1099 Forms - Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

[Apple Of Sodom]

From what I read of sec 1096 in the UHC bill it doesn't seem to change anything and just reiterates the wording in the 1986 law that dictates 1099 reporting requirements.

As a small business owner it means ANYONE that you pay over $600 to is potentially subject to requiring a 1099. About the only ones you don't have to worry about are major corps that are certain to have a tax exemption cert, anyone else including the guy or shop who fixes the company truck you should ask for a copy of their tax exemption cert or get their SS# or TaxID # and file a 1099 for them.

Please tell us more about this tax exempt certificate. It specifically states that is not an organization exempt from tax UNDER SECTION 501(a).

Is Wal-Mart a 501(a) corporation? Yes or no answer please.

HR 3590 EAS/PP
"1 that is not an organization exempt from tax under section
2 501(a)."

 

[GuitarDaddy]

When did Wal-Mart, Target, Apple et al become tax exempt organizations? Please explain this to us. Not being a smart-ass.

There are a few reasons why major corps file for tax exempt certs, the majors are:
1. To avoid paying sales tax on inventory items for resale, when they buy goods from manufacturers/distributors they have to provide their cert or get charged state and local sales taxes.
2. To prevent business that buy from them having to issue 1099s to them.

To be eligible for tax exempt status corporations have to demonstrate through audited financial statements and associated tax returns that they fully report all the income that flows through their listed accounts. After all the purpose of 1099's is an attempt to capture income that would not be reported otherwize, so once a company proves to the IRS that it reports all of its sources of income then 1099's become not needed.

And this is precisely why most small businesses and entrepenuers don't bother with tax exempt certs because it brings a whole new level of scrutiny and a higher burden of proof in the accuracy of their books. For them the only benifit is avoiding a relatively small amount of sales tax on inventories and supplies and for most that bennie is not enough to offset the added regulation and scrutiny. Now for small businesses which are "material intense" in other words a large part of their cost of sales is materials for example a home builder it is definately worth the effort for them to get a tax exemption.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Please tell us more about this tax exempt certificate. It specifically states that is not an organization exempt from tax UNDER SECTION 501(a).

Is Wal-Mart a 501(a) corporation? Yes or no answer please.

HR 3590 EAS/PP
"1 that is not an organization exempt from tax under section
2 501(a)."

Yes Wal-Mart is definately tax exempt under section 501(a) of the tax code

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

There are a few reasons why major corps file for tax exempt certs, the majors are:
1. To avoid paying sales tax on inventory items for resale, when they buy goods from manufacturers/distributors they have to provide their cert or get charge state and local sales taxes.
2. To the prevent business that buy from them having to issue 1099s to them.

To be eligible for tax exempt status corporations have to demonstrate through audited financial statements and associated tax returns that they fully report all the income that flows through their listed accounts. After all the purpose of 1099's is an attempt to capture income that would not be reported otherwize, so once a company proves to the IRS that it reports all of its sources of income then 1099's become not needed.

And this is precisely why most small businesses and entrepenuers don't bother with tax exempt certs because it brings a whole new level of scrutiny and a higher burden of proof in the accuracy of their books.

I understand that. This isn't about local and state tax though. This is about federal tax codes. It still says that it doesn't apply for coprorations that are tax exempt UNDER 501(a). You said 99% of businesses fall into this category.

Do you recant your statement or are you going to tell me how Dell is a 501(a)?

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Yes Wal-Mart is definately tax exempt under section 501(a) of the tax code

Publication 557 states that an organization must fall under one of these categories to be exempt. Which one is Wal-Mart?

