2019 Toy Sienna

[bradly1101]

I use a minivan cuz manual wheelchair ass/disassembly works so well at a sliding door. I had a '17 and liked it a lot. It could have handled better and felt a little less heavy, but as a minivan it was one sweet ride even in its lowest ($29K) trim cuz it still has everything except the little, annoying, slow motors that power seats and doors, leather (never liked it in a car), or dangerous roof glass. Otherwise it's the same car (an RX350 in heavy, much more versatile disguise @ 296HP).

But it had no 'Safety Sense' suite of sensors and interventions. Living in a city can be weird as cars, peds., skateboarders, bicyclists, and jugglers seem to ignore logic and, without looking, end up in my path. The city I moved back to in July is unbelievable in this.

So 2019 Sienna with pedestrian detection radar...

Since '17 Siennas have been available with a seat for more heavily disabled people than I:


But this two-year newer van on a platform that began in 2011 (something Mercedes used to do instead of 'all new' to satisfy the ignorant, just improve the good thing) is much more than increased safety. No more pretty heavy lean in corners, it stays flat somehow. The somewhat heavy feel is gone. The ride is even more comfortable and more poised. The sliding rear doors open a good half-foot wider, and the legroom in the second row can now accommodate a full-grown giraffe instead of just an adolescent one. The Entune 3.0 app.-happy computer (maps, Alexa, Gracenote, iHeart, ...) has a very intuitive interface, the old was more basic.

The 3.5 V6 will switch to port injection for valve cleaning and intense driving, and it'll switch-up cycles (Otto/Atkinson) for the best economy while giving you 296HP through eight gears.

In conclusion, the 2019 Sienna is (IMO) the best available grand tourer for seven, eight, or four big knuckleheads on a roadtrip to Yosemite.

 

[rh71]

Glad you like it but when I test drove the '18 Sienna vs. the '18 Odyssey for my parents, it was no comparison. I did the Sienna drive before ever stepping foot in the Odyssey so I had no expectations. The Sienna was nothing special at all. The interior looked dated from the get-go (shifter, instrument cluster, vents, door handles, sliding doors, etc.) and the drive was weak and subdued. Down the street, conveniently, was the Honda dealer and at the same trim level, the impression upon driving that thing was immediate. My only thought became "how could anyone choose the Sienna over this Honda?" From the engine (despite lower HP/torque spec - how about that?) to the interior, there was not a single category the Sienna won other than price. The Sienna was maybe $2k-$3k less but on a $30k+ car, it was a no-brainer. My parents ultimately bumped up to mid-tier at $44k and even if they had chosen the same tier Sienna, they wouldn't have gotten close to what the Odyssey offers all-around.

I'm glad Toyota did something to improve the '19 from what it sounds like, because they should've had their asses handed to them for the prior year(s) by Honda. And I'm guessing it's not just in the minivan category. That's how inferior I feel Toyota was based on that back-to-back comparison. BTW, the '18 Sienna did have the safety features similar to the Honda Sense even in the base model.

 

[bradly1101]

Yes, 1st impressions are all that seem to count anymore. Have you compared reliability? Does Honda still use the ZF-9?

 

[bradly1101]

Sorry, damn Tapatalk, I turned that off!

 

[Samus]

I rented a 2018 Sienna last summer for a trip with the kids and my first impression was "this thing has no business being this fast"

After looking it up, it has the same 300+ HP V6 from the Highlander (which weighs 800lbs more) so empty, the Sienna is kind of ridiculous, reminding you how much capacity it actually has to haul weight.

I test drove a Honda Odyssey this summer while taking my mother to shop for cars (she ended up with an Accord EX 1.5T - the Camry throttle response was terrible...my mothers words!) and the Odyssey was superior to the Sienna in almost every way. The seats were more comfortable and more configurable, the interior was better, the infotainment was much better than Toyota's Entune, and it drove and handled better. It drove more like a car compared to the Sienna which did feel really large.

There are two reasons I didn't end up with the Odyssey (yet) and they are price (the Elite is 50k and lets face it you want everything in one of these things) and the transmission.

I don't know why Honda has so much faith in ZF. They make terrible automatic transmissions. They have for decades and are just now finally moving away. And every Honda with a ZF transmission has a bad record of reliability. However, the 2017+ Odyssey has a 10-speed Honda transmission manufactured and engineered by Honda (and built in the USA, too, since this is the only market that particular 10-speed is sold on.) This is slightly more comforting, but Honda does NOT have a perfect track record of manufacturing their own automatics, although there CVT's have demonstrated steadily increasing reliability over each previous generation.

