12-25-2003: Dean to take on Athiests - ATers will not be happy

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: aswedc
I was going to vote for Dean, but after this and "Our alliance with Israel is and must remain unshakeable" I'm not so sure hes any better than Bush.

so are you saying its a bad thing to be a man of faith? and that its a bad thing to stick next to your allies?
would you rather an aethiest or agnostic be President and try to shove those views upon the land? and that we turn away from [or even backstab!?] our ally?

i see no problem if Dean or Bush wants to believe in one religion or another, as long as he doesnt try and force me to believe whatever he believes is right, and I agree wholeheartedly that our alliance with Israel needs to be unshakeable. I appalaud Dean for saying these things, lets hope he can act on them in a correct manner.

We have a lot of Athiets/Agnostics in here and they push their Agenda as hard as the whacko Judge in Alabama so they are just as bad as him.

It all boils down that they all can't read. They take "Freedom OF Religion" and read it as either Freedom to PROMOTE Religion and Freedom FROM religion.

OT here, why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?

"why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?"

Sounds like you would enjoy and live fine under the Taliban Regime.

On the contrary Dave, it is you who seems to favor a Theocractic type of government. Now tell me, how does wanting freedom from religion coincide with wanting to live under the Taliban? To me it would seem exactly the opposite

 

[Kadarin]

Too many people in this country seem to feel that "freedom of religion" means (and only means) that you can pick and choose from whatever flavor of christianity...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Too many people in this country seem to feel that "freedom of religion" means (and only means) that you can pick and choose from whatever flavor of christianity...

Too true.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: aswedc
I was going to vote for Dean, but after this and "Our alliance with Israel is and must remain unshakeable" I'm not so sure hes any better than Bush.

so are you saying its a bad thing to be a man of faith? and that its a bad thing to stick next to your allies?
would you rather an aethiest or agnostic be President and try to shove those views upon the land? and that we turn away from [or even backstab!?] our ally?

i see no problem if Dean or Bush wants to believe in one religion or another, as long as he doesnt try and force me to believe whatever he believes is right, and I agree wholeheartedly that our alliance with Israel needs to be unshakeable. I appalaud Dean for saying these things, lets hope he can act on them in a correct manner.

We have a lot of Athiets/Agnostics in here and they push their Agenda as hard as the whacko Judge in Alabama so they are just as bad as him.

It all boils down that they all can't read. They take "Freedom OF Religion" and read it as either Freedom to PROMOTE Religion and Freedom FROM religion.

OT here, why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?

"why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?"

Sounds like you would enjoy and live fine under the Taliban Regime.

On the contrary Dave, it is you who seems to favor a Theocractic type of government. Now tell me, how does wanting freedom from religion coincide with wanting to live under the Taliban? To me it would seem exactly the opposite

The Taliban were blowing up Century old Monuments. The Athiests/Agnostics are getting rid of everything here, same thing.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: aswedc
I was going to vote for Dean, but after this and "Our alliance with Israel is and must remain unshakeable" I'm not so sure hes any better than Bush.

so are you saying its a bad thing to be a man of faith? and that its a bad thing to stick next to your allies?
would you rather an aethiest or agnostic be President and try to shove those views upon the land? and that we turn away from [or even backstab!?] our ally?

i see no problem if Dean or Bush wants to believe in one religion or another, as long as he doesnt try and force me to believe whatever he believes is right, and I agree wholeheartedly that our alliance with Israel needs to be unshakeable. I appalaud Dean for saying these things, lets hope he can act on them in a correct manner.

We have a lot of Athiets/Agnostics in here and they push their Agenda as hard as the whacko Judge in Alabama so they are just as bad as him.

It all boils down that they all can't read. They take "Freedom OF Religion" and read it as either Freedom to PROMOTE Religion and Freedom FROM religion.

OT here, why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?

"why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?"

Sounds like you would enjoy and live fine under the Taliban Regime.