501(c)(1) — Corporations Organized Under Act of Congress (including Federal Credit Unions)
501(c)(2) — Title Holding Corporation for Exempt Organization
501(c)(3) — Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations
501(c)(4) — Civic Leagues, Social Welfare Organizations, and Local Associations of Employees
501(c)(5) — Labor, Agricultural, and Horticultural Organizations
501(c)(6) — Business Leagues, Chambers of Commerce, Real Estate Boards, etc.
501(c)(7) — Social and Recreational Clubs
501(c)(8) — Fraternal Beneficiary Societies and Associations
501(c)(9) — Voluntary Employees Beneficiary Associations
501(c)(10) — Domestic Fraternal Societies and Associations
501(c)(11) — Teachers' Retirement Fund Associations
501(c)(12) — Benevolent Life Insurance Associations, Mutual Ditch or Irrigation Companies, Mutual or Cooperative Telephone Companies, etc.
501(c)(13) — Cemetery Companies
501(c)(14) — State-Chartered Credit Unions, Mutual Reserve Funds
501(c)(15) — Mutual Insurance Companies or Associations
501(c)(16) — Cooperative Organizations to Finance Crop Operations
501(c)(17) — Supplemental Unemployment Benefit Trusts
501(c)(18) — Employee Funded Pension Trust (created before June 25, 1959)
501(c)(19) — Post or Organization of Past or Present Members of the Armed Forces
501(c)(21) — Black lung Benefit Trusts
501(c)(22) — Withdrawal Liability Payment Fund
501(c)(23) — Veterans Organization (created before 1880)
501(c)(25) — Title Holding Corporations or Trusts with Multiple Parents
501(c)(26) — State-Sponsored Organization Providing Health Coverage for High-Risk Individuals
501(c)(27) — State-Sponsored Workers' Compensation Reinsurance Organization
501(c)(28) — National Railroad Retirement Investment Trust

 

[nonlnear]

I still am trying to figure out why 99% of businesses are 501(a) organizations...that baffles me. Anyone?

Because if your business can manage to pay out all of its profits in the form of wages and (permitted) reinvestment, then you don't have to be "for profit", and being tax exempt under a 501 category can exempt you from many other taxes as well... (edit: I didn't mean to imply that 501 status does this automatically - it clearly does not, but only that some jurisdictions extend other benefits as well.)

The profit/not for profit terminology used in common parlance to distinguish between types of corporations is HIGHLY misleading. All corporations are for profit except those that are in some suicidal operating mode (like trusts winding down operations, or just plain stupid companies). The distinction between "charitable" and "for profit" corporations is a tradeoff between tax liability and operational flexibility.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Publication 557 states that an organization must fall under one of these categories to be exempt. Which one is Wal-Mart?

501(c)(1) — Corporations Organized Under Act of Congress (including Federal Credit Unions)
501(c)(2) — Title Holding Corporation for Exempt Organization
501(c)(3) — Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations
501(c)(4) — Civic Leagues, Social Welfare Organizations, and Local Associations of Employees
501(c)(5) — Labor, Agricultural, and Horticultural Organizations
501(c)(6) — Business Leagues, Chambers of Commerce, Real Estate Boards, etc.
501(c)(7) — Social and Recreational Clubs
501(c)(8) — Fraternal Beneficiary Societies and Associations
501(c)(9) — Voluntary Employees Beneficiary Associations
501(c)(10) — Domestic Fraternal Societies and Associations
501(c)(11) — Teachers' Retirement Fund Associations
501(c)(12) — Benevolent Life Insurance Associations, Mutual Ditch or Irrigation Companies, Mutual or Cooperative Telephone Companies, etc.
501(c)(13) — Cemetery Companies
501(c)(14) — State-Chartered Credit Unions, Mutual Reserve Funds
501(c)(15) — Mutual Insurance Companies or Associations
501(c)(16) — Cooperative Organizations to Finance Crop Operations
501(c)(17) — Supplemental Unemployment Benefit Trusts
501(c)(18) — Employee Funded Pension Trust (created before June 25, 1959)
501(c)(19) — Post or Organization of Past or Present Members of the Armed Forces
501(c)(21) — Black lung Benefit Trusts
501(c)(22) — Withdrawal Liability Payment Fund
501(c)(23) — Veterans Organization (created before 1880)
501(c)(25) — Title Holding Corporations or Trusts with Multiple Parents
501(c)(26) — State-Sponsored Organization Providing Health Coverage for High-Risk Individuals
501(c)(27) — State-Sponsored Workers' Compensation Reinsurance Organization
501(c)(28) — National Railroad Retirement Investment Trust

501(a) has nothing to do with 501(c)'s which you have listed.

