Question 10900k real world comparison to 3900k . Maybe, if I can buy one.

[Markfw]

First, I can't find one. I want to only pay what it was while in stock, $530 (or close). I will only buy from Amazon, newegg, bestbuy, or maybe some other place that I have forgotten about in the US.

Second, it will be cooled with a 240 mm AIO, as I have an Intel E5-2683v3 14 core running one of those, and all my 3900x's use 240 mm AIO's, so this will be a fair comparison.

NOW, If I find one, I want to hear from Intel advocates (and others are welcome) As to the best inexpensive (but must be equal to AMD that I have) motherboard to get a good real comparison. NO Overclocking. About $200-250 for the motherboard, thats what I spent on my AMD boards. The only x570 board I have is on my 3950x, so this will be 3900x on x470 vs 10900k on ????

So recommendations on where to find a CPU, and what motherboard will give a fair comparison to a 3900x. Again, this may not happen, if I can;t find a CPU. I am getting another Rome CPU soon, so money could be a problem.

Lastly, NO gaming benchmarks or comparisons, you camers can just read the reviews. I concede that the 10900k is the best gaming CPU by a few FPS if you are going for max FPS.

And my motivation for this project ? "put your money where your mouth is". I am going to TRY and do that here.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@Pumice

It depends on the game. If you are "serious" you will want to shoot for DDR4-3800 CL14 or as close to that as you can get. But I think we are veering off-topic here. In 1440p or higher you will probably not notice it anyway.

 

[aigomorla]

Right, but what I would like to know is if the drop in FPS for the Ryzen causes a large enough drop in FPS that gaming at 1920 x 1080 or 2560 x 1440 or 3840 x 2160 will be unpleasant , or will I still get smooth gameplay ?

At the moment I am either going with the Radeon rx 5700 xt or the GeForce RTX 2060 super.

1080 u wont notice squat.... as your already beyond the realm of noticing it.
1440 depends on how many options you set on ultra...
4k... you really shouldn't even go there on a 2060, as its 2080 territory, and even then with some options on ultra you'll get noticeable frame lag.
IMO 4k should only really be attempted on a 2080ti for it to be enjoyable with all the eye candy.

So will it matter?
Not really... even at 1440 your going to see at best 10fps and probably less on the min.

In reality i would go with whatever platform gave you the most PCI-E lanes.
CPU's at this point is moot when it comes to game play.
Its about PCI-E lanes now, as that dictates how many addon cards / nVME / GPU's you can expand on your system.

 

[LikeLinus]

Right, but what I would like to know is if the drop in FPS for the Ryzen causes a large enough drop in FPS that gaming at 1920 x 1080 or 2560 x 1440 or 3840 x 2160 will be unpleasant , or will I still get smooth gameplay ?

At the moment I am either going with the Radeon rx 5700 xt or the GeForce RTX 2060 super.

I would do some research on benchmarks for the games you play. Can't say for sure when using resolutions over 1080p. Either chip should perform smooth at 1080p.

 

[Pumice]

@Pumice

It depends on the game. If you are "serious" you will want to shoot for DDR4-3800 CL14 or as close to that as you can get. But I think we are veering off-topic here. In 1440p or higher you will probably not notice it anyway.

It was either a Youtube video or an article that mentioned going over 3800mhz or 4000mhz resulted in throttling down of the ram speed, with the end result being 3600mhz ram was faster than 4000mhz ram. I can't recall the details but do recall the throttling being dependent on higher mhz ram.

 

[Rigg]

It was either a Youtube video or an article that mentioned going over 3800mhz or 4000mhz resulted in throttling down of the ram speed, with the end result being 3600mhz ram was faster than 4000mhz ram. I can't recall the details but do recall the throttling being dependent on higher mhz ram.

