are, of course telling me all this from an empty cup, right?
Hi linuxboy, Hehe, More wine? All out of glasses here, just pass me that there cup.
xirtam: I want some of that pereroni pizza. It seems to have a way of dulling the intuitive need to create quasi-intelligible replies.
You charge a high price for knowledge? Shoot... knowledge is free, and empty tea cups can be had just about anywhere for $.99 after MIR, pricematch, and coupon
____________________________________________________
Why ask for something, explain the use to which you want to put it, and then turn around and display mastery of that very thing.
Knowledge is free. That's a good one. ...an empty tea cup can be had just about anywhere... That's even better. You are, of course telling me all this from an empty cup, right?
Hi linuxboy, Hehe, More wine? All out of glasses here, just pass me that there cup.
UThomas, there is, I believe, still considerable controversy over whether modern man arose out of africa or whether he arose from separate Homo Erectus popluations on different continents, or a bit of both. There is an argument that Ancient and modern Asians share considerable similar physical features.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
- 126
<<?? science is based on peer review and experimentation. religion is NOT.>>
No, most forms of Christianity are based on the opinions of men. The ecclesiastics use (static) scripture as the evidence whereas the scientist uses (dynamic) research methods to provide evidence. There have been plenty of changes of opinions between popes and even the different generations of Protestant leaderships to say that they do change frequently.
<<The Rat>>
I've reached legendary status. Looks like RD is obsessed with me. I noticed he stalks me on these forums now.
No, most forms of Christianity are based on the opinions of men. The ecclesiastics use (static) scripture as the evidence whereas the scientist uses (dynamic) research methods to provide evidence. There have been plenty of changes of opinions between popes and even the different generations of Protestant leaderships to say that they do change frequently.
<<The Rat>>
I've reached legendary status. Looks like RD is obsessed with me. I noticed he stalks me on these forums now.
But but but, ladies and gentlemen, Format C: is correct. Science went goofey when it sought to find truth as an independent objective observer. That was an act of faith and an arrogant one. There is no independent observer. Why ride the Christians for their belief in a mythical being when you believe in one too.
You effect what you observe. One a bit more intrepid than I might even argue that you are the world, that you create it moment by moment. That is why the computer keeps asking Mr Spock, "How do you feel?"
When you begin to realize that we have states of mind, levels of consciousness from which we can perceive things, the nice little notion of scientific objectivity goes flying out the window. That is why it is very important for the scientist to imagine that his kind of thinking is the normal one, the objective one, because the moment that the notion is introduced that there are superior modes of knowing, he acts just like a Christian faced with the obviousness of evolution. He stops being a scientist and becomes a gymnast.
Don't you just hate it when everything you're ever been taught is wrong.
The only good thing I can think of off hand to say to you is that it does up the time you can spend staring in utter amazment and wonder at the infinite beauty of the world.
Have a glass of wine.
You effect what you observe. One a bit more intrepid than I might even argue that you are the world, that you create it moment by moment. That is why the computer keeps asking Mr Spock, "How do you feel?"
When you begin to realize that we have states of mind, levels of consciousness from which we can perceive things, the nice little notion of scientific objectivity goes flying out the window. That is why it is very important for the scientist to imagine that his kind of thinking is the normal one, the objective one, because the moment that the notion is introduced that there are superior modes of knowing, he acts just like a Christian faced with the obviousness of evolution. He stops being a scientist and becomes a gymnast.
Don't you just hate it when everything you're ever been taught is wrong.
The only good thing I can think of off hand to say to you is that it does up the time you can spend staring in utter amazment and wonder at the infinite beauty of the world.
Have a glass of wine.
Kanalua
Diamond Member
- Jun 14, 2001
- 4,860
- 2
- 81
That article hasn't proven evolution (or anyother "scientific theory), and didn't prove creationism false...so...What was the point?
I mean take any college level Physics or other course and they will tell you that science hasn't answered everything, or much at all...
I mean take any college level Physics or other course and they will tell you that science hasn't answered everything, or much at all...
feel free to add or flame I only want participation either good or bad.
In the beginning there is a VOID!!! or In the beginning there was a GOD!!! (if there was a beginning at all)
Whichever was there something definitely happened and our primitive minds cannot comprehend it.
There was a universal lottery being played within this VOID or being playing by GOD.
The lottery struck a winner and boy was this winner a big one... AKA the big bang theory (fact???? perhaps but no proof)
The payoff was very significant (maybe, depending only your views)
So now this VOID was now a void with stuff. (i.e. subatomic particles)
For those that think stars and planets were created 1 second after the bang... don't be fools... lol
It went klabuuuuuey so everything is in subatomic size so eventually these subatomic size particle starting dancing with the closest subatomic particle and eventually form something that is inclusive of both those sizes.
And yes subatomic orgies happened... ewwww huh?
Billions... not milliions of years.... have passed by since nothing became something and you could imagine all this movement away from "ground zero" is like a giant particle accelerator of some sort.
Lets "ass u me" that when the explosion happen all particle move away at a fairly uniform speed but not exceding that of lightspeed. (If they were going at lightspeed or beyond and it's been several billion years why would we still see stars and yes i know the stars we see are the ghost of lightyears ago... quite a conundrum huh?)