I'm not going to argue with you, if you don't understand that Walmart is tax exempt I can't help you. Asking me to prove to you that Walmart has tax exempt status is like asking a pro ball player to explain why there are 3 outs per inning in baseball

If you don't believe I suggest you call Wallyworlds home office in Bentonville and tell them you want their tax payer ID because you need to issue them a 1099 :biggrin: let me know how that works for ya

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I understand that. This isn't about local and state tax though. This is about federal tax codes. It still says that it doesn't apply for coprorations that are tax exempt UNDER 501(a). You said 99% of businesses fall into this category.

Do you recant your statement or are you going to tell me how Dell is a 501(a)?

Dell is not a 501(a), 501(a) is the section of the IRS tax code that exempts retail sellers from paying sales tax on purchases. And Dell is tax exempt pursuant to that section.

I'm done with 1099 school. If you want more info go study IRS tax code


Bottom line is none of these articles where written by tax experts, they were written by partisan hacks looking for an excuse to bash the UHC bill, and as usual the reality of the details is overlooked.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

501(a) has nothing to do with 501(c)'s which you have listed.

I'm not going to argue with you, if you don't understand that Walmart is tax exempt I can't help you. Asking me to prove to you that Walmart has tax exempt status is like asking a pro ball player to explain why there are 3 outs per inning in baseball

If you don't believe I suggest you call Wallyworlds home office in Bentonville and tell them you want their tax payer ID because you need to issue them a 1099 :biggrin: let me know how that works for ya

Section 501 is all about exemption from tax on corporations, certain trusts, etc. 501(a) describes how an organization can become exempt. 501(c) is the listing of all organization types that can be exempt.

Stating that 501(c) and 501(a) have nothing to do with each other is stupid. 501 is all about exemption.

§ 501. Exemption from tax on corporations, certain trusts, etc.
(a) Exemption from taxation
An organization described in subsection (c) or (d) or section 401 (a) shall be exempt from taxation under this subtitle unless such exemption is denied under section 502 or 503.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Dell is not a 501(a), 501(a) is the section of the IRS tax code that exempts retail sellers from paying sales tax on purchases. And Dell is tax exempt pursuant to that section.

I'm done with 1099 school. If you want more info go study IRS tax code


Bottom line is none of these articles where written by tax experts, they were written by partisan hacks looking for an excuse to bash the UHC bill, and as usual the reality of the details is overlooked.

Here it is in all of its glory. This is 501(a).

(a) Exemption from taxation
An organization described in subsection (c) or (d) or section 401 (a) shall be exempt from taxation under this subtitle unless such exemption is denied under section 502 or 503.

It states that in order to be tax exempt you must be described in subsection (c) which I've posted, subsection (d) which is religious and apostolic organizations, or section 401(a), which is for qualified pension, profit-sharing, and stock bonus plans.

So, to become Tax Exempt you must prove you fall under 401(a) 501(c) 501(d). Please tell me which classification Wal-Mart falls under.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

C'mon GuitarDaddy. As a CPA with over 30 years of experience you should be able to tell me where Wal-Mart falls.

You assert they are 501(a) Tax Exempt, which means they must fall under 501(c), 501(d), or 401(a). So, which is it?

Surely, this should be easy for someone with such experience. Hell, if I had been doing anything for 30 years I would expect to be an expert on it who could answer such simple questions.

Wait, then again you told me that 501(a) tax exempt is the status Dell has so they don't have to pay local and state sales tax on resellable items...

 

[Fern]

I'm also a CPA with over 30 yrs of experience. Please re-think your assertions below:

FYI I am a CPA with over 30yrs experience and I control the issue of 1099's for a multimillion dollar multi national corporation. And just like the idoit authors of the misinformed article you quote you overlooked an inportant part of SEC. 9006 which has already been posted in this thread

HR 3590 EAS/PP
"1 that is not an organization exempt from tax under section
2 501(a)."

That little phrase means if the corporation posseses a tax exemption certificate which 99% of all corporations do, that sending a 1099 is not required.

But by all means send all the 1099's you feel necessary to Walmart, Target, Apple, IBM, Exxon and the like I'm sure they will get a kick out of it.

You guys are too funny, common sense doesn't even register with you guys

No, 99% of corporations do not possess a tax exemption under section 501.

Section 501(a) encompasses sections other sections such as 501(c) etc.

Sec. 501. Exemption from tax on corporations, certain trusts, etc.

