1-25-05: 64bit < HT ?

[CaiNaM]

easily HT. that's why I am looking forward to dual core. besides, at this time 64b means absolutely nothing unless you have a 64b OS, which would then allow access to a larger memory pool.

until os & apps are std 64b, it's really only benefits marketing.

ht provides real benefits now, and dual core will provide them better (2 physical cores are better than 1 physical plus 1 logical)

 

[housecat]

yeah I dont know what im talking about. theres alot of posts here not even mentioning the actual technology just stating general comments on "64bit is the future" ect.

truth be told, a lot of people here dont even understand the technology when they are attempting to lecture me on it. ive done a ton of reading on this, like i said, remove the extra 8 registers and run 64bit.. see hwo much faster it is.

but you all dont get it.

its funny, someone is a "total noob" for not going along with all the dorks who use A64 and deem its 64bit qualities something supreme. enjoy your marchitechure, when your supposed to know this stuff.

how dare i step on the athlon 64's toes in any way! (and those who have deemed it god)

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: housecat
yeah I dont know what im talking about. theres alot of posts here not even mentioning the actual technology just stating general comments on "64bit is the future" ect.

truth be told, a lot of people here dont even understand the technology when they are attempting to lecture me on it. ive done a ton of reading on this, like i said, remove the extra 8 registers and run 64bit.. see hwo much faster it is.

but you all dont get it.

its funny, someone is a "total noob" for not going along with all the dorks who use A64 and deem its 64bit qualities something supreme. enjoy your marchitechure, when your supposed to know this stuff.

how dare i step on the athlon 64's toes in any way! (and those who have deemed it god)

I think it's obvious you don't fully understand the technology so I'll just leave it at that and let you have your fun.

By the way... you might like Tom's Hardware... he states his opinion as fact as well.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: housecat
yeah I dont know what im talking about. theres alot of posts here not even mentioning the actual technology just stating general comments on "64bit is the future" ect.

truth be told, a lot of people here dont even understand the technology when they are attempting to lecture me on it. ive done a ton of reading on this, like i said, remove the extra 8 registers and run 64bit.. see hwo much faster it is.

but you all dont get it.

its funny, someone is a "total noob" for not going along with all the dorks who use A64 and deem its 64bit qualities something supreme. enjoy your marchitechure, when your supposed to know this stuff.

how dare i step on the athlon 64's toes in any way! (and those who have deemed it god)

You've ask people for their reason, and they show it to you. Everything you've said so far is heresay. It's no better then any other AMD fanboys on the forum.

"I've read alot on this" doesn't mean crap to anyone. If you really want some creditbility, cite some reliable sources and prove the fanboys that they are wrong. Until then, you are no better than any AMD/Intel Fanboys.

That is the reason you get bash for being a fanboy/noob.

 

[housecat]

i already did prove you wrong. the speed improvement from 64bit has nothing to do with processing data in 64bits.

so how is 64bit useful?

i've been waiting.

i get bashed for fanboy/noob because theres alot of "enthusiasts" who are just ignorant and assume AMD is infallible.. when their stuff is NOT the end all of processing, truth be told. you need to get out of game benchmark graphs and take a look at some things that people do to actually make money with their computer.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: housecat
yeah I dont know what im talking about. theres alot of posts here not even mentioning the actual technology just stating general comments on "64bit is the future" ect.

truth be told, a lot of people here dont even understand the technology when they are attempting to lecture me on it. ive done a ton of reading on this, like i said, remove the extra 8 registers and run 64bit.. see hwo much faster it is.

but you all dont get it.

its funny, someone is a "total noob" for not going along with all the dorks who use A64 and deem its 64bit qualities something supreme. enjoy your marchitechure, when your supposed to know this stuff.

how dare i step on the athlon 64's toes in any way! (and those who have deemed it god)

I think it's obvious you don't fully understand the technology so I'll just leave it at that and let you have your fun.

