10-23-08 How the Rich Cheat On Their Taxes

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Xavier434
As I already stated, if there is a cost efficient way to plug these loop holes then I am all for it. Just remember that when and if you do this you will see a large increase in social service expenses. Many of these people live paycheck to paycheck and do not have money to spare and no additional expenses to cut because all of their expenses are necessities. I'd rather these people live their lives off of social services while not reporting their tips personally. Which seems better to you?

There really is no easy way to do this right. Those with more money always talk about what is fair, but what is fair is not always a cheaper and efficient solution that makes a difference. If it were that easy then it would have already been done long before you and I were born. I think that if we went after the low income earners hardcore when it comes to their evasion of taxes we would just end up in a worse position in the sense that more tax dollars would be spent needlessly and all for the sake of giving people like you and I some sort of peace of mind over what we believe is "fair". Not really worth it imo. It feels fair but it also feels very wasteful. My life will not get better and I doubt that yours will either.

Thank you for supporting my opinion

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I believe the major difference between what you and I theorize is what is truly cost efficient in terms of plugging up loopholes in the tax code. I believe that it is much easier to do that when it comes to the methods that the rich use than it is to plug up the methods of the lower income earners. Of course, neither one of us can truly be sure. We can only hope that someday the politicians both figure it out and enforce it. That goes for any party.

I think anyone would agree we need to simplify. But, as you said, how to go about doing it. I know one way to keep taxes away from one's money is to move it off shore. THAT I dont have a problem with. The schemes used with shell corps should be fixed though.

 

[Specop 007]

Big fucking deal if they cheat. They STILL pay more then the unemployed lazy BUMS in this country who get money FOR FREE.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Big fucking deal if they cheat. They STILL pay more then the unemployed lazy BUMS in this country who get money FOR FREE.

How dare you! They constitutionally DESERVE free money! How many times must you be told...it is not OUR responsibility to take care of our own financial success. It's the richs'!

 

[StageLeft]

David, please learn how to use the quote tags. Open a quote tag like this:

[ q ] (remove the spaces)
<text goes here>
[ /q ] <- then it's closed.

You've been here for almost a decade, you fvck this up at least once a day, come on.

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Big fucking deal if they cheat. They STILL pay more then the unemployed lazy BUMS in this country who get money FOR FREE.

Amazing, isn't it? People who rake in $millions/yr are resentful about paying the lowest tax rates in the first world, so they cheat the tax man, bad mouth the less fortunate...

Now that's the true face of compassionate conservatism.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
From the article:

"In its 2001 tax gap study, the IRS estimated that individuals underreported business income by 43% overall. Sole proprietors, who report self-employment income on schedule C of their tax returns, underreported their income a stunning 57%."

Dave's self-employed, isn't he?

ZV

When cash comes into a business, it can be easily under-reported.

When I get paid by my clients, they usually fill out a 1099 form on myself or my corp for their accounting purposes. I never have a contract (more than $1K) that I do not get paid by check or EFT.

One of the two of us has to pay tax on the income I generate, they client has already paid for my services, they do not want to shoulder the tax on it also.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Big fucking deal if they cheat. They STILL pay more then the unemployed lazy BUMS in this country who get money FOR FREE.

Amazing, isn't it? People who rake in $millions/yr are resentful about paying the lowest tax rates in the first world, so they cheat the tax man, bad mouth the less fortunate...

Now that's the true face of compassionate conservatism.

Well they have displayed their disdain for the ordinary American in Black & White for all to see forever.

 

[winnar111]

Tax the rich! Tax the rich! Tax the rich!

They respond with their feet.

http://www.flashreport.org/fea...?faID=2008121604522765

In 2004, voters narrowly approved Proposition 63, the Mental Heath Services Act (MHSA), which imposed an additional 1% tax on personal income above $1 million. The funds generated from this ?millionaire?s tax? were intended to expand county mental health programs. Taxpayer and business groups opposed the measure for a couple of obvious reasons. First, California is already a high tax, high spending state that didn?t need any more revenue. Second, as we predicted, Prop 63 would exacerbate California?s income tax volatility.

Although the final vote for Proposition 63 was tallied more than four years ago, evidence suggests that California?s most wealthy have continued to vote on this measure ? with their feet. A recent survey from TNS Research, an international business research firm, found the California counties of Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego had the 1st, 4th and 6th highest number of millionaires in the country. However, even as the national population of millionaire households grew by 5.9% in 2007, Los Angeles County lost about 7000 of these households. Orange and San Diego Counties lost millionaire households as well.

Milton Friedman?s maxim that few things are as mobile as rich people and capital, is proven starkly by data showing the wealthy are leaving California in record numbers. It is probably no coincidence that, while California has been punishing the successful for the sin of being rich, Maricopa County in neighboring Arizona gained 23,000 new millionaire households in the same time period. Arizona?s top marginal personal income tax rate is 4.79%, less than half California?s rate of 10.3%, which includes the Prop. 63 surcharge.