On the contrary Dave, it is you who seems to favor a Theocractic type of government. Now tell me, how does wanting freedom from religion coincide with wanting to live under the Taliban? To me it would seem exactly the opposite

The Taliban were blowing up Century old Monuments. The Athiests/Agnostics are getting rid of everything here, same thing.

Condeming those who don't believe as they do is more like the Taliban and like you!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: aswedc
I was going to vote for Dean, but after this and "Our alliance with Israel is and must remain unshakeable" I'm not so sure hes any better than Bush.

so are you saying its a bad thing to be a man of faith? and that its a bad thing to stick next to your allies?
would you rather an aethiest or agnostic be President and try to shove those views upon the land? and that we turn away from [or even backstab!?] our ally?

i see no problem if Dean or Bush wants to believe in one religion or another, as long as he doesnt try and force me to believe whatever he believes is right, and I agree wholeheartedly that our alliance with Israel needs to be unshakeable. I appalaud Dean for saying these things, lets hope he can act on them in a correct manner.

We have a lot of Athiets/Agnostics in here and they push their Agenda as hard as the whacko Judge in Alabama so they are just as bad as him.

It all boils down that they all can't read. They take "Freedom OF Religion" and read it as either Freedom to PROMOTE Religion and Freedom FROM religion.

OT here, why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?

"why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?"

Sounds like you would enjoy and live fine under the Taliban Regime.

On the contrary Dave, it is you who seems to favor a Theocractic type of government. Now tell me, how does wanting freedom from religion coincide with wanting to live under the Taliban? To me it would seem exactly the opposite

The Taliban were blowing up Century old Monuments. The Athiests/Agnostics are getting rid of everything here, same thing.

Not quite the same, the atheists/agnostics are not having the Monuments destroyed, just removed.

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn OT here, why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?

"why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?" Sounds like you would enjoy and live fine under the Taliban Regime.

On the contrary Dave, it is you who seems to favor a Theocractic type of government. Now tell me, how does wanting freedom from religion coincide with wanting to live under the Taliban? To me it would seem exactly the opposite

The Taliban were blowing up Century old Monuments. The Athiests/Agnostics are getting rid of everything here, same thing.

Ok, I'll bite : Dave, you're trolling, aren't you?
There's just no other possible explanation for that run of arguments - you are simply the best troll that AT has ever seen. No one with an IQ higher than a tree frog's could possible advance the argument that someone who wonders about living without religion would be happy living under an autocratic theocrasy because said regime destroys statues, and be serious.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: aswedc
I was going to vote for Dean, but after this and "Our alliance with Israel is and must remain unshakeable" I'm not so sure hes any better than Bush.

so are you saying its a bad thing to be a man of faith? and that its a bad thing to stick next to your allies?
would you rather an aethiest or agnostic be President and try to shove those views upon the land? and that we turn away from [or even backstab!?] our ally?

i see no problem if Dean or Bush wants to believe in one religion or another, as long as he doesnt try and force me to believe whatever he believes is right, and I agree wholeheartedly that our alliance with Israel needs to be unshakeable. I appalaud Dean for saying these things, lets hope he can act on them in a correct manner.

We have a lot of Athiets/Agnostics in here and they push their Agenda as hard as the whacko Judge in Alabama so they are just as bad as him.

It all boils down that they all can't read. They take "Freedom OF Religion" and read it as either Freedom to PROMOTE Religion and Freedom FROM religion.

OT here, why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?

"why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?"

Sounds like you would enjoy and live fine under the Taliban Regime.

On the contrary Dave, it is you who seems to favor a Theocractic type of government. Now tell me, how does wanting freedom from religion coincide with wanting to live under the Taliban? To me it would seem exactly the opposite

The Taliban were blowing up Century old Monuments. The Athiests/Agnostics are getting rid of everything here, same thing.

Condeming those who don't believe as they do is more like the Taliban and like you!

That's interesting, who have I condemned???