By the way... you might like Tom's Hardware... he states his opinion as fact as well.

thanks for explaining how i dont "fully understand" the technology.

sounds like an elitist stance. I could not possibly fathom your vast knowledge on AMD64.
I must be wrong, as well as ignorant.


What an ass.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: housecat
i already did prove you wrong. the speed improvement from 64bit has nothing to do with processing data in 64bits.

so how is 64bit useful?

i've been waiting.

i get bashed for fanboy/noob because theres alot of "enthusiasts" who are just ignorant and assume AMD is infallible.. when their stuff is NOT the end all of processing, truth be told. you need to get out of game benchmark graphs and take a look at some things that people do to actually make money with their computer.

Once again, you came back with heresay.

"I already did prove you wrong"- what did you prove wrong? can you at least provide a link where you read your information?

Everything you type is your OPINION until you have credible SOURCES to back up what you said.- then, your opinion becomes fact (or at least, much more credible then AMD/A64 fanboys)

"the speed improvement from 64bit has nothing to do with processing data in 64bits." - again, you need to cite some sources, or else i can say the opposite and just be as credible as you are.

"you need to get out of game benchmark graphs and take a look at some things that people do to actually make money with their computer." - like what?

I would love to read what you've read about 64bit vs HT. Until then, your argurment is no better than anyone else.

 

[housecat]

Just because you dont believe me, doesnt mean what I'm saying is not correct. Its not "heresay" just because you dont know, or dont agree. Its like seeing a pre-renaissance scholar in disbelief the world isnt flat: "THIS CANNOT BE!"
AMD could never be wrong, it must be heresay! Burn him at the stake!

My source?
Well, I guess that would be http://arstechnica.com/index.ars

Spent many years reading it... where do you all get your education where "AMD CANNOT BE TOPPED"?
Out your ass. Reinforced by the group mentality that AMD has on most sites.

I expected such ignorant opposition. Its clear some here understand AMD64 technology, and HT.. but besides myself, most are astounded someone is challenging an AMD technology. "THIS CANNOT BE!"

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: 1stoff
it seems to me that the thread starter is either very misinformed, has not done any research, or is a total n00b

dont make statements that you know absolutely nothing about, also as to workstations needing HT, have you ever used a workstation, most to my knowledge are dualies, though two CPU's with HT are available i think but not as P4's

Well at least he has a grasp on what 64-bit technology really is and understands that it's not the processors "64-bitness" that makes it faster, but a combination of the on die memory controller, the extra GPR's, as well as some improvments to the pipeline and branch predictor and whatnot.

What I don't like about the poll is how he states his opinion as fact, and brings Windows into the discussion as a reason why 64-bit processors are worse than Hyper-Threading.

Why WOULDNT it be brought into the conversation?

Its the most used consumer OS in the world.

If XP64 cannot make it mainstream, how do you expect 64bit Linux to take this into households?




I get a kick out of people who think once XP64 we're actually goign to see appreciable gains from it and AMD64. Its laughable. And then getting the entire industry to concurrently develop 64bit and 32bit drivers.. when all the money is in whatever Dell has shipped/is shipping.

If Dell doesnt go to XP64 and all 64bit processors, nothings going to happen at all folks.

You are not as important as you think you are, sitting there with your 32bit processor with extensions.

 

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: housecat
Just because you dont believe me, doesnt mean what I'm saying is not correct. Its not "heresay" just because you dont know, or dont agree. Its like seeing a pre-renaissance scholar in disbelief the world isnt flat: "THIS CANNOT BE!"
AMD could never be wrong, it must be heresay! Burn him at the stake!

Spent many years reading it... where do you all get your education where "AMD CANNOT BE TOPPED"?
Out your ass. Reinforced by the group mentality that AMD has on most sites.

How can you believe anything anyone said in the forum without a credible source? Did i ever said you are not correct? Where did you get your education that opinion = fact?