When California millionaires choose to become Florida or Nevada millionaires, the consequences to the state?s economy is profound. In California, the top 10% of earners pay nearly 75% of income taxes. If the trend of millionaire households relocating out of state continues, it will make finding the revenue to fund essential state services even more difficult.



Rofl! :laugh:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Tax the rich! Tax the rich! Tax the rich!

They respond with their feet.

http://www.flashreport.org/fea...?faID=2008121604522765

In 2004, voters narrowly approved Proposition 63, the Mental Heath Services Act (MHSA), which imposed an additional 1% tax on personal income above $1 million. The funds generated from this ?millionaire?s tax? were intended to expand county mental health programs. Taxpayer and business groups opposed the measure for a couple of obvious reasons. First, California is already a high tax, high spending state that didn?t need any more revenue. Second, as we predicted, Prop 63 would exacerbate California?s income tax volatility.

Although the final vote for Proposition 63 was tallied more than four years ago, evidence suggests that California?s most wealthy have continued to vote on this measure ? with their feet. A recent survey from TNS Research, an international business research firm, found the California counties of Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego had the 1st, 4th and 6th highest number of millionaires in the country. However, even as the national population of millionaire households grew by 5.9% in 2007, Los Angeles County lost about 7000 of these households. Orange and San Diego Counties lost millionaire households as well.

Milton Friedman?s maxim that few things are as mobile as rich people and capital, is proven starkly by data showing the wealthy are leaving California in record numbers. It is probably no coincidence that, while California has been punishing the successful for the sin of being rich, Maricopa County in neighboring Arizona gained 23,000 new millionaire households in the same time period. Arizona?s top marginal personal income tax rate is 4.79%, less than half California?s rate of 10.3%, which includes the Prop. 63 surcharge.

When California millionaires choose to become Florida or Nevada millionaires, the consequences to the state?s economy is profound. In California, the top 10% of earners pay nearly 75% of income taxes. If the trend of millionaire households relocating out of state continues, it will make finding the revenue to fund essential state services even more difficult.



Rofl! :laugh:

As Dave would say, GOOD RIDDANCE! :laugh:

Hows that taxing the rich towards prosperity idea working?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: winnar111
Tax the rich! Tax the rich! Tax the rich!

They respond with their feet.

http://www.flashreport.org/fea...?faID=2008121604522765

In 2004, voters narrowly approved Proposition 63, the Mental Heath Services Act (MHSA), which imposed an additional 1% tax on personal income above $1 million.

However, even as the national population of millionaire households grew by 5.9% in 2007, Los Angeles County lost about 7000 of these households. Orange and San Diego Counties lost millionaire households as well.[/b]

Milton Friedman?s maxim that few things are as mobile as rich people and capital
Rofl! :laugh:

As Dave would say, GOOD RIDDANCE! :laugh:

Hows that taxing the rich towards prosperity idea working?

Excellent, now 88 new taxes added in New York so maybe they will leave NY too.

At this rate they won't want to be here at all very soon. :thumbsup:

Here's proof:

Can you help those hurt by the Financial Crisis???

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: winnar111
Tax the rich! Tax the rich! Tax the rich!

They respond with their feet.

http://www.flashreport.org/fea...?faID=2008121604522765

In 2004, voters narrowly approved Proposition 63, the Mental Heath Services Act (MHSA), which imposed an additional 1% tax on personal income above $1 million.

However, even as the national population of millionaire households grew by 5.9% in 2007, Los Angeles County lost about 7000 of these households. Orange and San Diego Counties lost millionaire households as well.[/b]

Milton Friedman?s maxim that few things are as mobile as rich people and capital
Rofl! :laugh:

As Dave would say, GOOD RIDDANCE! :laugh:

Hows that taxing the rich towards prosperity idea working?

Excellent, now 88 new taxes added in New York so maybe they will leave NY too.

At this rate they won't want to be here at all very soon. :thumbsup:

Here's proof:

Can you help those hurt by the Financial Crisis???

So instead of leave the US it's just NY now eh? Man you sound so much like a republican.

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Tax the rich! Tax the rich! Tax the rich!

They respond with their feet.

http://www.flashreport.org/fea...?faID=2008121604522765

In 2004, voters narrowly approved Proposition 63, the Mental Heath Services Act (MHSA), which imposed an additional 1% tax on personal income above $1 million. The funds generated from this ?millionaire?s tax? were intended to expand county mental health programs. Taxpayer and business groups opposed the measure for a couple of obvious reasons. First, California is already a high tax, high spending state that didn?t need any more revenue. Second, as we predicted, Prop 63 would exacerbate California?s income tax volatility.

Although the final vote for Proposition 63 was tallied more than four years ago, evidence suggests that California?s most wealthy have continued to vote on this measure ? with their feet. A recent survey from TNS Research, an international business research firm, found the California counties of Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego had the 1st, 4th and 6th highest number of millionaires in the country. However, even as the national population of millionaire households grew by 5.9% in 2007, Los Angeles County lost about 7000 of these households. Orange and San Diego Counties lost millionaire households as well.