The Athiests/Agnbostics can do whatever they want, just don't mess with the History and Founding of the Country by forcing anything or re-writing the Constitution which is what they are doing and they are wrong. Just as the Judge who put a Monument in the middle of the Courthouse was wrong.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: aswedc
I was going to vote for Dean, but after this and "Our alliance with Israel is and must remain unshakeable" I'm not so sure hes any better than Bush.

so are you saying its a bad thing to be a man of faith? and that its a bad thing to stick next to your allies?
would you rather an aethiest or agnostic be President and try to shove those views upon the land? and that we turn away from [or even backstab!?] our ally?

i see no problem if Dean or Bush wants to believe in one religion or another, as long as he doesnt try and force me to believe whatever he believes is right, and I agree wholeheartedly that our alliance with Israel needs to be unshakeable. I appalaud Dean for saying these things, lets hope he can act on them in a correct manner.

We have a lot of Athiets/Agnostics in here and they push their Agenda as hard as the whacko Judge in Alabama so they are just as bad as him.

It all boils down that they all can't read. They take "Freedom OF Religion" and read it as either Freedom to PROMOTE Religion and Freedom FROM religion.

OT here, why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?

"why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?"

Sounds like you would enjoy and live fine under the Taliban Regime.

On the contrary Dave, it is you who seems to favor a Theocractic type of government. Now tell me, how does wanting freedom from religion coincide with wanting to live under the Taliban? To me it would seem exactly the opposite

The Taliban were blowing up Century old Monuments. The Athiests/Agnostics are getting rid of everything here, same thing.

Not quite the same, the atheists/agnostics are not having the Monuments destroyed, just removed.

They are going far beyond just getting Monuments that should have not been put in the middle of a Courthouse to begin with and you know. They are vehemently getting any reference to GOD or Religion removed from the U.S. to make it a GODless and Religionless Country.
I have met a couple of them in person and that is exactly what they said and want. That may not be the view of the Athiest/Agnostics here in AT but it is of the ones that are WINNING the Court cases especially since Athiests are now sitting in the Judge positions.

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: aswedc
I was going to vote for Dean, but after this and "Our alliance with Israel is and must remain unshakeable" I'm not so sure hes any better than Bush.

so are you saying its a bad thing to be a man of faith? and that its a bad thing to stick next to your allies?
would you rather an aethiest or agnostic be President and try to shove those views upon the land? and that we turn away from [or even backstab!?] our ally?

i see no problem if Dean or Bush wants to believe in one religion or another, as long as he doesnt try and force me to believe whatever he believes is right, and I agree wholeheartedly that our alliance with Israel needs to be unshakeable. I appalaud Dean for saying these things, lets hope he can act on them in a correct manner.

We have a lot of Athiets/Agnostics in here and they push their Agenda as hard as the whacko Judge in Alabama so they are just as bad as him.

It all boils down that they all can't read. They take "Freedom OF Religion" and read it as either Freedom to PROMOTE Religion and Freedom FROM religion.

i dont seem to recall the wacko Alabama judge pushing any agenda off on anybody.

Putting a multiple ton religious monument in a public courthouse isn't pushing an agenda??

no it isnt. its called a monument. when he starts preaching out of the couthouse about how all us hethans are going to hell and such for all the sins we've committed and that we need to convert to Christianity NOW, then thats pushing an agenda.

but since he hasnt done that...

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: aswedc
I was going to vote for Dean, but after this and "Our alliance with Israel is and must remain unshakeable" I'm not so sure hes any better than Bush.

so are you saying its a bad thing to be a man of faith? and that its a bad thing to stick next to your allies?
would you rather an aethiest or agnostic be President and try to shove those views upon the land? and that we turn away from [or even backstab!?] our ally?

i see no problem if Dean or Bush wants to believe in one religion or another, as long as he doesnt try and force me to believe whatever he believes is right, and I agree wholeheartedly that our alliance with Israel needs to be unshakeable. I appalaud Dean for saying these things, lets hope he can act on them in a correct manner.