I'm not attacking your knowledge in the field, I'm attacking your ability to reason these AMD fanboys. Don't talk to them, SHOW THEM (articles from that website u listed and such)

Did anyone said "AMD could never be wrong"? They simply putting their opinion to the line where they are in favor of A64 becasue of price/performance and they think that 64bits is the future because companies such as MS and Intel is adopting it.

Understand this, noone in the forum KNOWS who you are in real life, you words in the forum without any source is as good as any 13-years old. You might know more about 64bits than anyone in the forum, or you can be an IT expert, master degree in computer engineering...its all irrelevant because you are just a member when you come into the forum. And you are just as credible as I or any members.

 

[housecat]

And I"m not saying some of you clearly understand the technology. But its the multitudes of AMD fagboy fanboys that irk me. I prefer AMD, and they still irk me.

Since we're talkign real life, I'd like to bitch smack some.

Generally when it comes to sites like this one (or Ars), the Intel fanboys are actually usually the more educated ones. Thats just what I've seen..


on paper, I'm fascinated by the P4.. personally. In reality, the A64 pans out much better IMO. But that does not mean the P4 is irrelevanat, should be ignored and is somehow inferior. Becuase it is not, it is much better for different uses.

Workstations for instance (certain ones), and multitasking (dual monitor setup, market analyst/stock analyst).

And in this situation HT vs 64bit.. I just have yet to see much proof to debunk my words. I know its true, and no I'm not going to dig up all the articles. I gave you the source/site.

To counterbalance facts, facts must be introduced, what I was trying to say is that why should I dig up all these articles on this technology, to prove something that quite a few AMD fanboys know nothing about in teh first place?
The people who should be challenging my facts, are ones with counterfacts. I shouldnt be educating those with no knowledge on the subject.. just to erase their preexisting bias!

Thats not a discussion, thats education!

I'm merely askign those who already know about this stuff to tell me why I'm wrong. But seems like everyone appears to agree with me, but even those who understand teh tech (Jeffy) dont seem to want to admit that HT > 64bit support.

I like AMD as much as the next guy, but i absolutely hate their fanboys.. its one of the most fervent and irrational cults I've ever seen. As long as AMD continues to perform like they do, everything is hunky dorey.
The minute they dont, like when Northwood was at the top of its game.. its like "WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE? THIS CANNOT BE!"

sorry, I love that quote.

I'd like to see AMD gain market share, and a foothold instead of lose money every quarter. I'd hate to see them go. But nothing is quite as pleasurable as seeing these dedicated fanboys of AMD get their precious technology (which not all of it is as revolutionary as some might be assuming due to the hype) smashed.

I do not believe 64bit is any more evolutionary than HT.

Yes you heard right, evolutionary.
64bit is not revolutionary folks, I'm sorry to break it to you.

Now if IA64 had came to the desktop, concurrently fixing all the problems with x86.. we'd be much better off.
Instead we have this AMD64 garbage.

Ooops did I say that out loud.

My only bias is that a key founder to Intel was Robert Noyce (first CEO of Intel), who was born in the same town I was born in. Other than that historical fact that I like to read about, I could care less.
Its humorous watching amd fanboys squirm anytime anything is said that isnt exemplatory about their company. Its pathetic.

 

[KDKPSJ]

For now, definately, HT is better.

But for like 2 or 3 years later, 64bit will be absolutely better.

 

[devildog45co]

Dude, did someone piss in your cheerios this morning?

 

[dennisjai215]

Originally posted by: housecat
Just curious on peoples opinions on this.

Comparing the features individually, not accounting for the overall processors involved.. just 64bit support versus Hyperthreading.

Which one would you rather have, given the choice? As of 1/25/05.


My personal vote: Hyperthreading. I dont have Hyperthreading, but this is my personal preference. I'd trade 64bit on a A64 for HT, personally. As 64bit is virtually useless at this point, we dont know the future of it really, and HT has a much better display of speeding up TODAYS applications.. not tomorrows.