The Infinity fabric clock (FCLK) has limits. Depending on the quality of the IMC on the Individual CPU the upper FCLK typically tops out at 1800-1900 mhz. 3000 CPU's can decouple RAM speed (MCLK) from FCLK and run at speeds higher than 1900 MHz (3800 MT/s) but there is a massive latency penalty because the FCLK needs to run a 2-1 ratio instead of 1-1. The 2-1 MCLK/FCLK decoupling penalty can't be overcome with raw speed until you can reach around 5000 Mt/s. This kind of speed is really impractical with DDR4. For this reason it's not recommended to run MCLK higher than the maximum speed your FCLK can run stable. That is why the 3800 MT/s RAM is outperformed by the 4000 MT/s RAM.

 

[RetroZombie]

Does anyone know some one who tested amd or intel systems with memory that have:
-low clock (2400/2600Mhz) and low latency
-low clock (2400/2600Mhz) and high latency
-high clock (3800/4000Mhz) and low latency
-high clock (3800/4000Mhz) and high latency
-medium clock (2933/3200Mhz) and low latency
-medium clock (2933/3200Mhz) and high latency

I know of the Hardware Unboxed tests but was looking something to see how much performance the memory 'costs', at the same price if there is better value investing in high clock memory modules or low latency memory modules?

 

[DrMrLordX]

It was either a Youtube video or an article that mentioned going over 3800mhz or 4000mhz resulted in throttling down of the ram speed, with the end result being 3600mhz ram was faster than 4000mhz ram. I can't recall the details but do recall the throttling being dependent on higher mhz ram.

So long as you are running your IF and DRAM in sync with one another, there's no real problem. Current AM4 CPUs can't run IF faster than about 1900 MHz, though allegedly the 3900XT could do 2000 MHz IF.

 

[JoeRambo]

Does anyone know some one who tested amd or intel systems with memory that have:

This polish site did part of these tests:

Jaka pamięć RAM do Intel Core i9-10900K? Test DDR4 2133-4000 MHz | PurePC.pl

Jaka pamięć RAM do Intel Core i9-10900K? Test DDR4 2133-4000 MHz (strona 27) Jaka pamięć operacyjna RAM do procesora Intel Core i9-10900K? Test pamięci DDR4 2133-4000 MHz na platformie LGA 1200 z procesorem Intel Core i9-10900K i HyperX Predator.

www.purepc.pl

CL16 is not really a low latency ( only 4000CL16 is highendish with 8ns first word) , but You can see that scaling really never ends on 2080TI.

Personally I would shoot for 3800CL15 with handtuned secondaries and tertiaries. That should be doable for ~1.4V mem voltage and sane VCCSA/VCCIO voltages.

 

[RetroZombie]

This polish site did part of these tests:

Thanks! Very informative, even with the same exact latency in all the tests we can see at least how clock scaling hit a wall at around 3200Mhz in most of the tests.
Now the same for amd no such luck?

 

[lightmanek]

Thanks! Very informative, even with the same exact latency in all the tests we can see at least how clock scaling hit a wall at around 3200Mhz in most of the tests.
Now the same for amd no such luck?

I can help answering that.
That site did a hell of a job over the past months in testing various memory configurations on different systems. As an example here are tests from dual channel single rank vs dual rank modules plus two and four DIMMs.
Results are quite interesting!
Memory tests SR vs DR in 2 and 4 DIMM configuration


And this is their article testing various frequency vs timing on Ryzen platform:
AM4 Ryzen Memory scaling test

 

[amrnuke]

Some can hit IF at 1900, RAM at 3800 with tight timings which would, based on that data, be almost perfect until the IF can climb higher.

 

[Keysplayr]

keys! LTNS yo..
Kinda ironic saying you don't game anymore when you used to be a Nvidia Focus Group.

For me its the otherway around.
I still am a hardcore gamer, so i am always after the fastest gaming choice.
I also do a lot of encodes, so i really need that AVX.
My family would cry if my Plex server could not transcode, but i have a Quadro P2000 doing that over NVEC, and the cpu also has QuickSync, but the Quadro is probably more overpowered for job.