We have a lot of Athiets/Agnostics in here and they push their Agenda as hard as the whacko Judge in Alabama so they are just as bad as him.

It all boils down that they all can't read. They take "Freedom OF Religion" and read it as either Freedom to PROMOTE Religion and Freedom FROM religion.

OT here, why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?

"why shouldn't we have freedom from religion Dave?"

Sounds like you would enjoy and live fine under the Taliban Regime.

On the contrary Dave, it is you who seems to favor a Theocractic type of government. Now tell me, how does wanting freedom from religion coincide with wanting to live under the Taliban? To me it would seem exactly the opposite

The Taliban were blowing up Century old Monuments. The Athiests/Agnostics are getting rid of everything here, same thing.

Not quite the same, the atheists/agnostics are not having the Monuments destroyed, just removed.

They are going far beyond just getting Monuments that should have not been put in the middle of a Courthouse to begin with and you know. They are vehemently getting any reference to GOD or Religion removed from the U.S. to make it a GODless and Religionless Country.
I have met a couple of them in person and that is exactly what they said and want. That may not be the view of the Athiest/Agnostics here in AT but it is of the ones that are WINNING the Court cases especially since Athiests are now sitting in the Judge positions.

This must be a Southern thing!

 

[Zebo]

I dislike when politicians take sides on what I call cultural issues. It's only to divide us. The whole objective superiority of cultures, specifically their culture, can only be defined as a conservative divisatory issue when it leaves people out.

What we need to focus on is it's demand that generates supply and improves the economy and everyones lot in life. We create this demand by insuring everyone has a living wage and stop the corporate fudalism to the third world.

 

[Jhhnn]

Bringing the Taliban destruction of Buddhist monuments into the discussion is a total red herring. Nobody is suggesting the destruction of the Kivas at Mesa Verde, or the destruction of american catherals, or that religious organizations can't prominently display their symbols on their own property. Quite the contrary.

Efforts from the fringe christian right have found a receptive audience in the current admin. They don't believe in the separation of church and state at all, demanding creationist claptrap be taught in public schools and such literature be sold at national monuments like the Grand Canyon... they even want tour guides to give equal time to their flood fantasy and geological chronology- the earth is only ~8000 years old, according to them...

As for Howard Dean, I think his northeastern cultural reticence to bring religion into the political process would be counterproductive in the South. If he's a man of faith, then he should say so, particularly in venues where the audience would appreciate such reassurances....

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Bringing the Taliban destruction of Buddhist monuments into the discussion is a total red herring. Nobody is suggesting the destruction of the Kivas at Mesa Verde, or the destruction of american catherals, or that religious organizations can't prominently display their symbols on their own property. Quite the contrary.

Efforts from the fringe christian right have found a receptive audience in the current admin. They don't believe in the separation of church and state at all, demanding creationist claptrap be taught in public schools and such literature be sold at national monuments like the Grand Canyon... they even want tour guides to give equal time to their flood fantasy and geological chronology- the earth is only ~8000 years old, according to them...

As for Howard Dean, I think his northeastern cultural reticence to bring religion into the political process would be counterproductive in the South. If he's a man of faith, then he should say so, particularly in venues where the audience would appreciate such reassurances....

Hardly a Red Herring when Churches are being forced to take down their Crosses on their own property.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Bringing the Taliban destruction of Buddhist monuments into the discussion is a total red herring. Nobody is suggesting the destruction of the Kivas at Mesa Verde, or the destruction of american catherals, or that religious organizations can't prominently display their symbols on their own property. Quite the contrary.

Efforts from the fringe christian right have found a receptive audience in the current admin. They don't believe in the separation of church and state at all, demanding creationist claptrap be taught in public schools and such literature be sold at national monuments like the Grand Canyon... they even want tour guides to give equal time to their flood fantasy and geological chronology- the earth is only ~8000 years old, according to them...

As for Howard Dean, I think his northeastern cultural reticence to bring religion into the political process would be counterproductive in the South. If he's a man of faith, then he should say so, particularly in venues where the audience would appreciate such reassurances....

