• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

12 or 10" sub for my car?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
You can get the Adire Shiva here for $175 CAD SHIPPED.
All you'd need to do is stop by a local car stereo shop or, in the worst case, worstbuy/futurecrud and get a 1.5cf sealed box for ~$75.

In that box, the Shiva will handle your amps 460watts no problem.

For that money, you won't be able to beat the depth, accuracy and power handling of the sub. Only the Infinity Kappa Perfect 12 comes close... that futureshop sells for ~$400cad...

<edit>
Often times deeper is confused for "warmer" or "sloppier", whereas a bit of boominess (usually due to the box being too small) helps to give the impression of "punchiness", which is often confused with accuracy/sound quality.

The Shiva will simply sound deep while maintaing good sound quality at any amount of power your amp can put out. </edit>
 
Viperoni: What size enclosure should I get? Also so I get a prefab box or not? Can I make my own?



Also, I currently have an old kicker sub in there. And when I put my volume not even half way my lights dim (including my head lights at night). Would a batter with more AMPs solve that, or do I need to get a capacitor for the amp?


Thanks
 
Originally posted by: glen
Originally posted by: virtuamike
For your kind of music, I'd take the e12k.14 over the Shiva. Shiva fills out the low end more but is lacking in terms of bass for rock. I'd go with single 4 design since it matches your amp better, power should be fine.

Linky

I've never ordered a box from SpeakerHole before but this is generally what you're looking for. 1.0cu sealed 0.75 MDF construction.

Ported, I wouldn't buy a pre-fab box. Reason being every sub is different, with ported boxes you really need to pay attention to recommended enclosure sizes. For your music I'd stick with a sealed box since you'll want tigher bass with rock. And I'd definatly go with e12k over Kicker and Infinity, the sound is that much better (more accurate, cleaner sound).

Nothing wrong with the Shiva, just that it requires a bigger enclosure. In exchange you get more extension, but it's a slower sub than the e12k, not as great for rock.
Click to expand...

Not as good for rock...
slower...
accurate...
cleaner...

all sort of vague terms.
no physics involved.
no science.
You have been listening to the audio salesmen haven't you?
Click to expand...

It's a subjective thing. A slow sub has problems reproducing consecutive beats. Let's say you're listening to rock, and there's a bunch of drum beats. If you have a slow sub, the first beat sounds fine, but each one after that will sound muddled, like doom .. duh .. duh .. duh. A faster sub will produce the notes so you get doom .. doom .. doom .. doom.

I can't explain it in scientific/physic terms, it's something I can point out if hearing subs side by side. My friend has a Shiva, that's where the criticism comes from. Helped him tune it and listened to a bunch of music on it, and it sounded slow. I'm not going by general consensus, I'm going by personal experience.

There's a reason people use Shiva's in HT. It's great at reproducing low end, so explosions and booms are awesome. It's a great sub for car audio too if you're listening to rap, but personally I don't like the way it sounds with rock. It's not a tight sub, the notes sound loose and not as accurate.

Me, I have an IDMax in my car, and honestly it's more accurate than the Energy EXL-S12 in my apt. I'm not an audio salesman by any means, but I've listened to enough subs to know what sounds good and what doesn't for different music tastes.

And no, you shouldn't have linked the Brahma when he has a $200 budget.
 
Originally posted by: jsbush
Viperoni: What size enclosure should I get? Also so I get a prefab box or not? Can I make my own?



Also, I currently have an old kicker sub in there. And when I put my volume not even half way my lights dim (including my head lights at night). Would a batter with more AMPs solve that, or do I need to get a capacitor for the amp?


Thanks
Click to expand...

1.5cf seems to be a really popular number amount Shiva owners.
Something like 1.3cf will give you a bit more "punch" or boom, which you may like, whereas something like 2cf will give you a fair bit more depth, with less "punch" and more accurate bass in general.

For your application and listener type, I'd recommend the 1.5cf. Sealed box of course 😉

A prefab 1.5cf sealed box will be fine... it probably wouldn't pay off for you to build your own box after you count all the materials, including carpet and the $15 a can adhesive 😉

A thicker power wire (you should be running 4guage), and replacing your underhood power wiring with thicker wiring would help get rid of the dimming lights.
Once that's done, an cap can help, but it does put more strain on the electrical system based on the way it works.
You are FAR better off upgrading underhood wiring than by (wasting) your money on a cap at this point.
 
Originally posted by: jsbush
Whats the difference between an enclosure with an air hole or without?
Click to expand...

Without air hole: deepest bass is better, but mid bass is worse
With air hole: mid bass is better, but deepest bass is muddy

That's as simple as I can get it.

 
Originally posted by: jsbush
Viperoni: What size enclosure should I get? Also so I get a prefab box or not? Can I make my own?



Also, I currently have an old kicker sub in there. And when I put my volume not even half way my lights dim (including my head lights at night). Would a batter with more AMPs solve that, or do I need to get a capacitor for the amp?


Thanks
Click to expand...

I make my own stuff, but I use CAD programs. I'll try to find a DOS utility I use called Perfect Box. As soon as I find the floppy I'll try to post it for you.

