1.8a and 4G4A problems pls help

[SaintGeorge]

Hi there guys, so i'm in San Francisco now and with the spare time i've had i've built my computer. But I need some help here and i'd really appreciate it if you could read my post and try and help me out.

I'm having some problems with overclocking and I need some help from you guys I may not reply too soon because i'm out a lot because of course im on vacation, but I always got a bit of time in the mornings and late evenings to fiddle with stuff.

I can't get my 1.8a even stable at 2.3 ghz even with 1.7 vcore. Its not my RAM thats holding me back i've got 256mb of goood mushkin that runs at cas 2 5-2-2 by default, its PC21000 and i'm running at 1:1 for now so I know its not what holding me back. But i was expecting to hit 2.4ghz pretty easy.

My temps arent great but they're not atrocious either. I've got a 30cmf case fan blowing through a duct that goes directly to the cpu, i've tested stuff and its takes about 3 or 4C off the temps. I've got the leftmost case side off so air flow is good out of the case, and the duct makes sure theres a constant flow of cold aire to the cpu. The CPU is about 29C idle at 1.8ghz, but at 2.4 its about 37C and about 47C under full load this is with the standard HSF. I'm using a Epox 4G4a with the bios that came with it already installed. I've applied artic silver 3 too and its a good application for sure.

I'm bummed about this, to be honest I expected to make 133mhz fsb, but its not even stable with 1.725 vcore or 1.75 even (just a quick test i'd never run at 1.75 permanently) my Epox undervolts slightly remember.

Should I get the latest bios? I saw some guy saying how he got a big boost from the new bios with his Epox board, but I cant find that post anywhere.

Is my cooling not sufficient? Should I have the case door on with the duct and some fans removing cold air too? TBH i don't think its my temps that are the problem, I need 1.65 to get it to boost a 2.4ghz and even then it rarely makes it and is very unstable. I'm using prime 95 as a stability tester and I couldnt get it stable even at 2.3ghz (128mhz fsb and 256DDR) even on 1.7 vcore.

The pack date was july I think and it was bought from newegg a couple of weeks ago.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated I mean it, if you've got any ideas pls post them.

Hope you guys can help me out as you have done before

Thanks, Mark

 

[ElFenix]

sounds like you got one of the ones that doesn't overclock.

 

[Yeti101]

May want to try a new BIOS, my friend had the same problem, then he got the 4/24 bios, and now he OC's his 1.8 to 2.53 rock-stable, try this page http://www.aoaforums.com/files/index.php?dir=189 and get the 4g4a2424.zip BIOS. If thous dont do it, its either the RAM, or as ElFenix said, It could just be your CPU...

Good luck!

Yeti

 

[DubSlick]

I have the same combo as you, 1.8A and 4g4a+, and I cannot go higher than 2.2Ghz (125 FSB) at 1.55 Vcore, and I even have to bump up Vagp to 1.6 (using built in 845G graphics) so that 3dMark2001 does not hang. I tried 2.34Ghz (130 FSB) and 1.725 Vcore, and would get errors in Prime95. Pack date for my cpu was 5/29, Costa Rica.

At first I was thinking the problem might be the 4g4a, but now I'm leaning more towards the 1.8A itself. There is a computer show at the Oakland Convention Center tomorrow, and I'm thinking about going over there to hand pick a 1.8A, hopefully something like a SL68Q and a July pack date. Good luck.

 

[Duvie]

please list...

1)power supply and specs...
2)voltages idle and load during prime95


Also I have found epox mobos to be the pickiest SOB's I have seen when it comes to memory....I don't care what default is drop memory to least aggressive settings and cas 2.5...may even bump vcore to 2.7v if 2.6v is default.


When does the cpu start needing more then default vcore or closest you can get to 1.5v with this undervolting biatch....I have one to so no flaming!!!


temps are very nice for an epox mobo that is known to report temps slightly higher then an asus mobo...


Use the lock agp/pci to 66/33 not the auto....

Try memory in second ddr slot if you haven't already...

Definitely get newest bios and I have heard some say updtae after 4/24 was worse and others say the opposite...Get the newest and save the older 4/24 and if it does worse go back otherwise try the newest always.

 

[SaintGeorge]

Thanks everyone I've tried several bios' and none of them have changed anything stability wise so im using the latest version again.

I'll try my memory in slot 2 and at different settings in a minute. I'm using speedfan to read my temps and voltages because MBM won't work and i have no idea why at all, the program won't even startup i'll try and download an older version in a bit maybe.

Alsi I can't boot up normally at more than 2.1ghz. Windows fails to initialise the Ndis or something its says which is to do with my network card. Its really odd even with the card not it its just won't boot at more than 2,1ghz so I have to run in safe mode and do my testing there thought, but that won't make any difference. Any suggestions as to why this is? I'm locking the AGP and PCI bus speeds btw.

Ok my volt readings are a bit strange, i'm using a 400w Skyhawk PSU by the way. All these readings are from speedfan and fluctuate slightly or a lot in some cases.