Hardly a Red Herring when Churches are being forced to take down their Crosses on their own property.

Where the hell is that happening? Is this another one of your misleading lies Dave?

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeh, Dave, Links are pretty much required to substantiate that kind of accusation....

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Yeh, Dave, Links are pretty much required to substantiate that kind of accusation....

Those links are already well documented in the God thread. I know it's too hard to read when too busy spewing.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Yeh, Dave, Links are pretty much required to substantiate that kind of accusation....

Those links are already well documented in the God thread. I know it's too hard to read when too busy spewing.

Spewing? LOL.. Pot meet Kettle

That thread is so filled with you undocumented BS that it's not worth sifting through to find one or two references. However when I did suffer through it on occasion I never came across any links that supported your claim that Religious Institutions are being prevented from displaying this Symbols ontheir own property. If you could find the time to post a link that documents Chirches being prevented from Displaying their Religious symbols on their property (such as the Crucifix) maybe you might find some of us Athiests defending those institutions rights to display them. Frankly I would be extremely appalled if they were prevented from displaying them.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Yeh, Dave, Links are pretty much required to substantiate that kind of accusation....

Those links are already well documented in the God thread. I know it's too hard to read when too busy spewing.

Spewing? LOL.. Pot meet Kettle

That thread is so filled with you undocumented BS that it's not worth sifting through to find one or two references. However when I did suffer through it on occasion I never came across any links that supported your claim that Religious Institutions are being prevented from displaying this Symbols ontheir own property. If you could find the time to post a link that documents Chirches being prevented from Displaying their Religious symbols on their property (such as the Crucifix) maybe you might find some of us Athiests defending those institutions rights to display them. Frankly I would be extremely appalled if they were prevented from displaying them.

Hawaii Citizens for the Separation of State and Church Accomplishments

HCSSC ACCOMPLISHMENTS

Forced McKinley High School to abolish use of student honor code including words "Love for God." (January 2003)
Forced Governor-elect Linda Lingle to return $3,000 in campaign contributions from Christian supremacists. (November 2002)
Forced Honolulu Police Department to abolish use of "so help me God" to swear in police officers. (September 2002)
Forced Honolulu Police Department to remove Bible verse and religious poems from offical website. (September 2002)
Forced United States Navy to remove "I believe in God" from youth recreation cards at Pearl Harbor. (July 2002)
Forced Department of Health to remove "God Bless America" prayer sign from public lobby at Kinau Hale building. (June 2002)
Forced Superintendent to curtail Boy Scout activity in Hawaii Public Schools. The Scout Oath, which includes "duty to God," and classroom recruiting are officially banned. (May 2002)
Caused removal of three "God Bless America" signs from public areas at the Hawaii State Department of Taxation. (June 2002)
Killed attempt by a Fundamentalist Legislator and the Hawaii Christain Coalition to mandate "moment of silence" prayer scheme in Hawaii public schools. (2002)
Forced Kaimuki High School to end ban on "Satanism" in dress code for students. (February 2002)
Forced the City and County of Honolulu to regulate crosses and other religious symbols as "signs" under the Revised Ordinances of Honolulu. (2001)
Organized successful campaign to defeat attempt by Christian fundamentalists to teach "creation theory" along with evolution in Hawaii's public schools. HCSSC Testimony (2001)
Compelled Hope Chapel Kaneohe to remove 30-foot-tall lighted cross erected without a permit in violation of sign ordinances. (2001)
Forced City and County of Honolulu to order removal of 25-foot-tall cross erected by St. Jude's Catholic Church without a permit in violation of sign ordinances. (2001)
Forced the City and County of Honolulu to remove dozens of Christian church descriptions from its official government website. (2001)
Obliged the State of Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources to remove 8 wooden crosses erected and maintained for more than one year by private citizens on public property at the entrance to Sacred Falls State Park. (1999) to memorialize victims killed by a rock slide. Two of the crosses erected violated the wishes of two atheist victims who had specified in their wills that no memorials be erected.
Forced several state legislators to stop using public employees and government assets to organize prayer breakfasts and other religious activities at taxpayer expense. (1998 and 2001)
Forced United States Army to demolish 37-foot-tall, 35-ton, steel cross near KoleKole Pass at Scofield Barracks (US Army Base). The giant cross was built by the Army in 1962 and was removed without ceremony in 1997 following HCSSC's successful legal challenge. (1997)
September 11, 1997 - Honolulu Star-Bulletin
Group files suit to remove cross at Kolekole Pass

