13 US KIA in VBIED Attack in the heart of Kabul

[Nebor]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/29/world/asia/afghanistan-nato-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This is pretty grim. This was one of the safest areas in the country. All the recent attacks in Kabul are making it apparent that the Afghans can't really secure anything. I think we're long past the point where withdrawing was smart; we need to cut and run at this point.

 

[soundforbjt]

The only way to win in Afghanistan is to leave or use nukes (no way would this happen) IIRC, the country has never been successfully defeated. It's un-winnable because of terrain, conventional warfare just won't work there, but try to tell that to generals. Drones are probably the best non-nuke option, but there's no real solution to this country.

 

[Nebor]

The only way to win in Afghanistan is to leave or use nukes (no way would this happen) IIRC, the country has never been successfully defeated. It's un-winnable because of terrain, conventional warfare just won't work there, but try to tell that to generals. Drones are probably the best non-nuke option, but there's no real solution to this country.

There are ways to win, but the generals haven't been running the war in Afghanistan for a long time. Politicians run the war. Most people don't realize that had the US not intervened in the Soviet-Afghan war, the Soviets by all military accounts would have won by decimating the population to such a point that they had no choice but to rely on the Soviets for survival.

 

[child of wonder]

Time to bail. The money can be better waste... I mean.... spent here.

 

[cwjerome]

The sooner we leave the better. The ROEs are worse than Iraq where the JAG in the CAOC seemed like he didn't want us to piss off the enemy by hitting their hide sites. I understand we don't want to kill a fly with a bazooka but with comms and CAS and everyone being on the nets, it's nowhere close to doctrine anyway.

Once upon a time I may have favored mild nation building when feasible, but this assumes there was a "nation" there to begin with. The hell with Afghanistan.

 

[Jhhnn]

There are ways to win, but the generals haven't been running the war in Afghanistan for a long time. Politicians run the war. Most people don't realize that had the US not intervened in the Soviet-Afghan war, the Soviets by all military accounts would have won by decimating the population to such a point that they had no choice but to rely on the Soviets for survival.

Oh, please. That's a gross misrepresentation of the Soviets' role in Afghanistan, and of our own. If they'd wanted to annihilate the population, our support for the mujahedin wouldn't even have slowed them down.

 

[gevorg]

Soviet legacy has been repeated. Time to leave.

 

[Arkaign]

Hate to say 'told you so', but not entirely. I remember getting into huge arguments with fellow conservatives back in '02/'03/'04/'05 about how Afghanistan and later Iraq were just monumental money drains that were neither credible threats after the initial destruction phase, nor worth a single soldier's life afterwards. I got called a liberal, an anti-war/anti-american, etc. Whatever. Shit comes around.

 

[cwjerome]

Hate to say 'told you so', but not entirely. I remember getting into huge arguments with fellow conservatives back in '02/'03/'04/'05 about how Afghanistan and later Iraq were just monumental money drains that were neither credible threats after the initial destruction phase, nor worth a single soldier's life afterwards. I got called a liberal, an anti-war/anti-american, etc. Whatever. Shit comes around.

I hear you... I was not so opposed to Iraq as to the methodology of the campaign, which I think sucked and expressed vigorously at the time. Unfortunately cutting and running after the initial debacle seemed wrong in this case. Afghanistan clicked for me when I realized we were actually trying to build a real nation about 2004-2005. WTF?

 

[dmcowen674]

13 US KIA in VBIED Attack in the heart of Kabul


Very sad

Especially since so many radical righties support us being there to begin with.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Thoughts and prayers to the families that lost loved ones in this attack.

13 US KIA in VBIED Attack in the heart of Kabul


Very sad

Especially since so many radical righties support us being there to begin with.

Obama is a radical righty? Keep in mind that Kabul is in Afghanistan, not Iraq...
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00281

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 107th Congress - 1st Session
as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate
Vote Summary
Question: On the Joint Resolution (S.J. Res. 23 )
Vote Number: 281 Vote Date: September 14, 2001, 10:44 AM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Joint Resolution Passed
Vote Counts: YEAs 98
NAYs 0
Not Voting 2

 

[Nebor]

Oh, please. That's a gross misrepresentation of the Soviets' role in Afghanistan, and of our own. If they'd wanted to annihilate the population, our support for the mujahedin wouldn't even have slowed them down.

They were in the process of annihilating the population through means that didn't attract too much international outcry. We made it far too costly in terms of Soviet lives and equipment for them to continue with that method. They killed more than 10% of the population, and disabled many more. They were subjugating the Afghans.

 

[Jhhnn]

They were in the process of annihilating the population through means that didn't attract too much international outcry. We made it far too costly in terms of Soviet lives and equipment for them to continue with that method. They killed more than 10% of the population, and disabled many more. They were subjugating the Afghans.

