10-bit per color channel video card?

[bad144]

For newer monitors that support 30-bit color, I'm looking for a video card that also supports the full 10-bits per color channel. It seems that most geforce/radeon hd cards only support 8 bits per channel.

According to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreen_(GPU_family)
evergreen-based GPUs supoort 10-bit per channel via displayport.
This would suggest that a cheap sapphire radeon card with would suffice.
Yet over at dpreview.com, it's claimed that an adobe engineer is still working with ATI on this and ATI's drivers aren't "ready for prime time".
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1004&thread=35690143

Also ATI documentation only shows 10-bit mode being configurable with their higher end firepro cards.

Anyone know what video card anandtech uses to evaluate these 30-bit monitors like was done in the hp zr30w review? I'm guessing they were using a desktop ATI card in a mac. Model?
I'd really like to get this working in a lower-end card than the "workstation" class cards.

 

[Voo]

Afaik that's not really a GPU but a driver thing, so if you can get hacked FirePro (or the nvdia counterpart, always forget the name) drivers to run you should be fine.

But that's obviously a non-official hack, so depends on how much official support and less fiddling is worth for you.

 

[bad144]

Afaik that's not really a GPU but a driver thing, so if you can get hacked FirePro (or the nvdia counterpart, always forget the name) drivers to run you should be fine.

But that's obviously a non-official hack, so depends on how much official support and less fiddling is worth for you.

I don't mind fiddling with driver settings if it actually works. It would save a few hundred bucks to get a lower end card, and allow me to stick with a passive cooler. However my interest is in linux and OSX and all I've seen is a post over at notebookreview.com where someone got the "Enable 10-bit pixel format support" option to appear by tweaking a windows .inf. Not clear whether or not that actually made 10-bit pass-thru actually work. I suspect it didn't work.

 

[Phynaz]

What apps support 10bit color?

 

[Voo]

Umn, Linux probably makes that a bit more problematic, you used to be able to just add the GPU name to the ini of a firepro driver and install it afterwards, but that's a) old information and no idea if it still works and b) probably limited to Windows.

With Nvidia cards you had to change the ID of the GPU to get it to install Quadro drivers.

Best bet would probably be to ask that on some Linux maillists - I don't see why it shouldn't work with linux - as long as there are firepro/quadro drivers for the counterpart - but asking can't harm.

Ah one important thing not to forget: You need a consumer card that has a professional counterpart, e.g. 4870 - V8750

 

[bad144]

Umn, Linux probably makes that a bit more problematic,

I'd settle for OSX support only even. No need to get hung up over linux. I don't mind running the proprietary ati/nvidia linux drivers however.

you used to be able to just add the GPU name to the ini of a firepro driver and install it afterwards, but that's a) old information and no idea if it still works and b) probably limited to Windows.

Yes, exactly. That's what the thread I referenced showed. And no idea whether it actually ever truly worked (resulted in 10-bit output).

Ah one important thing not to forget: You need a consumer card that has a professional counterpart, e.g. 4870 - V8750

Well if the information about radeon hd displayport support is correct, one may just need any consumer grade card with displayport and proper driver support. I think an ideal card would be the radeon hd 5670 with displayport. Low price, low TDP.

Back to my original question:

Anyone know what video card anandtech uses to evaluate these 30-bit monitors like was done in the hp zr30w review? From the color quality section of that review the author seems to have tested with 30-bit.

 

[bad144]

What apps support 10bit color?

For starters

Adobe photoshop
http://www.amd.com/US/PRODUCTS/WORKSTATION/GRAPHICS/TOOLS/Pages/tools.aspx
Final cut
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/specs/

 

[Voo]

Well if the information about radeon hd displayport support is correct, one may just need any consumer grade card with displayport and proper driver support. I think an ideal card would be the radeon hd 5670 with displayport. Low price, low TDP.

That'd be a FirePro 3D V4800. And you don't need DP, the wiki article states that HDMI works as well and since DVI is more or less HDMI without audio..

But it's still the same - asking around in a linux/mac os x specific mailing list is probably your best idea. I mean I'm rather sure that if you spoof the device ID the driver can't distinguish the cards and will install properly (or if it's just comparing strings in an ini file like it does on windows even easier) - at least Mac OS X has firepro drivers, with linux I wouldn't be too sure.

If you want specific info to the reviews you can mail the reviewer (anand answered my questions pretty fast) but I very much doubt that AT would base a review on hacked drivers and not mention it.

 

[bad144]

That'd be a FirePro 3D V4800. And you don't need DP, the wiki article states that HDMI works as well and since DVI is more or less HDMI without audio..

The info that indicates that 10-bit works via evergreen gpus makes no mention of firepro.
HDMI would be a non-starter for a 30" 10 bit display since it wouldn't support 2560×1600

If you want specific info to the reviews you can mail the reviewer (anand answered my questions pretty fast) but I very much doubt that AT would base a review on hacked drivers and not mention it.

Thanks anyways.
I asked here as anandtech had the most in-depth review of color performance, gamut, etc.

From the comments on the zr30w article it sounds like 30-bit may have never been tested even though the article implied it with:
"I have no trouble believing that HP's claims about 1+ billion colors are totally accurate - you have to see it in person to believe it. There are just some colors I'm used to not seeing represented very well; reds and blues especially, and the photos that I have looked at are spectacular."

Oh well I'll look elsewhere.