October 21, 1997- Honolulu Star-Bulletin
Kolekole Pass cross ordered dismantled


Forced Mayor of Honolulu to end years of discrimination by granting Christian church special privileges in annual holiday festival. Erected pro state-church separation display on lawn of city hall which featured a 12-foot-tall red, white and blue cross with "crucified" bill of rights. (1998)
Encouraged the Governor of Hawaii and the mayors of the four counties to disentangle from the annual "Governor's and Mayors' Prayer Breakfast" after 20 years. The name was changed to "Hawaii Prayer Breakfast" and all government participation and misuse of public funds ceased. (1998)
Forced State of Hawaii Office of Elections to remove "So help me God" from state elections oath administered to thousands. (1998)
Compelled more than a dozen state legislators to remove religious symbols from doors to public offices at the state capitol. All but three legislators removed the symbols after a biased and legally-errant opinion from the attroney general's office. (1999)
Organized public protest demonstration at Promise Keepers event in Honolulu. (1996)
Implemented "Bible Quote of the Day" program. Select Bible quotes were faxed daily to every state legislator (see Bible quotes at bottom of this page). (1999 and 2000 legislative sessions)
Sponsored and taught "Bible Criticism" course at University of Hawaii, Academy for Lifelong Learning; course was one of the most popular in the program's history. (1998 and 1999)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Erected pro state-church separation display on lawn of city hall which featured a 12-foot-tall red, white and blue cross with "crucified" bill of rights. (1998) "

I get a kick out of this one. The Athiests doing exactly what they are working so hard to get rid of, they put up a "Religious Like" display of their own. Talk about hypocracy.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Yeh, Dave, Links are pretty much required to substantiate that kind of accusation....

Those links are already well documented in the God thread. I know it's too hard to read when too busy spewing.

Spewing? LOL.. Pot meet Kettle

That thread is so filled with you undocumented BS that it's not worth sifting through to find one or two references. However when I did suffer through it on occasion I never came across any links that supported your claim that Religious Institutions are being prevented from displaying this Symbols ontheir own property. If you could find the time to post a link that documents Chirches being prevented from Displaying their Religious symbols on their property (such as the Crucifix) maybe you might find some of us Athiests defending those institutions rights to display them. Frankly I would be extremely appalled if they were prevented from displaying them.