Idle at 1.8ghz:

VCore = 1.48v to 1.50v
+3.3v = 2.50v
+5v = 5.03v
+12 = from 11.8v to 12.3v
-12v = -11.87v
-5v = -5.15v
+5VSB = 5.38v
VBAT = 3.25v

100% load at 1.8ghz

VCore = 1.46v to 1.57v
+3.3v = 2.48v
+5v = 4.97v
+12 = 12.34v to 12.59v
-12v = -12.45v
-5v = -5.40v
+5VSB = 5.38v
VBAT = 3.28v

Any idea what this could indicate? If the +3.3v line is meant to be 3.3v then there something eriously wrong here... Also these readings vary constantly more than i thought, all readings which only have one value given are by no means stable all the values change constantly a little bit ok.

Thanks for your help everyone, especially you Duvie, I appreciate it really

Thanks, Mark


Update: Stable at 2.1ghz at 1.5 vcore and low DDR rating to make sure its not the RAM bottlenecking me. About 38C max under full load, this is with RAM in second slot and memory on its standard cas 2 6-2-2 timings. I'll see how far I can go at 1.5vcore and then see if the changing slot make a difference at 2.4ghz, then i'll try changing the RAM settings.... Stable I mean as in it does the first 30 prime 95 tests ok. At 2.4 or 2.3 it fails way before then normally so i'm not running for that long to start with. When i've got more time i'll test for longer. Hmm... Oh yeah and the pack date is may btw not july gah.

Update: Can't get it any higher at 1.5vcore than 2.1ghz, even 2.16ghz isn't stable and 2.2ghz fails a prime 95 test in about 3 seconds even with very slow memory timings. 2.4ghz isnt any different with the memory in the second slot and the timings very slow unfortunately. I'm starting to think I got a bum chip now which is really really pissing me off. Everyone else was getting july pack dates from newegg and I get a may one which doesn't seem to want to overclock much at all.

I don't know what im gonna do now, more advice would be very very gratefully received

Mark

 

[WarCon]

Does your northbridge heatsink have the Epox logo on it? The ones with the epox logo don't seem to overclock as well. If thats not it, I don't know. You sound like you have done everything.

It is a northwood?

 

[Pothead]

You seem to be doing everything right, looks like it's just the chip. I'm running a 1.8A on a Asus P4b533 @ 1.65V OCed rock solid at 2.23Ghz with Crucial pc2100 with 1:1 cpu mem ratio. I've hit 2.4 but it wasn't too stable.

 

[Duvie]

I am concerned about the severe swings in the vcore and in the +12v....

I don't usually see a vcore raise and raise .07v while loading....

At default

1.53v idle to 1.5v minimum on my rig....
at 2.736ghz

1.71v idle to 1.66v minimum..

Never do I see it go above 1.71v...ever...

My 12v swings do increase when loading....

11.84v idle and 12.04-12.10v during load...


lets definitely try to confirm this with another software program....Doesn't look right to me...




If you started to have to give this thing voltage back at 2.13ghz then this may be right. I have seen these things only go about 200mhz past highest speed attained with vcore at default....

 

[SaintGeorge]

Thanks there, im having a bit more luck. I managed to get it stable at 2.35ghz thismoring, well stable mean about an hour of prime testing. Thats at 1.725vcore but its never goes about 1.71 ever, though i've only seen it at 1.71v once, most of the time its at 1.66v or 1.68v sometimes maybe under load.

Kinda odd. Anyone know how to access the 4:5 divider on the Epox 4G4A, I heard its available but I can't find anything in the manual about it or with a few forums searches on anandtech.

At 2.35ghz its 47C no higher, (sometimes goes back down to 46C) under full load for a long time.

I'm going to buy a nice big fan today to go in my duct to the cpu, even with the puny fan íve got in there right now the duct seems to make quite a big difference.

Any suggestions on 20$ - 30$ heatsinks?

I don't know if I want to spend that money though, the systems already cost me a lot and I'm pretty sure its not the temps stoping me from ocing much further. 47C under load is pretty high but I dont 'honestly think its what stoping me from getting it stable at 2.4ghz.

Also any idea on how to solve the problem with the Ndis failing to initalise on a boot with over 2.1ghz. Also its not the vcore affecting it, if I boot at 2.2ghz with 1.5vcore it still fails and stops me booting.

If I can get that 4:5 divider so I can get my RAM at 300+ mhz i'll be happy at 2.35ghz I think.

Also i'll check my northbridge to see if it has the epox logo, I might set up a fan over it actually. Anyone know how easy it is the apply AS3 to a northbridge on an Epox 4G4A?

I truly appreciate everyones help

Thanks, Mark

 

[Duvie]

Don't waste the money on the fans and stuff...temps look great for an epox mobo...

I would look at testing an antec or enermax 350-400watt PS....


What were all the specs on the cpu??? Packing date? Version #??,etc...all the basics

 

[terminalmind]

Originally posted by: SaintGeorge

Kinda odd. Anyone know how to access the 4:5 divider on the Epox 4G4A, I heard its available but I can't find anything in the manual about it or with a few forums searches on anandtech.

