11 years in jail for raping a fictional character

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erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
Oh dear...does this mean that I've *raped* Britney Spears, Ali Landry, Natalie Portman, Carmen Elektra, Pamela Anderson, Christina Aguilera, Brooke Burke, Jessica Alba, Eliza Dushku, and the local weather girl??? I have pics of all of them on my PC, and I have *definately* had the intent to fornicate with one or more of these babes (often at the same time!)

LOCK ME UP FOR LIFE!!!

don't be retarded. none of those people are minors. this isn't about catching a rapist, it's about catching a child molester. and as gopunk said, if you sneak into their houses with rope and ether in a ski mask, then yes, perhaps you should be locked up.

the word rape in a case like this isn't what most ppl think of as rape, like, forcing your upon a woman or whatever. because it's a minor who can't make a normal decision (and in most cases i'd think would have no idea what's happening) they call it rape, even if the person has convinced the child it's something they "want". i wish they'd use another word for it, personally, so that ppl with no brain could understand the situation better.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
Oh dear...does this mean that I've *raped* Britney Spears, Ali Landry, Natalie Portman, Carmen Elektra, Pamela Anderson, Christina Aguilera, Brooke Burke, Jessica Alba, Eliza Dushku, and the local weather girl??? I have pics of all of them on my PC, and I have *definately* had the intent to fornicate with one or more of these babes (often at the same time!)

LOCK ME UP FOR LIFE!!!

I'd also like to point out that fantasizing about having a sexual encounter with someone...you know, like when your face is all contorted while you're killing a kitten...isn't even close to having intent.

 

wolf papa

Senior member
Dec 12, 1999
738
0
0
I'd like to know more about the woman who met the guy in the bar - the article said she made up the child, in an attempt to assist police in breaking up a child porn ring. If she was a snitch, someone charged with another crime, trying to get her charges dropped by delivering some other "criminal" to the police, then I see a lot of potential for entrapment.
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
0
Originally posted by: wolf papa
I'd like to know more about the woman who met the guy in the bar - the article said she made up the child, in an attempt to assist police in breaking up a child porn ring. If she was a snitch, someone charged with another crime, trying to get her charges dropped by delivering some other "criminal" to the police, then I see a lot of potential for entrapment.

Ther never said anything about that.

I'm interested in knowing how many people here aren't glad that this guy, who most likely molested kids in the past, and sure as hell has the intent to molest more, will be going away for 11 years?
 

dolph

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
3,981
0
0
Originally posted by: gopunk
look folks, if some guy buys a bunch of flashbangs, body armor, semiautos, ammo, and proceeds to approach a bank, is it okay to arrest him for having the intent to rob a bank? i think so.

this is NOT simply a THOUGHT. he WENT to the place where he believed the child lived with several items that he had purchased for the occasion.

you're almost right in your analogy, except instead of going to a bank he walked into a broom closet, fully armed.

this is almost a textbook definition of entrapmnet, and any private attorney (or competent public defender) would love to have a case this easy.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
Oh dear...does this mean that I've *raped* Britney Spears, Ali Landry, Natalie Portman, Carmen Elektra, Pamela Anderson, Christina Aguilera, Brooke Burke, Jessica Alba, Eliza Dushku, and the local weather girl??? I have pics of all of them on my PC, and I have *definately* had the intent to fornicate with one or more of these babes (often at the same time!)

LOCK ME UP FOR LIFE!!!

i dunno, did you go to their houses with a bunch of duct tape and ether?

BTW, he did not get prosecuted for RAPE. he got prosecuted for attempted rape. man the amount of misinformation in this thread is shocking.


Did Peterman have duct tape and ether?

This is why a trial by jury can be a scary thing. There should be iq tests for jurists, not the test of who is too stupid to get out of jury duty or who does not have a life test that they have in place now.
 

dolph

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
3,981
0
0
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Originally posted by: wolf papa
I'd like to know more about the woman who met the guy in the bar - the article said she made up the child, in an attempt to assist police in breaking up a child porn ring. If she was a snitch, someone charged with another crime, trying to get her charges dropped by delivering some other "criminal" to the police, then I see a lot of potential for entrapment.