 
I have 10gauge power wire right now. So I'll get some 4gauge wire (how many amp fuse to I put on there?). Whats under the hood power wiring? My head unit also dims with or without subs when I crank it about half way.


Thanks.
 
Originally posted by: Viperoni
Originally posted by: jsbush
Viperoni: What size enclosure should I get? Also so I get a prefab box or not? Can I make my own?



Also, I currently have an old kicker sub in there. And when I put my volume not even half way my lights dim (including my head lights at night). Would a batter with more AMPs solve that, or do I need to get a capacitor for the amp?


Thanks
Click to expand...

1.5cf seems to be a really popular number amount Shiva owners.
Something like 1.3cf will give you a bit more "punch" or boom, which you may like, whereas something like 2cf will give you a fair bit more depth, with less "punch" and more accurate bass in general.

For your application and listener type, I'd recommend the 1.5cf. Sealed box of course 😉

A prefab 1.5cf sealed box will be fine... it probably wouldn't pay off for you to build your own box after you count all the materials, including carpet and the $15 a can adhesive 😉

A thicker power wire (you should be running 4guage), and replacing your underhood power wiring with thicker wiring would help get rid of the dimming lights.
Once that's done, an cap can help, but it does put more strain on the electrical system based on the way it works.
You are FAR better off upgrading underhood wiring than by (wasting) your money on a cap at this point.
Click to expand...

You're describing exactly what I installed in my friend's Maxima and where my opinions are coming from. 2.0cu sealed, we were going after depth. To me, the sub just wasn't fast enough. Like I said the extension was great and if we kept the crossover at 60 it would've been perfect, but if we did that we woud've had a gap because although his 4" fronts run full range they really tail off around 80. Had to run the crossover at 80, and in the 60-80 range it's not a fast sub. If we had fronts that could reproduce down to 60 and the Shiva was producing what it was designed for sure, we wouldn't have had a problem. But if the e12k can produce up to 80 fine for the same price than why not just go with that instead?

And I guess I used the wrong word earlier, like I said it's hard to describe how a sub sounds. I was using accurate in the context of the sub's speed, not in the context of how well it produces low notes as Viper uses it. What I was trying to describe was how the Shiva seemed to struggle when doing a rapid succession of notes.

If you're gonna go with the Shiva, go 1.7cu sealed. After driver displacement you'll be around 1.6 which is a good size for it. You can run a little bigger than 1.5 for rock.
 
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
I make my own stuff, but I use CAD programs. I'll try to find a DOS utility I use called Perfect Box. As soon as I find the floppy I'll try to post it for you.
Click to expand...

As promised:
http://honors.saintleo.edu/durette/speaker/
(two files in directory listing)

DISCLAIMER: I don't warranty this against blowing up your computer or containing viruses, etc. It's been a couple of years since I touched this stuff, and I don't remember anything about these files. All I remember is what I wrote in the text files as notes to myself: It's the best stuff I've found so far for custom jobs.

Can somebody run those through a virus scan and post here the status?
 
Originally posted by: jsbush
I have 10gauge power wire right now. So I'll get some 4gauge wire (how many amp fuse to I put on there?). Whats under the hood power wiring? My head unit also dims with or without subs when I crank it about half way.


Thanks.
Click to expand...

Wire is wire, in general you're not gonna magically get more power by upgrading how thick everything is. Your amp is 400W at full load, meaning you're drawing 28-33A max, 40A fuse will be fine. If your headunit dims at half volume without a sub installed (which I assume means amp draws no power since it has nothing to drive), then it's a problem with your HU drawing too much power for the line it's on, not a problem with the electrical as a whole. I dunno if it's worth the hassle, but you could run power directly to the headunit like your amp, that'll get rid of the dimming.
 
Anyone have any comments regarding the NHT 1259 sub? I was thinking of putting one in a 3.5 cu. ft. box for a home audio system.
 
Originally posted by: virtuamike
Originally posted by: jsbush
I have 10gauge power wire right now. So I'll get some 4gauge wire (how many amp fuse to I put on there?). Whats under the hood power wiring? My head unit also dims with or without subs when I crank it about half way.


Thanks.
Click to expand...

Wire is wire, in general you're not gonna magically get more power by upgrading how thick everything is. Your amp is 400W at full load, meaning you're drawing 28-33A max, 40A fuse will be fine. If your headunit dims at half volume without a sub installed (which I assume means amp draws no power since it has nothing to drive), then it's a problem with your HU drawing too much power for the line it's on, not a problem with the electrical as a whole. I dunno if it's worth the hassle, but you could run power directly to the headunit like your amp, that'll get rid of the dimming.
Click to expand...

But what about the dimming of everything in the car when the amp is on? I'll use the 10gauge wire I have for my amp to power my headunit and I'll get 4gauge wire just for the amp. (the 10gauge wire currently has 30amp fuse on it). Should that solve my problem?



Ok so I'm gonna order the Shiva sub that Viperoni recommended, and i'm going to get a prefab box at a local electronics store. But 1.7cu or 1.5cu? What I like about bass the most is the thump. Like single drum beats.

Also what kind of wiring for the sub?
 