(a) Exemption from taxation
An organization described in subsection (c) or (d) or section
401(a) shall be exempt from taxation under this subtitle unless
such exemption is denied under section 502 or 503.

So 501 (a) is the 'umbrella section' which covers all other mentioned within. This means typical non-profit organization such as the Red Cross (a 501(c)(3) nonprofit org) and pension/retirement plans (401(a) nonprofits) are exempt from being "persons" under the Form 1099 reporting requirements.

Until now, payments to corporations (except law firms) didn't need to be reported. By making this change, unless the Sec of Treas adds an exemption, millions of Forms 1099 would now be required.

From what I read of sec 1096 in the UHC bill it doesn't seem to change anything and just reiterates the wording in the 1986 law that dictates 1099 reporting requirements.

As a small business owner it means ANYONE that you pay over $600 to is potentially subject to requiring a 1099. About the only ones you don't have to worry about are major corps that are certain to have a tax exemption cert, anyone else including the guy or shop who fixes the company truck you should ask for a copy of their tax exemption cert or get their SS# or TaxID # and file a 1099 for them.

There are a few reasons why major corps file for tax exempt certs, the majors are:
1. To avoid paying sales tax on inventory items for resale, when they buy goods from manufacturers/distributors they have to provide their cert or get charged state and local sales taxes.
2. To prevent business that buy from them having to issue 1099s to them.

To be eligible for tax exempt status corporations have to demonstrate through audited financial statements and associated tax returns that they fully report all the income that flows through their listed accounts. After all the purpose of 1099's is an attempt to capture income that would not be reported otherwize, so once a company proves to the IRS that it reports all of its sources of income then 1099's become not needed.

And this is precisely why most small businesses and entrepenuers don't bother with tax exempt certs because it brings a whole new level of scrutiny and a higher burden of proof in the accuracy of their books. For them the only benifit is avoiding a relatively small amount of sales tax on inventories and supplies and for most that bennie is not enough to offset the added regulation and scrutiny. Now for small businesses which are "material intense" in other words a large part of their cost of sales is materials for example a home builder it is definately worth the effort for them to get a tax exemption.

Yes Wal-Mart is definately tax exempt under section 501(a) of the tax code

Dell is not a 501(a), 501(a) is the section of the IRS tax code that exempts retail sellers from paying sales tax on purchases. And Dell is tax exempt pursuant to that section.

I'm done with 1099 school. If you want more info go study IRS tax code


Bottom line is none of these articles where written by tax experts, they were written by partisan hacks looking for an excuse to bash the UHC bill, and as usual the reality of the details is overlooked.

I see your confusion.

The 501 exemption has nothing to do with sales tax. It is an exemption from federal income tax.

Sales tax is NOT a federal tax anyway, it is a state tax and therefor any idea that federal statutes address exemption from (state) sales tax is incorrect.

I do not believe that the IRS wants to process this many new Forms 1099. So hopefully this apparently ridiculously burdensome new requirement will be greatly lessened in the regulations.

Fern

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Fern, your quite correct I was crossing the line and combining thoughts on Federal tax code and state sales tax exemptions. My apologies to the OP

However I still believe that the likelyhood that small businesses will be required to issue 1099's to large corporations is 0.0% just not going to happen. And I seriously doubt that was the intent or will be the ultimate interpretation of the wording in the UHC bill.

When I see small or large businesses issuing 1099's to Dell or Walmart, I'll eat my words but until then this is just partisan hackery like death panels and all the other crap rightwingers swear will be the result of UHC.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Fern, your quite correct I was crossing the line and combining thoughts on Federal tax code and state sales tax exemptions. My apologies to the OP

However I still believe that the likelyhood that small businesses will be required to issue 1099's to large corporations is 0.0% just not going to happen. And I seriously doubt that was the intent or will be the ultimate interpretation of the wording in the UHC bill.

When I see small or large businesses issuing 1099's to Dell or Walmart, I'll eat my words but until then this is just partisan hackery like death panels and all the other crap rightwingers swear will be the result of UHC.

It seems pretty unambiguous to me. Please tell me what the intent was. Please tell me how this is partisan hackery? I disagree with many republicans on gay rights, abortion, etc. so it isn't "partisan hackery" because, while I generally side more towards republicans, I do not walk in lock-step with them. For you to assume all democrats LOVE this bill would be stupid, just as you may assume all republicans HATE this bill.