The only reason i would go AMD is probably for the PCI-E lanes as i have broke that 10TB of SSD capacity, and want to double it next time in pure nVME's, which will require a ton of PCI-E lanes as i also run dual Video Cards and also want that 10GBE nic.
So yeah, most likely ThreadRipper is in my next lineup as main.

What's up Aigo! Yeah I know. It seems I don't have the compulsive gaming need I used to have. Blame it on age, or new interests overtaking an older one. I do game but the games I revert to are older CoD2 and some newer space simulations. The space sims are relaxing. LOL. Sounds like you have some serious hardware going on over there. While I likely don't need what you have, I would like a system with a lot of processing power for media creation. Music DAW (Cubase)(Studio One)(Cakewalk)(ProTools) Etc. I use many different ones. Also Video creation using the music I make from the DAWs. I would guess GPU isn't anywhere near important as CPU for my usage. I do have a GTX 1060 6GB which is more than sufficient for my gaming needs. Looking also for a laptop also that can hack it. Going in a vocal isolation booth for recording with above listed DAWs. Mobile CPUs are tricky and branded strangely. It can have a similar model number as a desktop cpu but abysmally slower. Anyway, I'll hit the laptop forum for that.
I'm looking right now at Ryzen 3900X or Intel 9900K. I think Intels new 10 series is looking like more technology tricks than actual innovation to get higher benchmark scores. I dunno.
Good hearing from you bud!

 

[jpiniero]

Was in stock again at Newegg for a few minutes. Been 8 days since it was last in stock.

 

[Markfw]

Was in stock again at Newegg for a few minutes. Been 8 days since it was last in stock.

I have pretty much given up looking for it. I have better things to do, rather than scanning for it constantly.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It's almost as though Intel has given up on their own CPU.

 

[mopardude87]

It's almost as though Intel has given up on their own CPU.

When life gives you no Intel options, go AMD! All i got for you sir. You prob remember the shortage when i got my stuff, finding a dang X570 mobo was dang impossible cause of all the panic buying. Curious if there is still panic shopping and if its effecting the shortage of this cpu?

 

[DrMrLordX]

When life gives you no Intel options, go AMD!

As much as I like AMD, I don't want a world where the only realistic option for DiY desktop PCs is AMD. Competition is good, and Intel failing to compete is bad. Intel not stocking any of their CPUs for whatever reason is also bad. Sure, we got to see plenty of10900k reviews, but if nobody can actually buy the chips, what's the point in even discussing them?

 

[mopardude87]

As much as I like AMD, I don't want a world where the only realistic option for DiY desktop PCs is AMD. Competition is good, and Intel failing to compete is bad. Intel not stocking any of their CPUs for whatever reason is also bad. Sure, we got to see plenty of10900k reviews, but if nobody can actually buy the chips, what's the point in even discussing them?

True but what can you do? Oh i miss the competition being legit believe me, hopefully everything fixes itself soon. I should have mentioned if more people are time constrained on a build then go AMD my bad. Someone like me could wait a eternity for a upgrade, at this point i may have to for a reasonable upgrade.

I been eyeballing a 10900k as a option for a pure gaming box and secondary folder, so if i do this soon then i am gonna have the same issue as everyone else.

 

[RetroZombie]

Was in stock again at Newegg for a few minutes. Been 8 days since it was last in stock.

This is the part that is very weird because according to anandtech:
«Overall, Intel is using the new 10C silicon for the ten core i9 parts, as well as for the eight core i7 parts where those get dies with two cores disabled. The company has a native 6C Comet Lake-S design, but they're also using harvested dies as well. At this point it appears that the K/KF parts – the i5-10600K and i5-10600KF – get the harvested 10C design»

If that's the case how they have 8 core parts in stock and not the 10 core?
Do you guys think that after all this time on 14nm, intel still have yield issues?

 

[Zucker2k]

If it's any other company someone would've shouted COVID-19 by now, so, COVID-19!