You couldn't substantiate that if your life depended on it.

various estimates-

http://necrometrics.com/20c1m.htm#Afghanistan

If they'd been annihilating civilians, the population curve wouldn't look like this, either-

http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...y:AFG&dl=en&hl=en&q=population+of+afghanistan

 

[Nebor]

You couldn't substantiate that if your life depended on it.

various estimates-

http://necrometrics.com/20c1m.htm#Afghanistan

If they'd been annihilating civilians, the population curve wouldn't look like this, either-

http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...y:AFG&dl=en&hl=en&q=population+of+afghanistan

Look at your own data. During the Soviet invasion the population was half of what it is today (around 15m people) and between 1 and 2 million were killed in the war, with several million more disabled.

None of this is relevant since the US hasn't openly engaged in that type of warfare in ~20 years and it's considered politically untenable.

I'm pretty sure we can all agree that we need to pull out of Afghanistan ASAP, since there's nothing there worth the life of a US soldier. My facebook is lit up today by people in Kabul and those of us that used to work in the vicinity of the bombing wondering when we're going to give up on that place.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Obama is a radical righty? Keep in mind that Kabul is in Afghanistan, not Iraq...
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00281

Obama wasn't in the US Senate until 2005, so I don't understand your point.

However you are right that the Democrats supported action against the Taliban for harboring Bin Laden. However we are far past that point now. The ball was dropped long ago and any semblance of that original mission is far gone; we need to get out now.

 

[Craig234]

13 US KIA in VBIED Attack in the heart of Kabul


Very sad

Especially since so many radical righties support us being there to begin with.

As others have said, the pursuit of Al Queda was a very bi-partisan effort. As I recall, one member of Congress, Barbara Lee, voted against it.

 

[Orignal Earl]

we need to cut and run at this point.

This has become the US mil moto now.

 

[Double Trouble]

This has become the US mil moto now.

This isn't a military problem, but we're trying to use the military to fix it. That's why it doesn't work. The military is not meant for building stuff, it is built to most quickly and efficiently destroy things and people.

 

[Craig234]

This isn't a military problem, but we're trying to use the military to fix it. That's why it doesn't work. The military is not meant for building stuff, it is built to most quickly and efficiently destroy things and people.

Nice sales pitch for where we should invest our wealth in spending as much as the rest of the world combined.

 

[Orignal Earl]

This isn't a military problem, but we're trying to use the military to fix it. That's why it doesn't work. The military is not meant for building stuff, it is built to most quickly and efficiently destroy things and people.

Which really comes down to like 1% of the US military force.
You don't need a hundred thousand army infantry to launch missiles, and that's where American power really is, in the tech.
Hipsters putting on uniforms does not make an army

The Military can never really fail. There just too many other people to blame for everything
Muslims, Mexicans, Mormons, Libs, Hipsters, Bushy, Obama, Texas,Wall street, Chevy ( not Chase, he's ok)

 

[Nebor]

Which really comes down to like 1% of the US military force.
You don't need a hundred thousand army infantry to launch missiles, and that's where American power really is, in the tech.
Hipsters putting on uniforms does not make an army

The Military can never really fail. There just too many other people to blame for everything
Muslims, Mexicans, Mormons, Libs, Hipsters, Bushy, Obama, Texas,Wall street, Chevy ( not Chase, he's ok)

Please, put on a uniform and come show us how it's done. 🙄

 

[Nebor]

This has become the US mil moto now.

Really? I didn't realize that. Must have been confused by the decade long, 2 front war we're in. Thanks for filling me in.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Please, put on a uniform and come show us how it's done. 🙄

Even in my present condition and age, I have no doubt I could.

 

[Nebor]

Even in my present condition and age, I have no doubt I could.

If you haven't done it by now, you're all talk.

 

[Orignal Earl]

If you haven't done it by now, you're all talk.

The US was not invading any countries when I was the right age.
But I was born and bred with a heavy mil mindset.
Small town redneck, could shoot the eyelash off a mosquito
Cubs, Scouts, Air Cadets,Navy Cadets (had to drive a couple hundred miles to get to Army, so it was no go)
Fingerprinted and put into gov files by the time I was ten.
Swore my allegiance to God and the Queen, country.
I was top in every class, I was off to join the air force
But I knocked up the first ol lady, and my life went another direction

By the time my eldest son was old enough to go off to Afghanistan ( yes I raised him the same way) I had seen enough and knew enough that it was a bad idea.
All his friends were taking off and everything I had taught him meant he should go too
But by then, I knew it was going to be a ditch job by the US
That was well before you decided you needed to get some fake honor
I saved him a lot of shame in the future.

You probably don't understand shame, because you were taught that nothing is your fault, its the Muslims,Mexicans,Mormons fault