Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[[DHT]Osiris]

Unfortunately, we don't have the best record"finishing" fights lately...

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...

Historically speaking, fights are rarely 'won'. Christ, we still have nazis running around, and that fight ended with nukes flying.

 

[rommelrommel]

LOL, No. It would only speed up a nuclear exchange... BOOM.

I disagree. If the cost of invading Ukraine was nukes being launched at Moscow, Ukraine wouldn’t be invaded as a nuclear exchange is an irrational price to pay.

 

[BoomerD]

Historically speaking, fights are rarely 'won'. Christ, we still have nazis running around, and that fight ended with nukes flying.

LOL...No...nukes had nothing to do with Nazi Germany. That was Japan...as bad as, or worse than the Nazis.

 

[Jaskalas]

But maybe they decide to join NATO after invasion is repelled... If there is no invasion threat, then they don't need to be in NATO...

Ukraine has been moving towards NATO since Russia seized its land in 2014 and setup an armed rebellion.
Russia complains of a border moving closer, and they are EVER the ones who moved it.
At some point we have to stand up and hold the line. No matter the cost, Europe is not a snack to be feasted upon. Its people are not to be freely slaughtered. There MUST be a cost. In blood.

 

[weblooker2021]

I disagree. If the cost of invading Ukraine was nukes being launched at Moscow, Ukraine wouldn’t be invaded as a nuclear exchange is an irrational price to pay.

I would not be so sure as everyone well aware that once nuclear war start , it will end with destruction with humanity as we know it today.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

LOL...No...nukes had nothing to do with Nazi Germany. That was Japan...as bad as, or worse than the Nazis.

I'm aware of that, I was speaking of WW2 as a whole. My point still stands, the 'enemy' doesn't go away with the way we fight wars.

 

[iRONic]

Historically speaking, fights are rarely 'won'. Christ, we still have nazis running around, and that fight ended with nukes flying.

Who wrote the history of which you speak...?

Edit: just saw your reply.

 

[gothuevos]

Ukraine has been moving towards NATO since Russia seized its land in 2014 and setup an armed rebellion.
Russia complains of a border moving closer, and they are EVER the ones who moved it.
At some point we have to stand up and hold the line. No matter the cost, Europe is not a snack to be feasted upon. Its people are not to be freely slaughtered. There MUST be a cost. In blood.

Is this satire? What happened to you?

 

[HomerJS]

How soon after the invasion do Republicans start siding with Putin? I give it a week

 

[hal2kilo]

The US and UK (along with Russia) guaranteed their territorial integrity for giving up their nuclear weapons, so it is the US’s problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

The most serious consequence I’ve heard bandied about is to disconnect Russia from the Swift banking system.

Also, some more advanced anti-tank and anti-air weaponry could be transferred making it even more costly for Russia in terms of blood and treasure.

What should happen is full admittance into NATO.

But, yesterday I thought I heard that anti-tank weapons are being supplied to the Ukraine now. Well at least this link says its the UK.

UK gives Ukraine anti-tank weapons as Canada sends special forces | Military News | Al Jazeera

 

[hal2kilo]

Unfortunately, we don't have the best record"finishing" fights lately...

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...

What's your definition of finish, and success. Maybe Korea, but the others? How many more....

 

[kage69]

How soon after the invasion do Republicans start siding with Putin? I give it a week

They already did that years ago. On this latest issue of (re)invasion, Tucker Carlson King of All Karens has also assured his audience that Putin is just trying to secure his western border. The real issue is the war hunger by Biden and his socialist pals in the EU. Putin, with the overwhelming military advantage over Ukraine and who doesn't want to be "surrounded" by NATO (at 6% of his borders), is the real victim here.

Yeah, the West had some nerve to pretend like the Soviet Union didn't collapse when it actually did, and certain countries wanting freedom and more economic opportunity is anti Russian hysteria.

I expect the GQP traitors to cheerlead Putin's war the minute the shooting starts. Sometime February is my bet.

 

[fskimospy]

I disagree. If the cost of invading Ukraine was nukes being launched at Moscow, Ukraine wouldn’t be invaded as a nuclear exchange is an irrational price to pay.

This just devolves into a game of chicken where both sides need to signal ever more aggressively that they really are insane enough to risk nuclear war over Ukraine, something neither side would take as a credible threat at the outset.

 

[dank69]

... Nuclear war will set humanity back 100-200 years.

Republicans and Libertarians are perfectly capable of that without resorting to nukes.

 

[interchange]

I don't like all the posturing. We have no obligation to protect Ukraine from invasion. I would only want us to get directly involved if this was a coordinated involvement with our allies. Russia and China are starting to test limits. We need to decide quickly where the limits are and expect them to be violated and meet them with the action we have promised should they be violated.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I don't like all the posturing. We have no obligation to protect Ukraine from invasion. I would only want us to get directly involved if this was a coordinated involvement with our allies. Russia and China are starting to test limits. We need to decide quickly where the limits are and expect them to be violated and meet them with the action we have promised should they be violated.

I am glad you are here general. Don't know what we would do without you.

 

[UNCjigga]

Russia shouldn't be allowed get away with an invasion scot free but outright war with Russia will end up thermonuclear.