Ther never said anything about that.

I'm interested in knowing how many people here aren't glad that this guy, who most likely molested kids in the past, and sure as hell has the intent to molest more, will be going away for 11 years?

now we're assuming that he committed crimes we have zero evidence of? gee, this slope sure isn't slippery...
 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,730
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: gopunk
he had the intent

I'm sure that at some point you've dreamed about doing something illegal. Somebody slap the cuffs on gopunk, the lowlife worm.

yea but i didn't go so far as to prepare to do it, show up at the place, etc

That's like saying that I'm guilty of speeding because I got into my car, put my seat belt on, started the engine, and pulled out onto the street.... I did everything to prepare to do it, but I never actually did it....
rolleye.gif
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
0
Originally posted by: dolph
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Originally posted by: wolf papa
I'd like to know more about the woman who met the guy in the bar - the article said she made up the child, in an attempt to assist police in breaking up a child porn ring. If she was a snitch, someone charged with another crime, trying to get her charges dropped by delivering some other "criminal" to the police, then I see a lot of potential for entrapment.

Ther never said anything about that.

I'm interested in knowing how many people here aren't glad that this guy, who most likely molested kids in the past, and sure as hell has the intent to molest more, will be going away for 11 years?

now we're assuming that he committed crimes we have zero evidence of? gee, this slope sure isn't slippery...

Well, if you ignore the fact that he was involved in a child pornography ring, and the fact that he had tapes of child pornography with him at the time, I guess you're right.

 

tallest1

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2001
3,474
0
0
I completely understand the counterargument here but there are probably some thought police who have like a criminals-to-catch quota.

Watch the prostitution busts on C.O.P.S. In one day, they'd trap more men than real prostitutes probably would in an entire week. Then comes the word-play bait they use to make the police completely 'innocent' and the criminal '110%' guilty. I remember getting a PM in one chat room from a woman playing as an underage girl. She was trying to convince me to meet her at the state fair and blah-blah-blah. I ended that dialogue pretty quickly - found out shortly after that she was some cop hunting/fishing/baiting the rooms for pervs. As effective as it probably is, their methods leave a bad taste in my mouth.:disgust:

Yes, a criminal was caught but how long will it be till they offer warez online and arrest anyone who attempts to download it? How long till they have undercover cops in Honda Civics arresting every car they race for speeding/reckless-driving?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,762
6,768
126
This is definitely an interesting issue. The points that matter to me when I look at it are these: A man who would, if he could, have sex with children is in jail. Good. But wait, what does 'would if he could' really mean. Does it mean that at some time, if the police hadn't entrapped this guy, he would have committed rape against a child, or was it that he had sexual fantasies about children that he would never have acted on in a real world situation because the sting was intentionally structured in such a fashion as to overcome the kinds on natural inhibitions that pertain in practically every real world situation. We cannot, from the article, answer this question because the details of how he was entrapped are not made available.

The only thing that prevents almost anybody from being able to be manipulated, given a sufficiently skilled manipulator, in such a way as to commit a crime is powerful internal ethical code rooted in a solid sense of self love. Such people are very rare.

It would seem to me then that this is an example of one of those conflicting rights issues where you have to sort of feel your way to decide which right has the greater precident. It seems too, that the issue is easier to resolve if the entrappment is regulated in such a way as not to cross the boundry into active manipulation, but allowing the victim to lead the way. Such matters are understood as for example in not leading a witness. In short, what needs to be on trial, I think, would be tape and video evidence of the actual takedown.

An important additional issue here, I think, is the fact that child sex crimes are not something that people ordinarily want to get caught at. Knowledge that such people are being actively hunted ought, one would thing, to raise the bar of inhibition. That can't be too bad.

The other thing that I find interesting about this is that I would feel completely different, I think, if this were about, say, smoking pot or taking acid, etc. I think that the intent to chemically alter consciousness is intergal to the human experience and has been for thousands and thousands of years. It may even be the origin of religion. To entrap somebody for doing something that is artificially illegal is very troublesome. Child rape strikes me as a completely different animal. Is that my prejudice? It's an interesting question. I don't think it is. How does one prove that.