My question wasn't about if you thought UHC was right, or if we have the money for it. The question was, how do you feel about them slipping this into it?

You can accept that UHC is a good bill even if some of the other shit in it doesn't make sense. There is plenty of stuff in the UHC that has NOTHING to do with UHC.

How would you feel about the bill if there was a line item in it criminalizing high-fructose corn syrup sales or making it illegal to have an abortion? Wouldn't you want those out of the bill?

The partisan hackery comes from you, my friend. The first asshole to cry "partisan hack" is the real partisan idiot.

As for your "little mistake" and confusion, I sure as shit wouldn't want someone who confuses a charitable organization with an organization that doesn't pay sales tax handling multi-million dollar accounts...

 

[Fern]

-snip-
The question was, how do you feel about them slipping this into it?

While not directed at me, I'd like to address that.

I suspect this was included in the HC bill to 'help with the numbers' to be calculated by the CBO. That type of compliance requirement could reasonably be expected to generate additional revenue because such things as non-reported casual sales between people and underreporting by small corp's came to a stop. Hehe, just the penalty for not filing a Form 1099 could be expected to raise some serious money:

The amount of the penalty is based on when you file the correct information return. The penalty is:

$15 per information return if you correctly file within 30 days (by March 30 if the due date is February 28); maximum penalty $75,000 per year ($25,000 for small businesses, defined later).

$30 per information return if you correctly file more than 30 days after the due date but by August 1; maximum penalty $150,000 per year ($50,000 for small businesses).

$50 per information return if you file after August 1 or you do not file required information returns; maximum penalty $250,000 per year ($100,000 for small businesses).

Hopefully, this was just a budget gimmick. I really don't believe the IRS wants this, or has the ability to process that much new data. Keypunching and storage of (paper) Forms 1099 would be a b!tch of epic proportions.

Fern

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

While not directed at me, I'd like to address that.

I suspect this was included in the HC bill to 'help with the numbers' to be calculated by the CBO. That type of compliance requirement could reasonably be expected to generate additional revenue because such things as non-reported casual sales between people and underreporting by small corp's came to a stop. Hehe, just the penalty for not filing a Form 1099 could be expected to raise some serious money:



Hopefully, this was just a budget gimmick. I really don't believe the IRS wants this, or has the ability to process that much new data. Keypunching and storage of (paper) Forms 1099 would be a b!tch of epic proportions.

Fern

I would agree with the penalty raising revenue...

Let's say they want to implement the penalty for not filing, which is the true intent, not so much catching the cheats. They would have two choices:

1. Process 1099 forms to find out who should be penalized
2. Do away with mandatory 1099 forms for corps but still institute a penalty. But then again there wouldn't be much opportunity for revenue if they don't require us to file forms for corporations...

While I am on board to catch tax cheats, my sincere hope is that they make a different threshold for 1099s for corporations. For example, maybe make the threshold be $10,000 or have a limit for small businesses, e.g. gross receipts under $1 million annually will not be required to submit 1099s.

My other thought is it is a budget trick. I can see the thinking:

1. $300 Billion goes uncollected due to back alley deals and underreporting
2. Require reporting and collect on that money to help pay for healthcare
3. The money collected would more than pay for healthcare.

Healthcare passes...then they say

4. We would need 20,000 more IRS workers to collect and process 1099 forms. We are doing away with this requirement.

 

[shira]

One thing I'm curious about -

Let's say I have an old MacBook Pro and I buy a new one to replace it. I then post my old MacBook on Craigslist for $600.

Someone like me, a small business owner who watches his bottom line, thinks that the laptop is a good deal. He purchases it with a check.

Come tax time I get a 1099 from this small business owner who uses it as a write-off (justifiably). Now I have to claim this as income? Are you kidding me?

No, you wouldn't have to claim it as income. Presumably, at the time of sale, you'll tell the buyer that you're selling used, private goods. And there will be a "category" on the 1099 (Resale of Private Goods) which is not taxable to the recipient.

If for some reason the 1099 had an erroneous category, you'd simply explain that as a statement on your tax return ("1099 # 4356765 erroneously categorized sale . . . ."). For almost all of us, the number of 1099s we'd receive each year for selling something to a business would be 0, and would require 0 effort.