I'd say some time around 1991, the US stopped waging wars to achieve geopolitical aims and further Democracy through the use of force--instead war turned into "how can I make my friends and I rich?"

If you measure US military success in terms of the latter goal, we've done quite well since Vietnam.

 

[interchange]

I am glad you are here general. Don't know what we would do without you.

Fall in line, private.

 

[rommelrommel]

I would not be so sure as everyone well aware that once nuclear war start , it will end with destruction with humanity as we know it today.

So why start one? Nuclear armed powers have yet to ever go to war against each other.

 

[feralkid]

Ukraine has been moving towards NATO since Russia seized its land in 2014 and setup an armed rebellion.
Russia complains of a border moving closer, and they are EVER the ones who moved it.
At some point we have to stand up and hold the line. No matter the cost, Europe is not a snack to be feasted upon. Its people are not to be freely slaughtered. There MUST be a cost. In blood.

Rowee!

 

[Ajay]

But, yesterday I thought I heard that anti-tank weapons are being supplied to the Ukraine now. Well at least this link says its the UK.

UK gives Ukraine anti-tank weapons as Canada sends special forces | Military News | Al Jazeera

I heard that on the news as well. We've up our military aid to the Ukraine from ~60M in 2014 to 400M for 2022 (and increased the amount of lethal aid). It's not nearly enough given the capabilities of their adversary. Sadly, the Ukrainian government is weak, in a state of some disarray and has a bad habit of making aid $$s 'disappear'. They have a decent number of soldiers, but they are generally poorly trained and equipped, though a fair number are now veterans of the eastern conflict around the Donetsk Oblast and other eastern Oblasts.



Personally, I think it is in our interests for the Ukraine to remain neutral, though they should participate in the EU to some degree for trade reasons. We retain the right to allow the Ukraine to join NATO to keep the pressure on Russia - but that's not working very well with Putin, who want the restoration of a Warsaw pack like westward buffer and an extension of the sphere of influence.

I'm surprised that the US hasn't made more public forward deployments to our bases in Europe. We have sent 48 F-35s to the UK. Perhaps there have been additional realignments of forces that the administration is holding close to their vests for now. Annoyingly, the only way to play this game is to ratchet up the pressure while pursuing a diplomatic solutions.

Germany's freak-out over nuclear power, subsequent rapid shutdown and sudden shift toward coal and natural gas was an enormous cockup. Now they need even more gas to replace the nuclear power and coal. That really limits their abilities to contribute pressure on Moscow. France is stepping up, at least with rhetorically. They had in mind a review of the EU's strategic defense posture since they took over as the temporary head of the European Union - maybe this will actually be a catalyst for change.

It's a mess, Putin just can't leave well enough alone. He considers the breakup of the USSR the greatest disaster of the 20th century (let's all just forget about WWII). He's a well motivated psychopath. I just hope this doesn't end in a land war in Europe - again (and again, and again....).

 

[woolfe9998]

Biden just said at his presser that he thinks Russia is going to invade Ukraine, but unclear if it will be a small incursion or full scale invasion.

Biden predicts Russia 'will move in' to Ukraine, but says 'minor incursion' may prompt discussion over consequences

President Joe Biden on Wednesday predicted Russia "will move in" to Ukraine, citing existential concerns by the country's president, Vladimir Putin, even as he acknowledged disunity within NATO over how to respond to a "minor incursion."

www.cnn.com

Given the information that Biden has, if he thinks Russia will invade, then they probably will and that is not good.

 

[woolfe9998]

It's a mess, Putin just can't leave well enough alone. He considers the breakup of the USSR the greatest disaster of the 20th century (let's all just forget about WWII). He's a well motivated psychopath. I just hope this doesn't end in a land war in Europe - again (and again, and again....).

Kind of funny that the American right, who used to be fond of crediting Reagan for the breakup of the USSR, now supports the dictator who wants to restore it.

 

[K1052]

Kind of funny that the American right, who used to be fond of crediting Reagan for the breakup of the USSR, now supports the dictator who wants to restore it.

Putin is probably against CRT so *checks notes* the reconstitution of the Russian empire by force is a legitimate policy goal. The right has strongman envy. Even if they are simply lords in their own shittier and poorer countries they lust for that same level of power and would not think twice about reducing America to that level in order to obtain it.

 

[UNCjigga]

Biden just said at his presser that he thinks Russia is going to invade Ukraine, but unclear if it will be a small incursion or full scale invasion.

Biden predicts Russia 'will move in' to Ukraine, but says 'minor incursion' may prompt discussion over consequences

President Joe Biden on Wednesday predicted Russia "will move in" to Ukraine, citing existential concerns by the country's president, Vladimir Putin, even as he acknowledged disunity within NATO over how to respond to a "minor incursion."

www.cnn.com

Given the information that Biden has, if he thinks Russia will invade, then they probably will and that is not good.

Just came to post this--invasion imminent in the next few weeks. Though some are saying the timing is off--a full scale invasion would make more sense after spring thaw. Russia may be trying to work in some concessions before partially retreating...and then come back to the brink again?