Clearly the law is the law is the law is the solution for the simple minded, or this is what my relivious book says, but to distinguish your own since of objective reality from the nutcase next door who is equally certain and certifiably nuts isn't easy. I will yield to he who has the greater love. Pray that I can tell.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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This is an interesting case, and IMO the prosecutor may have reached a bit by charging attempted rape. In essence, the question is whether he committed a substantial step toward child rape by possessing the sex toys and pornography at what he presumably thought was his victim's house. To me, this is highly fact-specific and would depend on knowing the facts and circumstances in greater detail than what is provided in the story.

I don't know that this kind of charging is as "extraordinary" as the story would have you believe, and these kinds of inchoate crimes are charged with some regularity. The classic example is solicitation to commit murder, by "hiring" an undercover policeman to kill a troublesome spouse. I seem to recall that a corporate VP of Infoseek was convicted a few years ago of attempting to bring a fictional child across state lines to have sex with her.
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
Originally posted by: dolph
Originally posted by: gopunk
look folks, if some guy buys a bunch of flashbangs, body armor, semiautos, ammo, and proceeds to approach a bank, is it okay to arrest him for having the intent to rob a bank? i think so.

this is NOT simply a THOUGHT. he WENT to the place where he believed the child lived with several items that he had purchased for the occasion.

you're almost right in your analogy, except instead of going to a bank he walked into a broom closet, fully armed.

this is almost a textbook definition of entrapmnet, and any private attorney (or competent public defender) would love to have a case this easy.

apparently it isn't so easy because he was convicted and is in jail now.

the broom closet analogy is wrong. he went to a place expecting to get sex from a 10 yr old girl, not into a broom closet. if you go into a broom closet looking for money chances are you are too retarded to buy all these items in the first place. maybe if the broom closet had a big sign that said "bank here, no security on duty today."
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
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0
Originally posted by: Beau
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: gopunk
he had the intent

I'm sure that at some point you've dreamed about doing something illegal. Somebody slap the cuffs on gopunk, the lowlife worm.

yea but i didn't go so far as to prepare to do it, show up at the place, etc

That's like saying that I'm guilty of speeding because I got into my car, put my seat belt on, started the engine, and pulled out onto the street.... I did everything to prepare to do it, but I never actually did it....
rolleye.gif

um no. if you did all those things, then slammed down on the gas pedal but then got stopped by an officer before you broke the speed limit, you'd be closer to what happened.

if gopunk decided he really wanted to have sex with cindy crawford, went out, bought a ski mask, some rope, duct tape whatever, some sex toys and got caught crawling into the window of her house, i'm sure he'd be arrested for intent to do SOMETHING, be it rape or murder or whatever.

 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
Originally posted by: vi_edit
This is messy, and I think it's even more of a mess because it involves the words "child" and "rape" in the headlines.

It's tough to make a rational call on an emotional topicl.
Exactly...

 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
0
Originally posted by: Beau
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: gopunk
he had the intent

I'm sure that at some point you've dreamed about doing something illegal. Somebody slap the cuffs on gopunk, the lowlife worm.

yea but i didn't go so far as to prepare to do it, show up at the place, etc

That's like saying that I'm guilty of speeding because I got into my car, put my seat belt on, started the engine, and pulled out onto the street.... I did everything to prepare to do it, but I never actually did it....
rolleye.gif

That's one of the worst comparisons I have ever heard. There is a big difference in getting in your car and driving than buying sex toys and going to a 10 year old's house. If somebody came up to your door with a gun in his hand, would you not want him arrested?
 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,730
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Originally posted by: Beau
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: gopunk
he had the intent

I'm sure that at some point you've dreamed about doing something illegal. Somebody slap the cuffs on gopunk, the lowlife worm.

yea but i didn't go so far as to prepare to do it, show up at the place, etc

That's like saying that I'm guilty of speeding because I got into my car, put my seat belt on, started the engine, and pulled out onto the street.... I did everything to prepare to do it, but I never actually did it....
rolleye.gif

That's one of the worst comparisons I have ever heard. There is a big difference in getting in your car and driving than buying sex toys and going to a 10 year old's house. If somebody came up to your door with a gun in his hand, would you not want him arrested?

