12-14-08:Bush makes surprise Iraq visit to close out tenure

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Wrong, the only history you have on P&N is one so rife with idiocy that you are the laughing stock of P&N, the go-to joke source; you do realize that other than a couple of intellectual misfits here everybody else who has any exposure to what you post thinks you're either insane or a troll or both?

I don't remember him being a troll before his legal troubles. Its classic symptoms of a bully. Person isn't loved, has some hard times. Now he blames the system and tries picking fights everywhere. When he's proven wrong over and over, he simply throws some one liners and then goes home and cries to himself.

I didn't pay much attention then, but others have said he got worse after that. I have noted that he's getting really bad now. In fact, since winning the election, he's trolling at an unprecedented rate. Others have noticed this, some with an M in their title. He's been banned many times before and I will be surprised if he's not banned again soon. This time there's a great chance it will be for good because he has received so many warnings on his antisocial behavior.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Wrong, the only history you have on P&N is one so rife with idiocy that you are the laughing stock of P&N, the go-to joke source; you do realize that other than a couple of intellectual misfits here everybody else who has any exposure to what you post thinks you're either insane or a troll or both?

I don't remember him being a troll before his legal troubles. Its classic symptoms of a bully. Person isn't loved, has some hard times. Now he blames the system and tries picking fights everywhere. When he's proven wrong over and over, he simply throws some one liners and then goes home and cries to himself.

I didn't pay much attention then, but others have said he got worse after that. I have noted that he's getting really bad now. In fact, since winning the election, he's trolling at an unprecedented rate. Others have noticed this, some with an M in their title. He's been banned many times before and I will be surprised if he's not banned again soon.

This time there's a great chance it will be for good because he has received so many warnings on his antisocial behavior.

Is this a bridge club?

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Wrong, the only history you have on P&N is one so rife with idiocy that you are the laughing stock of P&N, the go-to joke source; you do realize that other than a couple of intellectual misfits here everybody else who has any exposure to what you post thinks you're either insane or a troll or both?

I don't remember him being a troll before his legal troubles. Its classic symptoms of a bully. Person isn't loved, has some hard times. Now he blames the system and tries picking fights everywhere. When he's proven wrong over and over, he simply throws some one liners and then goes home and cries to himself.

I didn't pay much attention then, but others have said he got worse after that. I have noted that he's getting really bad now. In fact, since winning the election, he's trolling at an unprecedented rate. Others have noticed this, some with an M in their title. He's been banned many times before and I will be surprised if he's not banned again soon.

This time there's a great chance it will be for good because he has received so many warnings on his antisocial behavior.

Is this a bridge club?

There's the one liner that I warned about Now he's just created a new thread because he has nothing valid to actually post here or defend himself with.

Avoidance is that, the 9th step?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Modelworks
pointless trip.
I'm sure the troops would have preferred a 747 filled with ice cream.

They serve ice cream daily in the chow halls of all of the larger bases. Oh thats right, your commenting based on complete bullshit. Most of the troops actually get very excited when the President comes and visits.

This comes from, I dunno, actual experience being a soldier and seeing a President visit.

Who the hell do you think you are ?
I served 8 years active and 4 reserve . I've seen presidential visits and when the president is liked it is a welcome visit, otherwise it is actually a nuisance as procedures get changed and it interferes with normal operations.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Who the hell do you think you are ?
I served 8 years active and 4 reserve . I've seen presidential visits and when the president is liked it is a welcome visit, otherwise it is actually a nuisance as procedures get changed and it interferes with normal operations.

I'm Bob.

I never said that they loved the President, or that they specifically love Bush. I just said that they get excited. It is a big deal, especially when you are stationed in Iraq.

Hell, people got excited when we passed a huge security convoy on base and then later read later that Condoleezza Rice had landed in Baghdad.

 

[SigArms08]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Modelworks
pointless trip.
I'm sure the troops would have preferred a 747 filled with ice cream.

They serve ice cream daily in the chow halls of all of the larger bases. Oh thats right, your commenting based on complete bullshit.

"Most" of the troops actually get very excited when the President comes and visits.

This comes from, I dunno, actual experience being a soldier and seeing a President visit.

Don't speak for "most" soldiers.

I doubt it's "most" thrilled to see this "Traitor in Chief".

Wrong, most are.

Proof

Dave, TallBill is correct that most troops are glad to see their President. Even though Clinton wasn't necessarily popular with the military at all times, we we're glad when he paid us a visit (once). Its an honor.
That's a difficult thing to provide proof of, other than hearing it from current or ex-military people.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: SigArms08

Dave, TallBill is correct that most troops are glad to see their President. Even though Clinton wasn't necessarily popular with the military at all times, we we're glad when he paid us a visit (once). Its an honor.
That's a difficult thing to provide proof of, other than hearing it from current or ex-military people.

