1080P and 360/PS3

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Ridge Racer 7 is 1080p all the time.

Most PS3 games output to 720p, almost all of them do actually. TVs have significantly better scaling hardware by necessity, they are going to handle several different resolutions all the time. PC monitors it would be a waste to add comparable scaling hardware, I know I wouldn't consider spending extra for something I have a video card for, and monitors make rather poor displays compared to TVs for movies or most games of the non RTS/FPS variety.

I'm not sure why they don't make consoles that can output to standard VGA and WVGA resolutions though.

It would be an incredible waste of money, comparable to having expensive scaling hardware in a PC monitor. Percentage wise almost noone does it. It is likely more popular to run PC games on a HDTV then the other way around.

This. Computer monitors leave the heavy lifting of scaling to the video cards, because they can. TVs don't have this luxury, so they need to have good scaling hardware built-in.

All that I know is, if you look at multi-platform games, the box for the 360 version usually lists 1080p and the PS3 version usually only lists 720p. I doubt that Microsoft is lying about their games outputting at 1080p, or you know they would have been hit by ten thousand false advertising lawsuits by now!

It's scaled to the resolution. It's not 1080p. There are onoly a handful of games on both systems that are NATIVE 1080p. Not even GT5 is Native 1080p. It's 1280x1080 upscaled to 1920x1080.

He does make an interesting point though. Why are they putting 1080p on the games when they aren't? I've wondered why there hasn't been a class action suit yet... Someone sues MS for everything else, and this is clearly (and intentionally) mis-labeling products to deceive consumers.

Because no ones sued them yet, and they can probably get away on a technicality that it outputs 1080p to the screen, even though the game doesnt support it.

Im pretty sure Halo 3 says 1080p on the box, and it doesnt even do full 720p.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Matt2
That's why I dont buy this "TVs scale better" banter being thrown out in this thread. Scaling to a certain resolution is not going to make a low res, blurry and washed out picture look as it would if it were 1080p native. The scaling only refers to the amount of pixels displayed.

Because people have been led to believe that there is some sort of magic upscaling that exists, hence the proliferation of "upscaling" DVD players.

When in reality, the players (or consoles) do nearly nothing that the TV can't already do.

I personally run my 360 at 720p, because the TV does a slightly better job upscaling. If I do run across a "true 1080p" game, I still would rather run it at 720p, because the GPUs in the console don't get magically upgraded...theyre usually barely sufficient at 720p. Some games even run noticeably better in 480p than in 720p, such as GTA4.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Ridge Racer 7 is 1080p all the time.

Most PS3 games output to 720p, almost all of them do actually. TVs have significantly better scaling hardware by necessity, they are going to handle several different resolutions all the time. PC monitors it would be a waste to add comparable scaling hardware, I know I wouldn't consider spending extra for something I have a video card for, and monitors make rather poor displays compared to TVs for movies or most games of the non RTS/FPS variety.

I'm not sure why they don't make consoles that can output to standard VGA and WVGA resolutions though.

It would be an incredible waste of money, comparable to having expensive scaling hardware in a PC monitor. Percentage wise almost noone does it. It is likely more popular to run PC games on a HDTV then the other way around.

This. Computer monitors leave the heavy lifting of scaling to the video cards, because they can. TVs don't have this luxury, so they need to have good scaling hardware built-in.

All that I know is, if you look at multi-platform games, the box for the 360 version usually lists 1080p and the PS3 version usually only lists 720p. I doubt that Microsoft is lying about their games outputting at 1080p, or you know they would have been hit by ten thousand false advertising lawsuits by now!

It's scaled to the resolution. It's not 1080p. There are onoly a handful of games on both systems that are NATIVE 1080p. Not even GT5 is Native 1080p. It's 1280x1080 upscaled to 1920x1080.

He does make an interesting point though. Why are they putting 1080p on the games when they aren't? I've wondered why there hasn't been a class action suit yet... Someone sues MS for everything else, and this is clearly (and intentionally) mis-labeling products to deceive consumers.

Because no ones sued them yet, and they can probably get away on a technicality that it outputs 1080p to the screen, even though the game doesnt support it.

Im pretty sure Halo 3 says 1080p on the box, and it doesnt even do full 720p.

That is sort of the point though... The 360 will upscale ANY game to 1080p if that is what you set the console to, but doesn't that sort of make having some games listed as 720p and others as 720p and 1080p deceptive because it implies that there is a difference between the two games? Don't get me wrong, I don't even think that it should be required or necessary for games to list their supported resolutions, but if they do they should be honest. MS and the game dev/publisher are clearly using "1080p" as a selling point because it's become a sales buzzword these days.

edit: and you're completely right about Halo 3, "HDTV 720p/1080i/1080p".

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Ridge Racer 7 is 1080p all the time.