Looking at the trend, as well as news on Reddit, the best place to pick one up in the US right now is your local Microcenter, on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. They're not advertising online because they want you to come to the store. Best thing is to talk to the BYOPC guys for news and tips.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

When life gives you no Intel options, go AMD! All i got for you sir. You prob remember the shortage when i got my stuff, finding a dang X570 mobo was dang impossible cause of all the panic buying. Curious if there is still panic shopping and if its effecting the shortage of this cpu?

Panic buying? I disagree with that analysis. With stay at home orders, high unemployment, and lack of places to go for entertainment, demand has logically risen for home entertainment. People are not buying PC stuff out of panic, but rather need. You go to fire up a newer game, and your old system is driving the struggle bus, so you go looking for upgrades. Only to discover demand is up, and the ability to supply the demand is down. That is the problem here, not panic buying.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[mopardude87]

Panic buying? I disagree with that analysis. With stay at home orders, high unemployment, and lack of places to go for entertainment, demand has logically risen for home entertainment. People are not buying PC stuff out of panic, but rather need. You go to fire up a newer game, and your old system is driving the struggle bus, so you go looking for upgrades. Only to discover demand is up, and the ability to supply the demand is down. That is the problem here, not panic buying.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Oh i was basing the idea off this. I figured for quite some time it had merit, honestly who knows given i never lived through a pandemic in my entire life. I will agree with you now ,but during the time of purchase i feel this video had more merit. I had a heck of a time finding parts i needed, i dang near went Intel cause well it had a overstock of inventory while AMD had a huge shortage. I was patient and i waited quite a bit for parts to come into stock, then i jumped on what i wanted.

 

[jpiniero]

Panic buying? I disagree with that analysis. With stay at home orders, high unemployment, and lack of places to go for entertainment, demand has logically risen for home entertainment. People are not buying PC stuff out of panic, but rather need. You go to fire up a newer game, and your old system is driving the struggle bus, so you go looking for upgrades. Only to discover demand is up, and the ability to supply the demand is down. That is the problem here, not panic buying.

This isn't just a sudden thing that DIY isn't being properly supplied. It's has been going on since November.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Oh i was basing the idea off this. I figured for quite some time it had merit, honestly who knows given i never lived through a pandemic in my entire life. I will agree with you now ,but during the time of purchase i feel this video had more merit. I had a heck of a time finding parts i needed, i dang near went Intel cause well it had a overstock of inventory while AMD had a huge shortage. I was patient and i waited quite a bit for parts to come into stock, then i jumped on what i wanted.

He was wrong. Part of his argument was e-waste. Yet his audience is primarily DIY, and we are savvy. Which means we sell our used parts, we are not adverse to buying used parts, and we almost never trash working PC parts. I won't address the rest of his points, he was playing the contrarian to look smarter than the other popular tech tubers, and failed.

I agreed with Jay and Linus, both of which urged people to get that prospective build or upgrade done while they could. And urged people to build at that time, here on the forums. And @jpiniero is right about the supply problems. But that doesn't help people like yourself, that were not aware of them, or listened to Steve's terrible advice.

As to being able to build an Intel system but not AMD, I will leave that to the reader to decide as to why that is. I am not here to get anyone's hackles up.

 

[VirtualLarry]

We knew for MONTHS that the "PSU shortage" was coming up. As early as BF last year, or maybe before that. At least, I did, from watching about issues, mostly the market collapse due to GPU mining not being profitable anymore, so a few BFs ago, you could get really big, really high-quality units for cheap, because there was a surplus in the market now that miners were no longer soaking up that supply. And then the Tariffs on Chinese-mfg'ed goods, which were talked about on YT before they were implemented. So then, the (over)supply of higher-end PSUs dried up, the market semi-normalized, prices went up across the board due to tariffs, and this was all pre-pandemic! Then the pandemic hit, supply-chain problemw, even higher prices and less availability still! And then people got their Stimulus checks, and went to town, doing what else? Buying PCs and PC parts, because they were shut-in, and wanted some decent entertainment. Also, $1200 was around just the right price to build or buy a new decent PC.