Part of the problem is Honda automatics (by which I mean torque-converter slush boxes) have had to be designed unconventionally due to Borg Warner refusing to license patents\Honda refusing to license (depends who you ask) and in Japan, Aisin (who manufactures most of the Japanese auto industry's automatic transmissions, in particular Toyota and to some extent even Mazda) hold most of the patents for conventional automatic transmission design. There are only so many ways to create a planetary gearset without infringing on patents. This is why Volkswagen (and to some extent Ford) has invested so much in DSG transmissions and companies like Nissan have almost entirely abandoned automatics in favor of their in-house CVT's for completely vertical integration across every model of car they sell. Where Nissan needs a strong slushbox, they rely on their partner Renault or Mercedes Benz\Magna, especially for their Infiniti line of vehicles)

Time will have to tell if Honda's newest automatics are long term reliable. You are covered for 5 years under warranty, and since they are conventional slush boxes a rebuild wont be too expensive (probably $3000 done right) but its unfortunate that it seems Mazda is currently making the best automatics in the industry right now, being able to implement variations of the FW6A-EL across virtually every vehicle they sell (minus the MX-5 automatic) with unprecedented reliability and efficiency. It is rumored they licensed some patents from Aisin (which isn't hard to believe since Toyota took a minority stake in Mazda recently, and Toyota effectively owned Aisin in the same way they effectively 'own' Denso) who has been a close partner of theirs in other manufacturing for 70+ years. But that Mazda was able to achieve what they did with the FW6A is remarkable.

It's just a damn shame Mazda doesn't make a Minivan.

 

[rh71]

Mazda had the MPV which my dad owned before this Odyssey. They also had the mini minivan the Mazda 5 which we only looked at but never drove - just too small. Anyway the MPV felt pretty barebones, from the drive to the amenities to the quality of the interior. About what you'd expect for about $22k back in the 2000s. Stick with the Odyssey if you can afford it. The Pacifica is also supposed to be a good option, but... Chrysler.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

See, that's funny - the Mazda 5 looks just about perfect to me; if I had >2 children I'd buy one in a heartbeat over something bigger.

 

[Demo24]

I drive a base '18 at work which is huge upgrade to the '05 I had. I agree with most of what you said, but I'd say it definitely feels heavy. I actually kind of like that feeling as it feels really planted on the road. However, it doesn't feel at all like it has 300hp. Only occasionally will it feel fast to me, usually upper power band slower speeds, but it really loses out at passing speeds. Oddly the old generation felt faster, whereas this one is more content to smoothly get to speed.

It is quite comfortable though with a decently quiet interior and good adjustability in the driver's seat. I'm in love with the radar cruise control. And although it lacks Android auto the Bluetooth connects really fast and works very well. I'm surprised at how decent the base speakers are.

Overall I quite like it, but I hope Toyota puts it on a new platform soon cause it's getting old.

 

[bigi]

Test drove 2018 Ody and Sienna. Sienna won in every category imaginable. Apparently, it is due for a 2020 update along with the Highlander.

 

[evident]

That thing needs a FMC on the new global toyota platform fast. I wish they would sell the toyota alphard/vellfire twins here in the US. I drive them as rentals in japan all the time and they are awesome vans.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

See, that's funny - the Mazda 5 looks just about perfect to me; if I had >2 children I'd buy one in a heartbeat over something bigger.

I don't even have kids, but I really liked that Mazda5. I even went shopping for one, but they had no intentions of moving it to a modern platform, which was too bad. A Mazda5 built on this platform, especially with AWD, would be a pretty easy sell for me. I love the flexibility of mini-minivans.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I don't even have kids, but I really liked that Mazda5. I even went shopping for one, but they had no intentions of moving it to a modern platform, which was too bad. A Mazda5 built on this platform, especially with AWD, would be a pretty easy sell for me. I love the flexibility of mini-minivans.

Last time I was in Europe, the hotel shuttle was a Ford Galaxy, I was kind of in love.

