$13,000 made during year, $9k tax return..

[dank69]

Ah don't worry, she is just trying REALLY hard to get back up on her feet. All she needs is a little more. Then next year a little more. She is striving EXTRA EXTRA hard.

No no - don't take any away. Don't let them sink or swim. That would make sense. And we in the United States of Takers can't have that.

Someone in that situation is done. The odds of ever escaping it are next to zero. 4 kids = ~800/week in daycare if he/she wants to go to work and there is no way someone without serious education and/or skills is going to clear enough to ever make it worth it.

So we, as a society, have to decide if we are going to help the kids that are in that situation through no fault of their own.

 

[lotus503]

Yes, but this thread is about people abusing/scamming the system, and by your own admittance, you're glad to help those people. I'm simply saying, I'm willing to let you directly help more people, getting them the most bang for your buck, and asking how much you're in for. I'm not understanding why you're not jumping at this chance???

I certainly think the military can be scaled back (and that's coming from someone who views the Fed as a necessary evil, who's one of few sole things it carries over the States is National Defense), but I'm also not happy in the least watching a system purposefully be setup and maintained to help voting leeches on society keep leeching. Something the Fed most certainly should not be involved with.

Now, how much can I tell each of these people you're in for? $50k in Fed tax dollars alone last year (and that'd be after deductions)? How about $2k per household? You trust me right?

You scenrio relys on me believing the private sector is better at managing welfare in which I have already stated I dont think it is. Ever try and consolodate data accross thousands of intututions for actual meaningful analisys?

There is definetly waste and abuse in the welfare system, im good with addressing that, doesnt mean it needs to be cut to do that, and it doesnt mean private not for profit is better at providing that.

For every stupid welfare queeen there are kids that didnt ask to have a shitty parent, im not good with those kids not getting what they need to trive.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Someone in that situation is done. The odds of ever escaping it are next to zero. 4 kids = ~800/week in daycare if he/she wants to go to work and there is no way someone without serious education and/or skills is going to clear enough to ever make it worth it.

So we, as a society, have to decide if we are going to help the kids that are in that situation through no fault of their own.

I would rather put those kids up for adoption and leave her to starve (after mandatory neutering) if the children are your concern. Obviously her as the mother is of no concern to the kids success. But to be honest... with 30k... 4 kids.... it's do-able. You can't enjoy cable TV or McDonalds every week, but it's doable. Your doubt is what makes their refusal to try.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I know, welfare queens got it made dont they?

Yea, 30k with kids to feed is the life isn't it?

People want stuff like this to be a rarity rather than a growing trend? Fix the system that's squeezing the middle class.

 

[chucky2]

Someone in that situation is done. The odds of ever escaping it are next to zero. 4 kids = ~800/week in daycare if he/she wants to go to work and there is no way someone without serious education and/or skills is going to clear enough to ever make it worth it.

So we, as a society, have to decide if we are going to help the kids that are in that situation through no fault of their own.

Sorry, the job she could have had that she would have qualified for has long been outsourced. The Corp wanted to pocket the extra profits, and her the rest of the US decided they liked being able to buy the next cheap throwaway item. This assumes of course the system would be setup to force her to actually get a job to support herself and her dependents, and then of course assumes that she in fact would reliably go to and perform said job.

All very very large assumptions...

 

[jackstar7]

Lack of ambition, lack of life goals,,,.

Some people are quit[sic] happy to live in filth, some people are happy to work as little as possible and let the government take care of them.

Here is an example from NPR

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/11/155103593/to-beat-odds-poor-single-moms-need-wide-safety-net

So you both have ascribed these traits to all of these people? And what leads them to lack ambition? I get the impression that people are saying that because there's a safety net these people choose this lifestyle of poverty and societal pariah/parasite status...you know... because of the glamor.

I don't understand how you make the leaps of logic without some further examination of the situation. Seems both callous and careless.

 

[dank69]

I would rather put those kids up for adoption and leave her to starve (after mandatory neutering) if the children are your concern. Obviously her as the mother is of no concern to the kids success. But to be honest... with 30k... 4 kids.... it's do-able. You can't enjoy cable TV or McDonalds every week, but it's doable. Your doubt is what makes their refusal to try.

Aren't you a fucking libertarian? You want to give the government the power to take kids away from their mother? Do those two value systems line up in your head? And what do you mean 30k 4 kids is "doable"?

 

[Mxylplyx]

It's not forced to starve of course. The loving community it's born into, along with the deep family structure, will of course take care of it.

Is this a joke? Many of these poor communities are broken. These structures you speak of don't exist. How would a person ever break themselves or their children out of poverty if they always have to wonder who's going to give them their next meal?

 

[lotus503]

I paid almost 8k in Federal this year......and after doing some preliminary figuring, looks like I'm going to be sending in about 2K more....I really should just quit working and start gaming the system

and that honestly is the mentality thats wrong with this country.

Too worried about what other people get not worried enough about your own situation in life.

Ahh some one is getting free shit waaaa, I want free shit too.

Its like the people that bitch about having a salary thats less then the next guy, why is it my fault you dont know how to negotiate better pay?