Like the quote in Band of Brothers, "You salute the rank, not the man".

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: SigArms08
Clinton wasn't necessarily popular with the military at all times, we we're glad when he paid us a visit (once). Its an honor.
That's a difficult thing to provide proof of, other than hearing it from current or ex-military people.

I thought the visits by Bush Sr. were the best.
Clinton wasn't liked all that well before the scandal, afterward he actually gained a few points .

Otherwise it just became a photo op for a chance to get your pic with the president. Not really about because he is the leader , but more because he is famous.

 

[SigArms08]

Sure, there's some of that (being famous), but in the military, rank carries a great deal of respect....like what TallBill is saying a few posts up.

One things for sure, we're fortunate to have a military who respects the President regardless of the politics/party. Otherwise, we might be in a situation where coup's are the order of the day!

 

[nageov3t]

I bet that guy who threw the shoe is having a pretty bad day right about now.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Hey dave you ever wonder how many shoes would be thrown at you if that was you in his place? I dont read alot of your posts, but sure see alot of dislike for you.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: SigArms08

One things for sure, we're fortunate to have a military who respects the President regardless of the politics/party. Otherwise, we might be in a situation where coup's are the order of the day!

I think having presidents that are limited in terms helps with that. If we had a system where they served 20 years, there would probably be quite a few attempts at overthrowing the government.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Modelworks
pointless trip.
I'm sure the troops would have preferred a 747 filled with ice cream.

They serve ice cream daily in the chow halls of all of the larger bases. Oh thats right, your commenting based on complete bullshit.

"Most" of the troops actually get very excited when the President comes and visits.

This comes from, I dunno, actual experience being a soldier and seeing a President visit.

Don't speak for "most" soldiers.

I doubt it's "most" thrilled to see this "Traitor in Chief".

Wrong, most are.

Proof

This comes from, I dunno, actual experience being a soldier and seeing a President visit.

I've seen it first hand, both in Iraq and at Fort Campbell. There is a huge buzz when the President comes and visits. Soldiers get excited, and it is a big deal.

Your not in the military so your fucking clueless (well, that's an entirely different problem). But, in case you forget, the President is the head of the Armed Forces. Soldiers get excited when any of the top guys show up; Sergeant Major of the Army, etc.

Let's clarify. Many, maybe even most, get excited in general. Some never do, because they're not into pomp and circumstance. Others, like me, would only be 'excited' by the visit of a passable or better President. A traitor-abomination-humiliation like Bush and I'd probably break my own finger so I could spend the day in medical rather than be tempted to put that sorry son of whore down if he came near me on the base/ship.

There's disagreeing with an administration, but sucking it up and respecting the office (like say, Bush Sr.) and then there's a duty to defend the country from domestic enemies (W). In my lifetime I would say that possibly Nixon, and definitely W qualify for this type of treatment (and W FAR more than Nixon). As much as I despised Reagan I don't believe he acted in a manner to qualify him as a domestic enemy (just monumentally stupid and abusive). I would not choose to meet him, and would refuse to be friendly/respectful, but I wouldn't feel the need to arrest/assault him.

*shrug* Just saying, not all military feel the same way about things. Some of us actually have morals and a conscience.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: SigArms08

Dave, TallBill is correct that most troops are glad to see their President. Even though Clinton wasn't necessarily popular with the military at all times, we we're glad when he paid us a visit (once). Its an honor.
That's a difficult thing to provide proof of, other than hearing it from current or ex-military people.

Like the quote in Band of Brothers, "You salute the rank, not the man".

Most ignorant, potentially dangerous idea ever to pollute military thought.

 

[TallBill]

I'd probably break my own finger so I could spend the day in medical rather than be tempted to put that sorry son of whore down if he came near me on the base/ship.

:roll: No you wouldn't have.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: SigArms08

Dave, TallBill is correct that most troops are glad to see their President. Even though Clinton wasn't necessarily popular with the military at all times, we we're glad when he paid us a visit (once). Its an honor.
That's a difficult thing to provide proof of, other than hearing it from current or ex-military people.

Like the quote in Band of Brothers, "You salute the rank, not the man".

Most ignorant, potentially dangerous idea ever to pollute military thought.

Wow, you're on a roll.. You obviously don't understand the double meaning of the quote.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: TallBill

I'd probably break my own finger so I could spend the day in medical rather than be tempted to put that sorry son of whore down if he came near me on the base/ship.

:roll: No you wouldn't have.

You're right, I dislike pain.

But I would do whatever I could to get the hell out of there. If nothing else I'd volunteer for a watch somewhere that wouldn't be involved.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: SigArms08

Dave, TallBill is correct that most troops are glad to see their President. Even though Clinton wasn't necessarily popular with the military at all times, we we're glad when he paid us a visit (once). Its an honor.
That's a difficult thing to provide proof of, other than hearing it from current or ex-military people.