Image a little kid on a wet sandy beach using his shovel and bucket and starting collecting all the particles of sand and molding the sand into this bucket to make his sand castle. In this VOID we need a creator so GOD had to be the one to create everything huh?.... not true because of Sir Isaac Newton we found out about gravity and the pull of gravity that exist when object spins. So like creating a snow ball a tiny object attain more mass the further it travels all due to help from the pull of gravity. (if i'm wrong shoot yourself)
In a kitchen we have lots of ingredients to create tasty dishes or nasty ones more often than not the dishes will come out great. My reasoning is that as humans we learn from our mistake and if you add dead ants to your caesar salad that isn't a very palateable meal is it. We could distinguish what goes great with what. But in this universe full of particles how does one particles determine it's compatibility with another? To compliment another particle the two or more particles must fit like a jigsaw puzzle. (i.e. H2O) Elementary science taught us about Electrons, Neutrons, and our friend the Protons. Is there an infinite combination out there or is there a finite combination that we just haven't completed yet?
Ok getting back on track we have all these things just sitting around in space going about their business. So no what? There got to be a catalyst to start life? What was it? Was it GOD? There's no proof to dismiss GOD and there's no proof to make GOD probable. Well we have a fairly clear picture of what happened in the macro universe but the micro universe is really where the party is. There we encounter phenomenons that have yet to be explained. This road is taking my argument nowhere so I'll skip it.
In conclusion for those who have a simple understanding of how this all came into existence. And for those that believe GOD is responsible for everything.
In the greater scope of existence the quest for us as human is to go beyond that of GOD and conquer all knowledge.(IMHO).
I thank all the people of the world for believing in GOD without a challenge against science we could have been stagnant for thousands of years not doing anything at all important. Religion is important to science because we as scientifically minded people need something to bash on.... lol
P.S. I'LL DENY EVERYTHING I SAID IF IT MAKES ME SOUND STUPID... IF IT IS EDITTED I'D PROBABLY MADE A BOOBOO
In the beginning there is a VOID!!! or In the beginning there was a GOD!!! (if there was a beginning at all)
Whichever was there something definitely happened and our primitive minds cannot comprehend it.
There was a universal lottery being played within this VOID or being playing by GOD.
The lottery struck a winner and boy was this winner a big one... AKA the big bang theory (fact???? perhaps but no proof)
The payoff was very significant (maybe, depending only your views)
So now this VOID was now a void with stuff. (i.e. subatomic particles)
For those that think stars and planets were created 1 second after the bang... don't be fools... lol
It went klabuuuuuey so everything is in subatomic size so eventually these subatomic size particle starting dancing with the closest subatomic particle and eventually form something that is inclusive of both those sizes.
And yes subatomic orgies happened... ewwww huh?
Billions... not milliions of years.... have passed by since nothing became something and you could imagine all this movement away from "ground zero" is like a giant particle accelerator of some sort.
Lets "ass u me" that when the explosion happen all particle move away at a fairly uniform speed but not exceding that of lightspeed. (If they were going at lightspeed or beyond and it's been several billion years why would we still see stars and yes i know the stars we see are the ghost of lightyears ago... quite a conundrum huh?)
Image a little kid on a wet sandy beach using his shovel and bucket and starting collecting all the particles of sand and molding the sand into this bucket to make his sand castle. In this VOID we need a creator so GOD had to be the one to create everything huh?.... not true because of Sir Isaac Newton we found out about gravity and the pull of gravity that exist when object spins. So like creating a snow ball a tiny object attain more mass the further it travels all due to help from the pull of gravity. (if i'm wrong shoot yourself)
In a kitchen we have lots of ingredients to create tasty dishes or nasty ones more often than not the dishes will come out great. My reasoning is that as humans we learn from our mistake and if you add dead ants to your caesar salad that isn't a very palateable meal is it. We could distinguish what goes great with what. But in this universe full of particles how does one particles determine it's compatibility with another? To compliment another particle the two or more particles must fit like a jigsaw puzzle. (i.e. H2O) Elementary science taught us about Electrons, Neutrons, and our friend the Protons. Is there an infinite combination out there or is there a finite combination that we just haven't completed yet?
Ok getting back on track we have all these things just sitting around in space going about their business. So no what? There got to be a catalyst to start life? What was it? Was it GOD? There's no proof to dismiss GOD and there's no proof to make GOD probable. Well we have a fairly clear picture of what happened in the macro universe but the micro universe is really where the party is. There we encounter phenomenons that have yet to be explained. This road is taking my argument nowhere so I'll skip it.
In conclusion for those who have a simple understanding of how this all came into existence. And for those that believe GOD is responsible for everything.
In the greater scope of existence the quest for us as human is to go beyond that of GOD and conquer all knowledge.(IMHO).
I thank all the people of the world for believing in GOD without a challenge against science we could have been stagnant for thousands of years not doing anything at all important. Religion is important to science because we as scientifically minded people need something to bash on.... lol
P.S. I'LL DENY EVERYTHING I SAID IF IT MAKES ME SOUND STUPID... IF IT IS EDITTED I'D PROBABLY MADE A BOOBOO
Upon careful reading of your revised creation story, I paused briefly, flipped my pen, chewed my gum, took a deep breath...
...then asked myself what the heck I just read. I'm guessing you don't have a position, so there's nothing to flame. Cheers!
Oh wait... one interesting point. To go beyond God and conquer all knowledge is the quest of humanity? If there is indeed a "GOD", He would have authored all true knowledge. You can't "transcend" him. And if there is *not* a "GOD", your statement is meaningless. Along with most of the rest of... no... I think I've wasted my time! AHHHHHHHHH! Oh well. Isn't the first time.
...then asked myself what the heck I just read. I'm guessing you don't have a position, so there's nothing to flame. Cheers!
Oh wait... one interesting point. To go beyond God and conquer all knowledge is the quest of humanity? If there is indeed a "GOD", He would have authored all true knowledge. You can't "transcend" him. And if there is *not* a "GOD", your statement is meaningless. Along with most of the rest of... no... I think I've wasted my time! AHHHHHHHHH! Oh well. Isn't the first time.
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