Also i'll check my northbridge to see if it has the epox logo, I might set up a fan over it actually. Anyone know how easy it is the apply AS3 to a northbridge on an Epox 4G4A?

Remove the jumper from JP1 on the motherboard. Its to the left of the Northbridge heatsink. Then you will have the 4:5 mem ratio in the
bios.

Its real easy to apply AS3 to the Northbridge, just unclip, remove and apply. By the way, my board came with the Epox logo on the heatsink and I have had no problems overclocking mine unless you consider a 1.6A@2.56 160FSB a problem.

 

[tommyz2kool]

I bet its the motherboard. I had a 4g4a+ with a 1.6a that does 160fsb at default vcore and xms3200, and that pos 4g4a+ could only go to 140fsb max 4:5. using the 3:4 divider, it was unstable using any fsb 133+. I traded it in for a bg7 which I could get stable to 155fsb using 4:5. this is using the exact same components.

 

[SaintGeorge]

Ok here and update. I'm pretty sure now its my cooling thats the problem. I bought a Enermax 365w PSU from Fry's for $30 to try it out, the one i've got right now may be 400w but its a pretty no name brand. its made no difference. So then I decided to put all my 80 case fans on, using a cardboard side with holes in to mount them (with selotape lol) This has made a difference, I can now run Prime 95 for a couple of minutes instead of it failing instantly. And at 1.75vcore it runs for a lot longer, at least 25 tests (which is a lot compared to failing instantly on the first test.)

About the 4:5 divider, removing the JP1 jumper sets it at 133mhz fsb stright away so i'll have to up the voltage beforehand because there no way its gonna run at 133mhz fsb with 1.5vcore. I'll put some AS3 on the northbridge I think now. I'm gonna try and get a decent socket 478 cpu cooler now and see if it makes a difference, from a nearby store hopefully so I can return it easily, like im gonna have to with thie PSU from Fry's

I've got all my fans sucking air out except for one that shoots air in under the Graphics card and one that put air into the duct that goes right to the cpu. Theres a lot of air going out which sucks lots of cool air in through the duct which is good, my temps are a bit better.

Right, AS3 the northbridge and get a good cpu cooler are my last two options I think.

If none of the above work then I'm going to give up, and cry for a while lol

Mark

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: SaintGeorge
And at 1.75vcore it runs for a lot longer, at least 25 tests (which is a lot compared to failing instantly on the first test.)

Dude, pull back on the voltage, 1.75 is way too high, you could damage your chip.

 

[LastRide]

Yep,like CrazySaint says pull back on that voltage and don't go over 1.7V at idle.Some think 1.75 is safe but its definitly on the edge of danger zone.I would save your money and try another chip out with a newer pack date like the SL68Q 1.8a CPU or a 2.26a,2.53.With the price drops it makes it that much sweeter.Good cooling is important with case fans and good CPU heatsink and fan,but I think your wasting your time with your current CPU.My 1.6a is only good to around 2.3GHz stable at 1.71V.You can probably do a little better but its going to be such a small improvement that its not going to be worth it.Sell it and try another one.

 

[millsy]

Can anyone help me out

just installed 4G4A+ with P4 1.8A using onboard video, Antec SX635 case, Samsung 2x 256Mb PC2700 RAM.

When I turn it on, no screen appears and about 3secs later a constant beeping occurs. No code shows up on board atall.
So i tryed different CPU bus speed settings, different RAM slots, clearing BIOS - still occurs

i know the RAM is okay because it worked in my 8K7A board.

DO you think i have faulty board or chip??

i made sure the P4 was applied well using AS2 and left it 2 days.

Thanks for any help

 

[WarCon]

Did you get all the extra standoffs out? Try only one stick of memory in the middle slot?

Continuous Beeping: Memory or video problem

Explanation: The system is producing constant beeping in no specific pattern, or a fast "ringing" sound.

Diagnosis: This is usually caused by a problem with the system memory, or possibly the video card. The memory is more likely--the system complains long and loud if it can't find any usable memory, as there is no way to even start the boot process when this is the case. The motherboard itself could also be the problem. - www.pcguide.com

 

[millsy]

I have just tried using 1 stick in every slot
tried both sticks of RAM this way and still beeps

i am sure the RAM is okay as I tried in 8K7A board and it was working

 

[Duvie]

Saintgeorge, mauybe the clue of the cooling with side open is the chipset...Cause I have had much higher temps then yours and I still could oc to same limit I am at now...I do not see that being a factor...47c under load....I go over that now and look where I am at...I reach that back down at 2.4ghz levels...my system temps under load are usually 29c max.

The prime still fails and at 25 test trust me you are a long way from stability at that level...

 

[CBone]

The 4G4A is a crapshoot. It might be good. It might be crap. Or worse. Mine was what crap looks down at and thanks whatever gods crap prays to that it was born crap and not a 4G4A. If you aren't planning to overclock or think in the board's general direction too hard, it should be stable (with 1 stick ram). I jettisoned that POS and got an Albatron 845E pro 2. Same components that were gimpy at anything over 1.6/ddr266 are now running rock solid at 2.4/ddr400 for starters. When I get some free time, I'll see what it can really do.

cbone