Like the quote in Band of Brothers, "You salute the rank, not the man".

Most ignorant, potentially dangerous idea ever to pollute military thought.

Wow, you're on a roll.. You obviously don't understand the double meaning of the quote.

Feel free to enlighten me. I do often misinterpret things so it's completely possible.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Feel free to enlighten me. I do often misinterpret things so it's completely possible.

The point is that even if you hate a man's guts, you still have to respect his rank. This respect goes both up and down. The men underneath me called me sergeant, just as the men above me called me sergeant because it was a title that I earned.

UCMJ is very clear about following orders that must be "lawful". If someone above you is telling you to do illegal or immoral things then there are ways to refuse.

It isn't just a system of I tell you to do this and you do it because I outrank you. But you can't run such a huge operation without a rank structure, and someone has to be on top.

Now you may not respect the man, but you will respect the position he holds. Because without that position in place, there is chaos.

Now, if you don't buy into all of this, then don't join the Armed Forces. But you agree to uphold the UCMJ when you raise your hand.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: TallBill

The point is that even if you hate a man's guts, you still have to respect his rank.

This respect goes both up and down.

The men underneath me called me sergeant, just as the men above me called me sergeant because it was a title that I earned.

Respect != Like or "excited" to see you :roll:

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill

The point is that even if you hate a man's guts, you still have to respect his rank.

This respect goes both up and down.

The men underneath me called me sergeant, just as the men above me called me sergeant because it was a title that I earned.

Respect != Like or "excited" to see you :roll:

Wow, you've finally posted something that's true. However, in this case, most troops are still excited to see their President, whoever it may be.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill

The point is that even if you hate a man's guts, you still have to respect his rank.

This respect goes both up and down.

The men underneath me called me sergeant, just as the men above me called me sergeant because it was a title that I earned.

Respect != Like or "excited" to see you :roll:

Wow, you've finally posted something that's true.

However, in this case, most troops are still excited to see their President, whoever it may be.

Man, so arrogant and presumptive of you.



Sad

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill

The point is that even if you hate a man's guts, you still have to respect his rank.

This respect goes both up and down.

The men underneath me called me sergeant, just as the men above me called me sergeant because it was a title that I earned.

Respect != Like or "excited" to see you :roll:

Wow, you've finally posted something that's true. However, in this case, most troops are still excited to see their President, whoever it may be.

That's true. I guarantee you that most of the troops he'd see in Iraq would be excited, and positive, to see him in front of them. None of us need bother finding easily supporting evidence on google about support for him among enlisted people, it's just common sense.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TallBill

The point is that even if you hate a man's guts, you still have to respect his rank.

This respect goes both up and down.

The men underneath me called me sergeant, just as the men above me called me sergeant because it was a title that I earned.

Respect != Like or "excited" to see you :roll:

Wow, you've finally posted something that's true. However, in this case, most troops are still excited to see their President, whoever it may be.

That's true. I guarantee you that most of the troops he'd see in Iraq would be excited, and positive, to see him in front of them. None of us need bother finding easily supporting evidence on google about support for him among enlisted people, it's just common sense.

You actually brought common sense into this?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Feel free to enlighten me. I do often misinterpret things so it's completely possible.

The point is that even if you hate a man's guts, you still have to respect his rank. This respect goes both up and down. The men underneath me called me sergeant, just as the men above me called me sergeant because it was a title that I earned.

UCMJ is very clear about following orders that must be "lawful". If someone above you is telling you to do illegal or immoral things then there are ways to refuse.

It isn't just a system of I tell you to do this and you do it because I outrank you. But you can't run such a huge operation without a rank structure, and someone has to be on top.

Now you may not respect the man, but you will respect the position he holds. Because without that position in place, there is chaos.

Now, if you don't buy into all of this, then don't join the Armed Forces. But you agree to uphold the UCMJ when you raise your hand.

Then nope, I understood it exactly, and think it's a dangerous load of horsecrap. Under that philosophy you'd have to salute another Hitler, even if you were able to refuse to follow specific orders he issued. That is, of course, ridiculous. Instead, you respect any many who hasn't lost his respectability. Should a man act in a manner that is not worthy of respect, then they should not receive it. Period. If that means the military has to refuse to follow a CiC, or even remove him at the request of the people, then that's what needs to be done. It's the only way to prevent the atrocities we've seen throughout the history of the world.

I knew this full well when I joined, and had no problems with it because the oath we take gives us our out: "I, your name, do affirm that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;..." If anyone, including the President, is in opposition to true faith and allegiance to the Constitution and its principles they are an enemy of the state and should be treated as such. Ergo, I must choose to oppose Bush.

Let's remember that we're not talking about 'hating someone's guts'. I can respect the hell out of people I hate. There's just a difference between hating someone and being the sworn enemy of someone.