Not until he assaulted me with it. There's nothing illegal about holding a gun. But if he aims it at me, then yes.... that is illegal. The only difference between the comparisons was the severity of the potential result. The principal is the same.
 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,730
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: fisher

um no. if you did all those things, then slammed down on the gas pedal but then got stopped by an officer before you broke the speed limit, you'd be closer to what happened.

It's still the same situation. I wouldn't have been ticketed for speeding, which was what I was intending to do. Maybe some other violation, but not speeding.

if gopunk decided he really wanted to have sex with cindy crawford, went out, bought a ski mask, some rope, duct tape whatever, some sex toys and got caught crawling into the window of her house, i'm sure he'd be arrested for intent to do SOMETHING, be it rape or murder or whatever.


He wouldn't have been arrested for anything but tresspassing.

The point is that you are not GUILTY OF A CRIME UNTIL YOU COMMIT IT.
 

MacBaine

Banned
Aug 23, 2001
9,999
0
0
Originally posted by: Beau
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Originally posted by: Beau
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: gopunk
he had the intent

I'm sure that at some point you've dreamed about doing something illegal. Somebody slap the cuffs on gopunk, the lowlife worm.

yea but i didn't go so far as to prepare to do it, show up at the place, etc

That's like saying that I'm guilty of speeding because I got into my car, put my seat belt on, started the engine, and pulled out onto the street.... I did everything to prepare to do it, but I never actually did it....
rolleye.gif

That's one of the worst comparisons I have ever heard. There is a big difference in getting in your car and driving than buying sex toys and going to a 10 year old's house. If somebody came up to your door with a gun in his hand, would you not want him arrested?

Not until he assaulted me with it. There's nothing illegal about holding a gun. But if he aims it at me, then yes.... that is illegal. The only difference between the comparisons was the severity of the potential result. The principal is the same.

So if I came over to your house with a dildo and a video camera in my hand, and I asked to see your 10 year old daughter, you wouldn't have me arrested?

Edit: Nevermind, I see what you are saying now.
 

mcveigh

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2000
6,457
6
81
well if I show up at your house with gun, a shovel and 2 bags of lime. I hope they don't arrest me till i've commited a crime. I got my rights damnit.
rolleye.gif
 

Beau

Lifer
Jun 25, 2001
17,730
0
76
www.beauscott.com
Originally posted by: mcveigh
well if I show up at your house with gun, a shovel and 2 bags of lime. I hope they don't arrest me till i've commited a crime. I got my rights damnit.
rolleye.gif

Scary, but true. Remember, murder isn't the first crime you'd be committing, assault is.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: mcveigh
well if I show up at your house with gun, a shovel and 2 bags of lime. I hope they don't arrest me till i've commited a crime. I got my rights damnit.
rolleye.gif

So when you show up at a friends house that just happens to have a young child and you just happen to have a porn magazine in your car, you're guilty of intent to rape a minor? Glad to know that.
 

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
Oh dear...does this mean that I've *raped* Britney Spears, Ali Landry, Natalie Portman, Carmen Elektra, Pamela Anderson, Christina Aguilera, Brooke Burke, Jessica Alba, Eliza Dushku, and the local weather girl??? I have pics of all of them on my PC, and I have *definately* had the intent to fornicate with one or more of these babes (often at the same time!)

LOCK ME UP FOR LIFE!!!

Preach on brother! Preach on!
 

lukatmyshu

Senior member
Aug 22, 2001
483
1
0
I think that most people in this thread don't particularly mind that he is in Jail. The guy obviously has some issues, and I don't particularly want him walking around the streets where he could harm innocent children. At the same time arresting him for attempted rape, of a fictional character implies a lot of things we do are potentially much-more harmful acts. If my wife says she is having an affair with a man sitting in the room next door, and I pick up a gun and walk into the room .. and instead I find a group of cops waiting to bust me, should i be charged with attempted murder? Sure what I did was wrong, but is it that harsh? What this seems to be doing is shifting the focus of the justice system ... instead of catching criminals who commit crimes instead we're testing individuals ... seeing if they're willing to break a law.