Most PS3 games output to 720p, almost all of them do actually. TVs have significantly better scaling hardware by necessity, they are going to handle several different resolutions all the time. PC monitors it would be a waste to add comparable scaling hardware, I know I wouldn't consider spending extra for something I have a video card for, and monitors make rather poor displays compared to TVs for movies or most games of the non RTS/FPS variety.

I'm not sure why they don't make consoles that can output to standard VGA and WVGA resolutions though.

It would be an incredible waste of money, comparable to having expensive scaling hardware in a PC monitor. Percentage wise almost noone does it. It is likely more popular to run PC games on a HDTV then the other way around.

This. Computer monitors leave the heavy lifting of scaling to the video cards, because they can. TVs don't have this luxury, so they need to have good scaling hardware built-in.

All that I know is, if you look at multi-platform games, the box for the 360 version usually lists 1080p and the PS3 version usually only lists 720p. I doubt that Microsoft is lying about their games outputting at 1080p, or you know they would have been hit by ten thousand false advertising lawsuits by now!

It's scaled to the resolution. It's not 1080p. There are onoly a handful of games on both systems that are NATIVE 1080p. Not even GT5 is Native 1080p. It's 1280x1080 upscaled to 1920x1080.

He does make an interesting point though. Why are they putting 1080p on the games when they aren't? I've wondered why there hasn't been a class action suit yet... Someone sues MS for everything else, and this is clearly (and intentionally) mis-labeling products to deceive consumers.

Because no ones sued them yet, and they can probably get away on a technicality that it outputs 1080p to the screen, even though the game doesnt support it.

Im pretty sure Halo 3 says 1080p on the box, and it doesnt even do full 720p.

That is sort of the point though... The 360 will upscale ANY game to 1080p if that is what you set the console to, but doesn't that sort of make having some games listed as 720p and others as 720p and 1080p deceptive because it implies that there is a difference between the two games? Don't get me wrong, I don't even think that it should be required or necessary for games to list their supported resolutions, but if they do they should be honest. MS and the game dev/publisher are clearly using "1080p" as a selling point because it's become a sales buzzword these days.

edit: and you're completely right about Halo 3, "HDTV 720p/1080i/1080p".

Yep, I agree its deceptive, but I'm not sure its worth a lawsuit.

Although IIRC, the 360 didnt start listing 1080p on the box until after the PS3 came out, which also claimed to support 1080p for games that didnt really, and then it became a bit of a pissing match, like back when systems were measured in bits. Now theyre measured in Ps....

 

[Thraxen]

Here's the thing though... it can be argued that the resolutions on the box are technical information intended to be used so people can match it up to what video signals their TV supports. IMO, this is really what that information should mean.

What some of you are arguing is that the games should list their rendering resolutions. That would only serve to confuse most consumers. Or what about games that alter their rendering resolution on the fly to maintain frames? What would you put on the box then? Can you imagine the confusion from the average consumer if a game said stuff like 640p on the box? "What is this? My TV only does 720p and 1080p".

I think things are fine the way they are. If you're really that concerned about rendering resolutions there's always some pixel counting nerd on the internet that figures these things out. Half the time they figure it out before games are released based off the pre-release screenshots.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Here's the thing though... it can be argued that the resolutions on the box are technical information intended to be used so people can match it up to what video signals their TV supports. IMO, this is really what that information should mean.

What some of you are arguing is that the games should list their rendering resolutions. That would only serve to confuse most consumers. Or what about games that alter their rendering resolution on the fly to maintain frames? What would you put on the box then? Can you imagine the confusion from the average consumer if a game said stuff like 640p on the box? "What is this? My TV only does 720p and 1080p".

I think things are fine the way they are. If you're really that concerned about rendering resolutions there's always some pixel counting nerd on the internet that figures these things out. Half the time they figure it out before games are released based off the pre-release screenshots.

I see what you are saying, but they just shouldn't list anything if they are genuinely not trying to be confusing. The 360 works on fine on 720p/1080i/p TVs, and most owners of a 360 already know this.

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
I see what you are saying, but they just shouldn't list anything if they are genuinely not trying to confusing. The 360 works on fine on 720p/1080i/p TVs, and most owners of a 360 already know this.

Yeah, it's somewhat useless on the 360 because it has a decent scaler chip and supports all the common outputs for every game. It actually means something on the PS3 though. The PS3 has a lot of games that support 720p, but that the system doesn't upscale to 1080i/p. So it's useful information for people with older HDTVs that can't do 720p.

 

[postmortemIA]

Now we all can agree that although premium gaming on PC costs more, you at least can play on native resolution and enjoy the graphics. Anytime nvidia or ati tries to pull off some image degradation technique, every hw site scream fault.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: postmortemIA
Now we all can agree that although premium gaming on PC costs more, you at least can play on native resolution and enjoy the graphics. Anytime nvidia or ati tries to pull off some image degradation technique, every hw site scream fault.

I think that about sums it up for me.