Hawaii Citizens for the Separation of State and Church Accomplishments

HCSSC ACCOMPLISHMENTS

Forced McKinley High School to abolish use of student honor code including words "Love for God." (January 2003)
Forced Governor-elect Linda Lingle to return $3,000 in campaign contributions from Christian supremacists. (November 2002)
Forced Honolulu Police Department to abolish use of "so help me God" to swear in police officers. (September 2002)
Forced Honolulu Police Department to remove Bible verse and religious poems from offical website. (September 2002)
Forced United States Navy to remove "I believe in God" from youth recreation cards at Pearl Harbor. (July 2002)
Forced Department of Health to remove "God Bless America" prayer sign from public lobby at Kinau Hale building. (June 2002)
Forced Superintendent to curtail Boy Scout activity in Hawaii Public Schools. The Scout Oath, which includes "duty to God," and classroom recruiting are officially banned. (May 2002)
Caused removal of three "God Bless America" signs from public areas at the Hawaii State Department of Taxation. (June 2002)
Killed attempt by a Fundamentalist Legislator and the Hawaii Christain Coalition to mandate "moment of silence" prayer scheme in Hawaii public schools. (2002)
Forced Kaimuki High School to end ban on "Satanism" in dress code for students. (February 2002)
Forced the City and County of Honolulu to regulate crosses and other religious symbols as "signs" under the Revised Ordinances of Honolulu. (2001)
Organized successful campaign to defeat attempt by Christian fundamentalists to teach "creation theory" along with evolution in Hawaii's public schools. HCSSC Testimony (2001)
Compelled Hope Chapel Kaneohe to remove 30-foot-tall lighted cross erected without a permit in violation of sign ordinances. (2001)
Forced City and County of Honolulu to order removal of 25-foot-tall cross erected by St. Jude's Catholic Church without a permit in violation of sign ordinances. (2001)
Forced the City and County of Honolulu to remove dozens of Christian church descriptions from its official government website. (2001)
Obliged the State of Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources to remove 8 wooden crosses erected and maintained for more than one year by private citizens on public property at the entrance to Sacred Falls State Park. (1999) to memorialize victims killed by a rock slide. Two of the crosses erected violated the wishes of two atheist victims who had specified in their wills that no memorials be erected.
Forced several state legislators to stop using public employees and government assets to organize prayer breakfasts and other religious activities at taxpayer expense. (1998 and 2001)
Forced United States Army to demolish 37-foot-tall, 35-ton, steel cross near KoleKole Pass at Scofield Barracks (US Army Base). The giant cross was built by the Army in 1962 and was removed without ceremony in 1997 following HCSSC's successful legal challenge. (1997)
September 11, 1997 - Honolulu Star-Bulletin
Group files suit to remove cross at Kolekole Pass

October 21, 1997- Honolulu Star-Bulletin
Kolekole Pass cross ordered dismantled


Forced Mayor of Honolulu to end years of discrimination by granting Christian church special privileges in annual holiday festival. Erected pro state-church separation display on lawn of city hall which featured a 12-foot-tall red, white and blue cross with "crucified" bill of rights. (1998)
Encouraged the Governor of Hawaii and the mayors of the four counties to disentangle from the annual "Governor's and Mayors' Prayer Breakfast" after 20 years. The name was changed to "Hawaii Prayer Breakfast" and all government participation and misuse of public funds ceased. (1998)
Forced State of Hawaii Office of Elections to remove "So help me God" from state elections oath administered to thousands. (1998)
Compelled more than a dozen state legislators to remove religious symbols from doors to public offices at the state capitol. All but three legislators removed the symbols after a biased and legally-errant opinion from the attroney general's office. (1999)
Organized public protest demonstration at Promise Keepers event in Honolulu. (1996)
Implemented "Bible Quote of the Day" program. Select Bible quotes were faxed daily to every state legislator (see Bible quotes at bottom of this page). (1999 and 2000 legislative sessions)
Sponsored and taught "Bible Criticism" course at University of Hawaii, Academy for Lifelong Learning; course was one of the most popular in the program's history. (1998 and 1999)
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"Erected pro state-church separation display on lawn of city hall which featured a 12-foot-tall red, white and blue cross with "crucified" bill of rights. (1998) "

I get a kick out of this one. The Athiests doing exactly what they are working so hard to get rid of, they put up a "Religious Like" display of their own. Talk about hypocracy.

Ah Hawaii Tell me, where does the Christian Religion have such a historic significance in the History of that State, aside from all the negative and catastrophic influence that it had on the native population?

As for Crosses being removed, it seems to me that they didn't follow building codes. Why should they be exempt where others aren't?

 

[Jhhnn]

It really doesn't matter what kind of sign violates the building code, Dave, any that are in violation have to go. The owners are free to erect a new one that's in conformance, no problem.

If that's all you've got for chuches having to remove religious symbols from their own property, I think it can be considered as a red herring, too. It didn't have to come down because it was religious. That's a blatant misattribution of motive, my friend.

Any other examples?