 

[Texashiker]

So you both have ascribed these traits to all of these people? And what leads them to lack ambition? I get the impression that people are saying that because there's a safety net these people choose this lifestyle of poverty and societal pariah/parasite status...you know... because of the glamor.

I know several families that live in poverty. As in always on welfare or having to borrow gas money poverty.

The common factor is a lack of drive.

Neither family wants to do anything to improve their situation.

A buddy of mine called it the "comfort grove." We get comfortable in our setting and have no desire to improve unless we have to.

 

[chucky2]

You scenrio relys on me believing the private sector is better at managing welfare in which I have already stated I dont think it is. Ever try and consolodate data accross thousands of intututions for actual meaningful analisys?

I don't think the private sector is better at managing welfare - unless there was money to be made at it. And, I'd not setup a system that would make money on welfare, as it should be as close to neutral as humanly possible. I'm simply saying, you said you're glad these folks are getting money. If that makes you glad, I can directly make you more glad in the same manner, no worries on wasting some of your coin on Gov inefficiency! This is direct giving, you can't get any better than that! Would you not be more glad??

And, I work in IT for an extremely large company with even more extremely large datasets. So yeah, the answer is Yes (although, not lately).

There is definetly waste and abuse in the welfare system, im good with addressing that, doesnt mean it needs to be cut to do that, and it doesnt mean private not for profit is better at providing that.

For every stupid welfare queeen there are kids that didnt ask to have a shitty parent, im not good with those kids not getting what they need to trive.

I never said private for profit was better at doing that. Ever.

As far as the kids thriving, good luck with that. Statistically, they'll grow up just like their dumb@ss and irresponsible parents. Africa should be a perfect example of this: Can't feed themselves, have aids, no welfare safety net, still having kids. Now transport same basic human mindset to the US, where there is a known safety net, and, even better, a safety net that gets you sh1t.

If it makes you feel any better, I'd apply the same thing to Lockheed and the F-35, a $1.4T experiment in Corp welfare.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

Is this a joke? Many of these poor communities are broken. These structures you speak of don't exist. How would a person ever break themselves or their children out of poverty if they always have to wonder who's going to give them their next meal?

Impossible. These communities have been collecting mass welfare along with mass social costs for generations now. If the system you support works as you purport (else, why continue with it?), then these would be fine communities to grow up in. Hey, have you ever hung out in Ford Heights?

 

[lotus503]

I know several families that live in poverty. As in always on welfare or having to borrow gas money poverty.

The common factor is a lack of drive.

Neither family wants to do anything to improve their situation.

A buddy of mine called it the "comfort grove." We get comfortable in our setting and have no desire to improve unless we have to.

Its also a lack of education, training and the very real perception you can better your situation. My wife works with poor people, some of them frankly the scum of the earth ex cons etc., and then lot with mental/ sunstance abuse issues etc.


You woudl think with the infrastucture issues in this country we could find a way for society as a whole to benefit more from provided servcies.

at the core that the real issue right? society not getting back what its putting in? then just the very real consideration there will always be scum sucking off of everyone else, however I dont think cutting those folks off and letting them rob your house to survive is the best solution either.

 

[exdeath]

Someone in that situation is done. The odds of ever escaping it are next to zero. 4 kids = ~800/week in daycare if he/she wants to go to work and there is no way someone without serious education and/or skills is going to clear enough to ever make it worth it.

So we, as a society, have to decide if we are going to help the kids that are in that situation through no fault of their own.

Asians do it all that time. They rely on family to help one another while they get an education or start a business.

Why don't other minority groups do it?

To busy texting fuck buddies and watching TV.

 

[PrinceofWands]

so, by my math, $30k to raise 4 kids?

lol, that would really suck.

~55% of Americans make that or less, so it would be the norm, not a surprise.

 

[lotus503]

I don't think the private sector is better at managing welfare - unless there was money to be made at it. And, I'd not setup a system that would make money on welfare, as it should be as close to neutral as humanly possible. I'm simply saying, you said you're glad these folks are getting money. If that makes you glad, I can directly make you more glad in the same manner, no worries on wasting some of your coin on Gov inefficiency! This is direct giving, you can't get any better than that! Would you not be more glad??

And, I work in IT for an extremely large company with even more extremely large datasets. So yeah, the answer is Yes (although, not lately).





I never said private for profit was better at doing that. Ever.

As far as the kids thriving, good luck with that. Statistically, they'll grow up just like their dumb@ss and irresponsible parents. Africa should be a perfect example of this: Can't feed themselves, have aids, no welfare safety net, still having kids. Now transport same basic human mindset to the US, where there is a known safety net, and, even better, a safety net that gets you sh1t.

If it makes you feel any better, I'd apply the same thing to Lockheed and the F-35, a $1.4T experiment in Corp welfare.