I'm sure 64bit will win the vote, because theres a ton of brand loyal AMD users here and they hate Intel and their hardware.. but in all honesty I believe this is a false conclusion, based on a false premise (because you happen to own one).

So the backing up of your decision is more important than just seeing the thread and voting.. as most of us know AMD64 "users" (even though they probably arent even using it right now) are clicking on 64bit.

Just my opinion, what is everyone elses?

SHUT UP INTEL FANBOY!

i could tell you are an intel fan by just readin the title of the thead
who the hell would compare 64bit to HT? they are a different class its like comparing
a geo metro to a bmw

im not an amd or intel fan


edit: dont try to make urself look like an AMD fan by saying I prefer AMD.. you are an intel fanboy.. just compare specs amd 3000+ > p4 3ghz, and its cheaper to buy amd and it has 64bit. HT doesnt do that much

 

[sandorski]

Hehe, oh God!

 

[mwmorph]

actually its completely different period. like comparing a x850xtpe to a accord hybrid.

 

[iversonyin]

What he's trying to do is to compare the technology itself (64bit and HT) without attaching it to any processor. But he is bad at expressing his own opinion.

And lets face it, who can think of 64bits processing without thinking of A64 and HT without P4.

 

[mwmorph]

yeah, but the tech is so different it's worthless comparing it.
i mena, i like sliced bread and i like cars but i sure as heck aren't gonna compare them 2.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
yeah, but the tech is so different it's worthless comparing it.
i mena, i like sliced bread and i like cars but i sure as heck aren't gonna compare them 2.

A car made of sliced bread would own!!

 

[mwmorph]

yeah, but drive throughs would go out of business i need my fatty supersized food!!!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
yeah, but drive throughs would go out of business i need my fatty supersized food!!!

Nah, they'll just sell things without the bun.

 

[housecat]

all it is really about is this: would you rather have 64bit or HT on your current processor.

if you have a AXP, choose between one of the two.
if you ahve A64, keep 64 or take HT instead.
if you have P4, keep HT or take 64 instead.


I'd take a A64, but give up 64bit anyday for HT. I think an A64 with HT would rape. On the other hand, a P4 with 64bit wouldnt be so woo-woo. It'd just be nice.

Not that there arent P4s with 64bit.. I'm just saying given the option to have any processor, and give or take one of the given options.

 

[miketheidiot]

I thought it siad hypertransport and not hyperthreading

 

[KDKPSJ]

Originally posted by: housecat
I think an A64 with HT would rape. On the other hand, a P4 with 64bit wouldnt be so woo-woo. It'd just be nice.

A64 with HT (Not HTT ) will never rape anyone. If A64 had HT, I think its performance would be worse than now, since A64 already uses its short pipe-line most of time anyway. With no idle pipe-line, HT is useless.

 

[1stoff]

Originally posted by: housecat
all it is really about is this: would you rather have 64bit or HT on your current processor.

if you have a AXP, choose between one of the two.
if you ahve A64, keep 64 or take HT instead.
if you have P4, keep HT or take 64 instead.


I'd take a A64, but give up 64bit anyday for HT. I think an A64 with HT would rape. On the other hand, a P4 with 64bit wouldnt be so woo-woo. It'd just be nice.

Not that there arent P4s with 64bit.. I'm just saying given the option to have any processor, and give or take one of the given options.

by your own words 64bit OS is not available as yet (you seem to conveniently forget Linux) so how can anyone honestly compare the two then make a choice

if you are comparing hardware then it is a fact that the A64 is ahead of the P4 in nearly every benchmark. if you compare 64bit to HT then there is no comparison, HT is a feature that "helps" the very poor P4 architechture that is specifically designed to ramp/scale MHz as dictated by the marketing /pr department of intel, 64bit is a totally different animal that cannot be compared, but when it is fully adopted, as was 8bit to 16bit, then to 32bit (can you remember that far back??, i can) then it will be awesome