Milton Friedman?s maxim that few things are as mobile as rich people and capital, is proven starkly by data showing the wealthy are leaving California in record numbers. It is probably no coincidence that, while California has been punishing the successful for the sin of being rich, Maricopa County in neighboring Arizona gained 23,000 new millionaire households in the same time period. Arizona?s top marginal personal income tax rate is 4.79%, less than half California?s rate of 10.3%, which includes the Prop. 63 surcharge.

When California millionaires choose to become Florida or Nevada millionaires, the consequences to the state?s economy is profound. In California, the top 10% of earners pay nearly 75% of income taxes. If the trend of millionaire households relocating out of state continues, it will make finding the revenue to fund essential state services even more difficult.



Rofl! :laugh:

Might want to examine the other old maxim, that correlation is not causation. But that would be inconvenient, of course...

 

[StageLeft]

Looks like you're figuring out the quoting, Dave, good stuff. :thumbsup:

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Originally posted by: winnar111
Tax the rich! Tax the rich! Tax the rich!

They respond with their feet.

http://www.flashreport.org/fea...?faID=2008121604522765

In 2004, voters narrowly approved Proposition 63, the Mental Heath Services Act (MHSA), which imposed an additional 1% tax on personal income above $1 million. The funds generated from this ?millionaire?s tax? were intended to expand county mental health programs. Taxpayer and business groups opposed the measure for a couple of obvious reasons. First, California is already a high tax, high spending state that didn?t need any more revenue. Second, as we predicted, Prop 63 would exacerbate California?s income tax volatility.

Although the final vote for Proposition 63 was tallied more than four years ago, evidence suggests that California?s most wealthy have continued to vote on this measure ? with their feet. A recent survey from TNS Research, an international business research firm, found the California counties of Los Angeles, Orange and San Diego had the 1st, 4th and 6th highest number of millionaires in the country. However, even as the national population of millionaire households grew by 5.9% in 2007, Los Angeles County lost about 7000 of these households. Orange and San Diego Counties lost millionaire households as well.

Milton Friedman?s maxim that few things are as mobile as rich people and capital, is proven starkly by data showing the wealthy are leaving California in record numbers. It is probably no coincidence that, while California has been punishing the successful for the sin of being rich, Maricopa County in neighboring Arizona gained 23,000 new millionaire households in the same time period. Arizona?s top marginal personal income tax rate is 4.79%, less than half California?s rate of 10.3%, which includes the Prop. 63 surcharge.

When California millionaires choose to become Florida or Nevada millionaires, the consequences to the state?s economy is profound. In California, the top 10% of earners pay nearly 75% of income taxes. If the trend of millionaire households relocating out of state continues, it will make finding the revenue to fund essential state services even more difficult.



Rofl! :laugh:

Might want to examine the other old maxim, that correlation is not causation. But that would be inconvenient, of course...

You tell me why the rich are fleeing California. Either way, the state is getting pwned.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: MadRat
When we tax the shit out of the rich the whole economy will suddenly right itself. Thirty years of tax breaks have busted the economy. At least with high tax rates everyone has to work their asses off to maintain their living standards, not just the middle class.

i have 2 groups of wealthy friends. one is an American couple whose family owns a bank or 2.

the other is Swedish cousins. they have race-horses, a house in Stockholm, a house in Switzerland, etc.

the first time i met the Swedish cousins, it was just real eye-opening. the mother & the daughter were so comfortable together. zero anxiety, not worrying about anything. it wasn't like being around normal human beings, it was like they were (very pretty) extra-terrestrials who spend all their lives doing yoga ... except, those cousins didn't do yoga at the time.

they just seemed to not worry about stuff the way wealthy Americans do sometimes.

all i can say is, paying high taxes isn't that bad, for some people.

i think it matters a lot if you feel your tax dollars are going to something important.

i also met Glenn Kawesch, a LASIK surgeon in San Diego who at the peak of his business was doing 65-70 procedures a day (@$3000 each). the IRS caught up with him, he was stupid enough to try & hide some of the income. then the news came out that he had died in a hotel in Mexico. given his age, i doubt that he died.

he also happened to have the distinction of having the most medical malpractice lawsuits of any LASIK surgeon in San Diego.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: MrMaster
Actually,

Cause I work with tax returns for business loans, I can tell you that there are TONS of ways to lower your tax rate.

I never saw anyone making over 100,000 have more than a 10% tax rate after deductions.

Deductions, deductions, deductions and especially business deductions. That is how the rich avoid paying very little in taxes.

Exactly. "business" deductions are the key and what lowers income down to nothing despite living large for many. Even if they question a specific deduction, which they have to do - get specific, there is no penalty generally other paying what they claim you owe making this system very abused for the self-employed.