Chuck

Since you have worked with large datasets and had to streamline informa tion in a manner it can be measured and evlauated you should understand that a single goverment system that provides that ability along with standards is superior to a system of thousands of non profits with all manners of policy/procudure systems would be much harder to maintain and control, it would lead to more waste as you would be adding componets and compelxity where is doesnt currently exist.

then talk about fraud, lets introduce other ways to game the system in additon to what we have now. If your argument is just get rid of welfare and let charity take over, you have a lot more faith than I do.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Aren't you a fucking libertarian? You want to give the government the power to take kids away from their mother? Do those two value systems line up in your head? And what do you mean 30k 4 kids is "doable"?

I would rather see them starve to death (or rather, sink/swim - which 99% will swim), but that will never fly with the motherhood foundation of The Socialist States of Americuh - so why even shoot for it?

And to clarify: 4 Kids with $30k annually is definitely within reason to survive/prosper. It might take some work. It might take some initiative. But it's more than plausible for anyone that has any guilt in taking other people's money.

 

[jackstar7]

I know several families that live in poverty. As in always on welfare or having to borrow gas money poverty.

The common factor is a lack of drive.

Neither family wants to do anything to improve their situation.

A buddy of mine called it the "comfort grove." We get comfortable in our setting and have no desire to improve unless we have to.

How does is go from several to neither? Is it two families?

What leads to someone accepting comfortable? What kind of chaos must one live in to find comfortable/stable to be the ideal?

I believe it goes deeper than this superficial analysis.

 

[exdeath]

It was easy for me. I grew up not affording things I wanted. Not having that problem as an adult became my only goal in life.

It's pretty simple: keep your fucking legs shut until you're out of school and have a job.

 

[Texashiker]

I believe it goes deeper than this superficial analysis.

Are you implying the lack of drive is a superficial analysis?

 

[lotus503]

I would rather see them starve to death (or rather, sink/swim - which 99% will swim), but that will never fly with the motherhood foundation of The Socialist States of Americuh - so why even shoot for it?

And to clarify: 4 Kids with $30k annually is definitely within reason to survive/prosper. It might take some work. It might take some initiative. But it's more than plausible for anyone that has any guilt in taking other people's money.

you woudl rather see kids starve to death, tossed into some darwinian survival of the fittest situation where an arbitrary out of your ass %99 will swim. no some would die, some would come murder your ass for food.

Some would steal, some would prosper.


in any event its not going to happen, so start thinking of ways to fix whats broken while still providing for starving kids.

 

[nehalem256]

So long as we know who to blame that child's suffering is OK, right?

You are a monster.

So a woman CHOOSES to have a child that she cannot fed...

Yeah lets blame nehalem that makes total sense :\

So you both have ascribed these traits to all of these people? And what leads them to lack ambition? I get the impression that people are saying that because there's a safety net these people choose this lifestyle of poverty and societal pariah/parasite status...you know... because of the glamor.

I don't understand how you make the leaps of logic without some further examination of the situation. Seems both callous and careless.

Ok lets consider. There would seem to be 3 scenarios.

(1) The woman profiled is the best case scenario they can find.
(2) The woman profiled is a representative scenario
(3) The woman profiled is the worst case scenario.

Given that the article is published by NPR hardly a radical right-wing news source I think it is reasonable to discard (3). Given that she therefore represents case (2) or (3) I think it is fair to use as an example of the problems with government benefits.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

you woudl rather see kids starve to death, tossed into some darwinian survival of the fittest situation where an arbitrary out of your ass %99 will swim. no some would die, some would come murder your ass for food.

Some would steal, some would prosper.


in any event its not going to happen, so start thinking of ways to fix whats broken while still providing for starving kids.

OH LOOKS ITS THE ATTEMPTED GUILT TRIP! Where have I seen you? Oh, only in every liberal speech from Obongo.

What are you doing about the starving villages in Africa? How about the war conflict in Egypt? WHAT ABOUT THE POOR CHINA/INDIA FACTORY WORKERS?! Oh... wait... you're not doing anything about those? Than shut the fuck up about random children that just happen to be in your country you insufferable retard.

 

[Engineer]

EITC + child tax credits

From what I just read, the child tax credits can reduce your owed tax to ZERO but cannot be refunded in excess (in other words, you cannot make money on them). Doesn't that rule out the child tax credits in this case?

If so, I do not understand how this person can get a $9,000 refund. There is little chance that this person paid in over $3,000 in FIT during the year. Doesn't add up at all.

With that said, the EITC is a pile of shit. I guess it's better than pure welfare in that someone is working but seems this person is still getting as much as would be in welfare. SMH

 

[lotus503]

OH LOOKS ITS THE ATTEMPTED GUILT TRIP! Where have I seen you? Oh, only in every liberal speech from Obongo.

What are you doing about the starving villages in Africa? How about the war conflict in Egypt? WHAT ABOUT THE POOR CHINA/INDIA FACTORY WORKERS?! Oh... wait... you're not doing anything about those? Than shut the fuck up about random children that just happen to be in your country you insufferable retard.

I care about people in my own community/state/country first and foremost.

Its not a guilt trip rather the reality of your comments, your a miserable fuck, its plain to see. dont blame me that your an insufferable prick that makes so little you care about keeping %5 of your tax money at the sake of starving the children of your countrymen.