 

[Deathray2K]

The HDMI 1.3 specification defines a bit depths of 30 bits (1.073 billion colors), 36 bits (68.71 billion colors), and 48 bits (281.5 trillion colors).[2] In that regard, the NVIDIA Quadro graphics cards support 30-bit deep color [3] as do some models of the Radeon 5800 series such as the HD 5970[4][5]. The ATI FireGL V7350 graphics card supports 40-bit and 64-bit color.[6]

At WinHEC, 2008 Microsoft announced that color depths of 30-bit and 48-bit would be supported in Windows 7, along with the wide color gamut scRGB (which can be converted to xvYCC output).[7][8]

From Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth#Industry_support

 

[Rifter]

HDMI would be a non-starter for a 30" 10 bit display since it wouldn't support 2560×1600

What the hell are you talking about? HDMI 1.4 supports up to 4096×2160 at up to 36 bit color.






If you cannot comment on the subject at hand with more courtesy and less rudeness, you need to stay out of the thread


esquared
Anandtech Administrator

 

[bad144]

From Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth#Industry_support

The problem is, the wikipedia information is a bit contradictory.
The wikipedia page I cited in my first post claims the whole evergreen family is 10-bit capable. On closer inspection that claim seems to just be extrapolation based upon the AMD slides that indicate that the evergreen class GPUs have 10-bit display pipelines.

If that original wikipedia article is right, even cards with low TDP&price, like the 5670 I mentioned, would suffice. Yet nobody seems to have information on these cards passing all 10-bits in practice.

The 5970 mentioned in the page you quote would be high TDP and as expensive as a workstation graphics card. And still not confirmed to work. Not a great option IMO.

I did actually see that page already, and also other pages that claim that the radeon hd 4870 could do 10 bit. Still looking for confirmation as to whether or not any of the sub-workstation cards *implement* 10-bit all the way thru.

Obviously not only does the GPU chip have to have the capability, but the card has to implement it on some of the ports (displayport only? dual link dvi?), and the driver has to support it as well.

 

[bad144]

What the hell are you talking about? HDMI 1.4 supports up to 4096×2160 at up to 36 bit color.

ah heck off.
The cards being referred to in the comment about HDMI were ATI evergreen class cards, which don't do HDMI 1.4. The spec sheets for ATI evergreen class cards list 1920x1200 as the max resolution for HDMI. See for example AMD's own posted specs:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...5970/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5970-overview.aspx#2

If you don't have anything to contribute to the subject of this thread why are you even bothering to post? Please don't crap on my thread.

 

[Rifter]

ah heck off.
The cards being referred to in the comment about HDMI were ATI evergreen class cards, which don't do HDMI 1.4. The spec sheets for ATI evergreen class cards list 1920x1200 as the max resolution for HDMI. See for example AMD's own posted specs:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...5970/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5970-overview.aspx#2

If you don't have anything to contribute to the subject of this thread why are you even bothering to post? Please don't crap on my thread.

sorry, i thought they were 1.4, it doesnt matter though even 1.3 still supports up to 2560×1600 at 30 bit depth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

look at the chart halfway down the page, 1.3 only drops to 19x12 when you hit 36bit depth.

So if ATI is saying they support the 1.3 HDMI spec then they would also support 30 bit at 2560x1600.

 

[Rifter]

also just noticed on this spec sheet a 4850 should do what you need, lists 30 bit support at 25x16 look under the Two integrated dual-link DVI display outputs bullet.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk.../Pages/ati-radeon-hd-4850-specifications.aspx

 

[Rifter]

also worth mentioning i guess that the Nvidia GTX 460 supports HDMI 1.4a which would also give you 30 bit support at that res, im unsure about the cheaper 450 but you might want to see if it supports it as well.

 

[T2k]

Nvidia: latest professional Quadros only
ATI: all 5800-series as well as corresponding FirePros

Once again if you go with NV you get the extra tax...

PS: it's not HDMI 1.4 what you need but Windows 7 Pro and DisplayPort as there's no HDMI 1.4 monitor available.

 

[bad144]

Nvidia: latest professional Quadros only
ATI: all 5800-series as well as corresponding FirePros

That would be what I'd guess from the xbitlabs article on the 5870. Do you have any more concrete info you can share on the 58xx?

Once again if you go with NV you get the extra tax...

None of the choices seem to be worth an upgrade to me frankly.

PS: it's not HDMI 1.4 what you need but Windows 7 Pro and DisplayPort as there's no HDMI 1.4 monitor available.

Yes, of the two current gen 30" displays I've looked into, the hp doesn't even have HDMI and the dell u3011 I just got documents a 1920x1200 limit for hdmi (and it's v1.3).

Hopefully we can stop talking about HDMI theory now

 

[xslavic]

its somehow not going to well with HTPC and TV,because of colour profiles
you need the TV colour profile uploaded to ATI Catalyst

I read somewhere that DXVA has limit in colour bits ,but i get full range with A6 3670k and its a clearer image than with software decoding
-problem is no player can beat Windows 7 WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER 12
madavr is a fake ,so need to set it up well first
- its like that driver control center is limited in options "or make it Auto for all or make it with more options "

 

[Peter Nixeus]

HDMI 1.4 can only support resolutions higher than 1920x1200 if the refreshed rate is lowered (from display default of 60Hz). For example HDMI 1.4 can only support 4K x 2K resolutions at 24Hz.

We have 2560x1600 and 2560x1440 monitors and HDMI 1.4 have issues syncing, waking from sleep, and transmitting those resolutions even at lowered refresh rates.