Originally posted by: jsbush
I have 10gauge power wire right now. So I'll get some 4gauge wire (how many amp fuse to I put on there?). Whats under the hood power wiring? My head unit also dims with or without subs when I crank it about half way.


Thanks.
Click to expand...

A 60amp fuse would be plenty. The fuse simply protects the power wire from shorting out in the event of an accident when the wire gets cut.

Underhood power wires are:
Alternator to battery + power wire (probably the most important)
Battery to chassis ground (also important, the power has to get back to the battery afterall)
Engine to chassis ground (not as important)

kevinthenerd, you have some serious misconceptions about subs and box design theory.

Virtualmike,

That's wierd. Is it possible that the amps "80hz" setting was higher than that (IE: amp's inaccurate crossover labeling)? the JBL class D are known for such a mislabeling, and for cruddy crossovers to begin with. Also, what was the slope of the crossover? Assuming 12db/octave @ 60hz in a big car like a maxima, you wouldn't be hearing very much midbass ("punchiness") at all.

I'm using "accurate" the way it should be used to describe a sub: smooth frequency response, low compression, low and smooth group delay. Group delay is a time measure between when the sub receives a signal input and plays it: a low and smooth, emphasis being on smooth, group delay graph indicates that the bass response won't be "muddied" when you have a bunch of closely spaced but different frequency bass notes. As I said, subs a LOT more complicated than cones moving back and forth, and there's a ton of physics behind what you hear.
 
Originally posted by: jsbush
Originally posted by: virtuamike
Originally posted by: jsbush
I have 10gauge power wire right now. So I'll get some 4gauge wire (how many amp fuse to I put on there?). Whats under the hood power wiring? My head unit also dims with or without subs when I crank it about half way.


Thanks.
Click to expand...

Wire is wire, in general you're not gonna magically get more power by upgrading how thick everything is. Your amp is 400W at full load, meaning you're drawing 28-33A max, 40A fuse will be fine. If your headunit dims at half volume without a sub installed (which I assume means amp draws no power since it has nothing to drive), then it's a problem with your HU drawing too much power for the line it's on, not a problem with the electrical as a whole. I dunno if it's worth the hassle, but you could run power directly to the headunit like your amp, that'll get rid of the dimming.
Click to expand...

But what about the dimming of everything in the car when the amp is on? I'll use the 10gauge wire I have for my amp to power my headunit and I'll get 4gauge wire just for the amp. (the 10gauge wire currently has 30amp fuse on it). Should that solve my problem?



Ok so I'm gonna order the Shiva sub that Viperoni recommended, and i'm going to get a prefab box at a local electronics store. But 1.7cu or 1.5cu? What I like about bass the most is the thump. Like single drum beats.

Also what kind of wiring for the sub?
Click to expand...



*sigh*

Assuming that amp does draw 30amps, and he has a 15foot long power lead, 10amps is very small.
What ends up happening is the amps power supply section needs to draw a certain wattage. When it can't get enough current from the undersized power cable, it starts drawing more voltage (since wattage == current times voltage). When that voltage drop happens, you seem the dimming lights. By upgrading the entire electrical path (amp power wire, alternator power wire, grounds), you increase the flow of electricity not only to the amp, but to the parts of the car that produce and store the electricity. Remember that if the amp needs more power than the alternator can produce, power gets sucked from the battery... that's why upgrading the alternator -> battery power wire is always a good idea.

That should solve your problem, but it's pretty odd that your deck is dimming... seems to be a reasonable quality unit as well.

The difference between 1.7 and 1.5 will be small, but I'd still recommend the 1.5cf since a lot of people tend to like the "punchiness" of smaller enclosures. If you find you want more depth, you could always fill the box with some pillow stuffing (as this will make the sub think it's in a slightly bigger box).
 
That should solve your problem, but it's pretty odd that your deck is dimming... seems to be a reasonable quality unit as well.
Click to expand...

How can I solve this problem? Should I first try change the ground wire for the battery and the power wire for the alternator first? Then if that doesn't help the dimming on my head unit what do I do?


Thanks.

 
Originally posted by: jsbush
That should solve your problem, but it's pretty odd that your deck is dimming... seems to be a reasonable quality unit as well.
Click to expand...

How can I solve this problem? Should I first try change the ground wire for the battery and the power wire for the alternator first? Then if that doesn't help the dimming on my head unit what do I do?


Thanks.
Click to expand...

For the deck dimming I would change the power wire going to the deck first... the factory wiring is usually 14-18g, so it can't handle much power. Also try to improve the deck's ground (IE: take the ground wire from the deck and ground it to something like the firewall, being sure to sand the paint off down to the bare metal). If that doesn't do it, I'd be tempted to think it's something with the deck.
 
Ok well I'm ording the Shiva sub. Putting in 4gauge wire to the sub and 10gauge wire to my headunit. And I"m getting a prefab 1.5cf box.

I'll let you all know how it sounds when the sub arrives. Thanks for all your help.


Oh one more question. If I run a power wire straight from the battery from my head unit, is there anyway to get it to turn off when I turn the key to the off position? I'm scared I'm gonna forget to turn it off.

Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top