• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

100,000v stun gun, $16 no rebates

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Originally posted by: NiNe
Go ahead and get one for some fun, but do not, I repeat - "Do NOT", use these for self-defense. I think these companies should be held criminally liable for marketing these for self-defense.

I used to be a cop. We tested these -- on ourselves -- and I'm talking the ones that were used in Cook County Jail (Chicago). They hurt. But that's it. If you are not afraid of it or if you are resistant to pain (i.e. intoxicated), these are crap. I've held one of these to my solar plexus for a decent 5-count, and yes, I was sober at the time. At least they don't claim anymore that these will knock you down and disrupt your nervous system for 15 minutes, which is what they used to say back in the late 80s.

Pepper spray is far more effective. Any device that relies on pain only is asking for trouble because it won't work on the people that are truly a danger. But Pepper spray is not only an irritant, it is an inflammatory. It will cause swelling of all mucous membranes and therefore constriction of openings. That means it will make it harder to breathe and harder to see (swelling of the iris) -- plus it hurts like hell and keeps on hurting (for about 30-45 minutes). If you don't believe me, google around some police discussion groups, or rent the first season of Jackass. Johnny Knoxville personally discovered just what I'm talking about. Pepper spray is by far the most effective non-lethal personal defense item available to the public.
Click to expand...


I'll second the effectiveness of pepper. I got some for my wife to carry around and my stupid brother didn't know what it was and sprayed it in the living room--it was uninhabitable for about an hour. But like any other self-defense you have to have time to use it.
 
OK, real cop here.

The "bull" taser made by the company that makes the human version (X26). I "rode the lightning" a month ago. Longest, most painful 5 seconds of my life. You get stiff and fall just like the bull. The bull taser and the X26 both shoot out two little harpoons (to stick and stay in the skin) attached to two fine wires. You get 50,000 volts at very low amps, so no lasting damage, but you get a 5 second ride of the most pain you could imagine. You can get tasered again and again as long as the little harpoons are still in your skin.

Pepper spray isn't worth a @#$. Most people can fight through pepper spray. Don't bring spray to a knife fight, you'll be dead. They'll just kill you with a little more fury. (Taser is a sure knock down.) It is very ineffective on drunks, those on meth, PCP, coke highs and mentals. You always get it on you somehow, wind, mist, dripping from the can, wrestling with the bad guy covered with pepper spray.

Good luck, just don't taser someone sprayed with oil based pepper spray unless you want them to look like Richard Pryor.

The concentration (5%, 10%) has no difference in burn strength other than the 10% burns longer than the 5%.

Taser Web site

about $800 each plus cartridges
 
The members of the PGA (Poison Gas Association) disagree as to what is really effective.

The discussion of voltage and current (amperage) is, I think, more complex. As Ohm's Law suggests (V=iR), the resistance of the path between the two voltages plays a major role in the current that is going to pass. NiNe's 12V battery doesn't have sufficient jazz to do much when the terminals are grabbed by two dry hands, but establish a conductive current path (water with some electrolyte, like salt, in it) and it will be an entirely different story. Accidently dropping a wrench across the terminals of a charged battey yields quite a compelling display, too.

The microwave argument may not be too good as it operates at 120VAC. Can't do too much when the charging current changes direction 60 times a second. I'm guessing the microwave might do some rectification to DC, but I've no idea what tht might be.

Regarding the kind of voltage that could be generated from a 9V system, I think it could be pretty high, but with the attendant decrease in current.

One of the great learning experiences of my life was when I placed my hand on the top (instead of the side) of the distributor of a 1966 Chevy. I think that was ONLY about 30,000 V, but it made quite the impression. My father said that my scream made him think that I had caught my hand in the fan belt...

I think modern ignitions are now somewhere arounf 100,000 V. Er...no thanks.
 
Don't bring spray to a knife fight, you'll be dead. They'll just kill you with a little more fury.
Click to expand...

BS

Military police use pepper as do many local and state police. I'm quite sure it's effective. The reaction of the mucous membranes to pepper is involuntary and not dependent on how tough one thinks they are. You simply cannot keep your eyes open enough to see let alone breathe without choking.
 
Originally posted by: Richardito
Originally posted by: insename2
wow 100000v... give it a couple of amps and it'll kill
Click to expand...

FYI one amp or more will kill you, voltage does not matters...
Click to expand...

actually, at 120 volts and 60Hz, it's far less than 1 amp... lethal current is measured in microamps.

Voltage does matter, as BigLar pointed out, V=IR. A sufficient potential difference is necessary to get a current across the body. If the skin is broken, the needed voltage is far less than that needed if the skin is intact.

A static charge (the shock from scraping your feet on the carpet and touching a doorknob) is generally measured in the 10's of thousands of volts.

Van de Graffs (static generators - the big spheres you put your hands on and your hair stands up) generate a couple hundred thousand volts (or more)

If you don't think a couple of little batteries can produce something lethal, consider those portable defibrillators (shock the heart back to a normal rhythm)

And, I've been shocked 1000's (10's of thousands?) of times harmlessly by the Van de Graff during physics demonstrations (100,000 volts or more.) I also charge up a leyden jar (basically a bottle with aluminum foil on the outside and inside) with the Van de Graff. Only once did I have an accident with the leyden jar; I'll never be as careless again. While holding it in one hand and opening a door, my opposite arm bumped the top of the jar. Knocked me on my a@@ for about 15 minutes.

And, finally, Tasers are illegal in some states, including NY.
 
Originally posted by: fitzov
Don't bring spray to a knife fight, you'll be dead. They'll just kill you with a little more fury.
Click to expand...

BS

Military police use pepper as do many local and state police. I'm quite sure it's effective. The reaction of the mucous membranes to pepper is involuntary and not dependent on how tough one thinks they are. You simply cannot keep your eyes open enough to see let alone breathe without choking.
Click to expand...


Your post clearly shows your wealth of experience on this subject. I'm sure you'll be OK. That's why those same departments bought $800 tasers when $2 pepper spray is so effective.
I'm sure your spray can aim is so good while in a fight or flight situation that you hit them directly in the eyes with that narrow stream of pepper spray or hope his mouth is open so you can get it down their throat. It's not like spray paint. It takes 3-4 seconds for the burn of pepper to start for a sober person. If you're mano a mano with someone who wants to beat the @#$# out of you, especially when they're drunk or high, they will be all over you in 3-4 seconds if they're close enough to spray them, and now even more pissed off. If you're naive enough to think no one can fight just because their eyes are closed or they are coughing, (apparently you think they "choke" and "can't breathe" after being sprayed) on pepper spray good luck to you. Be prepared to fight or run like hell after using pepper spray.

 
Might be useful to remember that Power is equal to the current times the voltage or the current squared times the resistance or voltage squared divided by the reisistance:

P=iV=(i^2)R = (V^2)/R

and this whole discussion is really about power, not so much about energy.

I suspect it also matters what the internal resistance ("iR loss") of the current generator is. In batteries, iR loss is what makes the voltage sag as the current draw increases. I suspect the iR loss for a van de Graff generator is fairly high, and I suspect the measurable loss for a nuclear/coal-fired/natural gas turbine generator is low...not to mention that a few hundred amps off the grid is a small portion of the available current.

In terms of the Leyden jar, I guess it had a lot more capacitance than the VDG generator, and hence the greater impression.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top