If a particular seller had an unusually high number of "private sale of used goods" 1099s every year, that would raise a flag.

This is a method for catching tax cheats.

 

[soccerballtux]

It seems pretty unambiguous to me. Please tell me what the intent was. Please tell me how this is partisan hackery? I disagree with many republicans on gay rights, abortion, etc. so it isn't "partisan hackery" because, while I generally side more towards republicans, I do not walk in lock-step with them. For you to assume all democrats LOVE this bill would be stupid, just as you may assume all republicans HATE this bill.

My question wasn't about if you thought UHC was right, or if we have the money for it. The question was, how do you feel about them slipping this into it?

You can accept that UHC is a good bill even if some of the other shit in it doesn't make sense. There is plenty of stuff in the UHC that has NOTHING to do with UHC.

How would you feel about the bill if there was a line item in it criminalizing high-fructose corn syrup sales or making it illegal to have an abortion? Wouldn't you want those out of the bill?

The partisan hackery comes from you, my friend. The first asshole to cry "partisan hack" is the real partisan idiot.

As for your "little mistake" and confusion, I sure as shit wouldn't want someone who confuses a charitable organization with an organization that doesn't pay sales tax handling multi-million dollar accounts...

We don't have the money for it (UHC), that's why we'll be sending these tax forms.

 

[PaperclipGod]

FYI I am a CPA with over 30yrs experience and I control the issue of 1099's for a multimillion dollar multi national corporation. And just like the idoit authors of the misinformed article you quote you overlooked an inportant part of SEC. 9006 which has already been posted in this thread

HR 3590 EAS/PP
"1 that is not an organization exempt from tax under section
2 501(a)."

That little phrase means if the corporation posseses a tax exemption certificate which 99% of all corporations do, that sending a 1099 is not required.

But by all means send all the 1099's you feel necessary to Walmart, Target, Apple, IBM, Exxon and the like I'm sure they will get a kick out of it.

You guys are too funny, common sense doesn't even register with you guys

Quick -- someone find out what company GD works for! We can report them to the IRS, have them audited, and makes oodles on a short sale!

 

[WhipperSnapper]

This is just one more reason for us to end this mess and adopt real socialized medicine.

 

[Fern]

Originally Posted by Apple Of Sodom
One thing I'm curious about -

Let's say I have an old MacBook Pro and I buy a new one to replace it. I then post my old MacBook on Craigslist for $600.

Someone like me, a small business owner who watches his bottom line, thinks that the laptop is a good deal. He purchases it with a check.

Come tax time I get a 1099 from this small business owner who uses it as a write-off (justifiably). Now I have to claim this as income? Are you kidding me?

No, you wouldn't have to claim it as income. Presumably, at the time of sale, you'll tell the buyer that you're selling used, private goods. And there will be a "category" on the 1099 (Resale of Private Goods) which is not taxable to the recipient.
-snip-

Yes, you do.

Gains on the sale of "personal property" (that is, property not used in a trade or business) are taxable. He'd be required to report the $600 in proceeds and calculate any gain (sales price less basis). I.e., technically any sale is taxable (unless stocks from inside IRA or pension plan or done by a nonprofit in accordance with it's approved mission/purpose etc).

(In his case it's trade or business property anyway)

Under our US Income tax code there's damn little that's not considered as income etc.

Fern

 

[rudder]

This is just one more reason for us to end this mess and adopt real socialized medicine.

I say we ask the doctors what they think. after all they are the ones who went through a decade of college, med school, residency, etc and are likely saddled with loans. Are they really interested in getting an extreme cut in pay. Do they want that level of responsibility which would become way above their pay grade?

In the meantime, I agree lets end this obamacare mess.

 

[charrison]

I say we ask the doctors what they think. after all they are the ones who went through a decade of college, med school, residency, etc and are likely saddled with loans. Are they really interested in getting an extreme cut in pay. Do they want that level of responsibility which would become way above their pay grade?

In the meantime, I agree lets end this obamacare mess.

I agree. Dell and Bezos are investing in qliance, which will bring you routine healthcare for as little $50/month with no insurance or copays.

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/bezos-dell-and-carey-invest-in-qliance/?src=busln

anyone think govt healthcare will be that inexpensive or convenient?