I'd really like something like the B-Max, though, with no B-pillar. It'd never meet collision test requirements here though. :-(

 

[rstrohkirch]

I don't know why Honda has so much faith in ZF. They make terrible automatic transmissions. They have for decades and are just now finally moving away. And every Honda with a ZF transmission has a bad record of reliability

I'm confused. First, their 6,7 and 8 speed transmissions are used in a PILE of sports cars and high performance vehicles. Everything from Aston Martins, Rolls-Royce, Dodge's 700-800hp monsters, to high end Audi, Bmw, Jag, Porsche etc. To say that their transmissions are junk perplexes me. Second, I can't find a single Honda vehicle listed on any of their 6, 7 or 8 speed transmissions. The only transmission I can find a Honda listed on is that crappy ecobox 9 speed they make which has only been around since 2012 and that Honda started using in 2015ish.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I'm confused. First, their 6,7 and 8 speed transmissions are used in a PILE of sports cars and high performance vehicles. Everything from Aston Martins, Rolls-Royce, Dodge's 700-800hp monsters, to high end Audi, Bmw, Jag, Porsche etc. To say that their transmissions are junk perplexes me. Second, I can't find a single Honda vehicle listed on any of their 6, 7 or 8 speed transmissions. The only transmission I can find a Honda listed on is that crappy ecobox 9 speed they make which has only been around since 2012 and that Honda started using in 2015ish.

...and then immediately stopped using in favor of an internally designed 10-speed.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Last time I was in Europe, the hotel shuttle was a Ford Galaxy, I was kind of in love.

I'd really like something like the B-Max, though, with no B-pillar. It'd never meet collision test requirements here though. :-(

I would buy a Galaxy in a heartbeat right off the lot. 2.0L 180HP / 300 ft. lb. Diesel, 6 speed manual, and AWD? Gimme!

 

[bradly1101]

Yeah, a van is a great hauler, and I don't know about the '18 Sienna, but the '19 feels very happy to push. The most fun road around here is fun to carve in this thing. I like Toyotas cuz reliability. One lasted well to 24 yrs., which is meaningless to most who like to buy more often.

I rented a 2018 Sienna last summer for a trip with the kids and my first impression was "this thing has no business being this fast"

After looking it up, it has the same 300+ HP V6 from the Highlander (which weighs 800lbs more) so empty, the Sienna is kind of ridiculous, reminding you how much capacity it actually has to haul weight.

I test drove a Honda Odyssey this summer while taking my mother to shop for cars (she ended up with an Accord EX 1.5T - the Camry throttle response was terrible...my mothers words!) and the Odyssey was superior to the Sienna in almost every way. The seats were more comfortable and more configurable, the interior was better, the infotainment was much better than Toyota's Entune, and it drove and handled better. It drove more like a car compared to the Sienna which did feel really large.

There are two reasons I didn't end up with the Odyssey (yet) and they are price (the Elite is 50k and lets face it you want everything in one of these things) and the transmission.

I don't know why Honda has so much faith in ZF. They make terrible automatic transmissions. They have for decades and are just now finally moving away. And every Honda with a ZF transmission has a bad record of reliability. However, the 2017+ Odyssey has a 10-speed Honda transmission manufactured and engineered by Honda (and built in the USA, too, since this is the only market that particular 10-speed is sold on.) This is slightly more comforting, but Honda does NOT have a perfect track record of manufacturing their own automatics, although there CVT's have demonstrated steadily increasing reliability over each previous generation.

Part of the problem is Honda automatics (by which I mean torque-converter slush boxes) have had to be designed unconventionally due to Borg Warner refusing to license patents\Honda refusing to license (depends who you ask) and in Japan, Aisin (who manufactures most of the Japanese auto industry's automatic transmissions, in particular Toyota and to some extent even Mazda) hold most of the patents for conventional automatic transmission design. There are only so many ways to create a planetary gearset without infringing on patents. This is why Volkswagen (and to some extent Ford) has invested so much in DSG transmissions and companies like Nissan have almost entirely abandoned automatics in favor of their in-house CVT's for completely vertical integration across every model of car they sell. Where Nissan needs a strong slushbox, they rely on their partner Renault or Mercedes Benz\Magna, especially for their Infiniti line of vehicles)

Time will have to tell if Honda's newest automatics are long term reliable. You are covered for 5 years under warranty, and since they are conventional slush boxes a rebuild wont be too expensive (probably $3000 done right) but its unfortunate that it seems Mazda is currently making the best automatics in the industry right now, being able to implement variations of the FW6A-EL across virtually every vehicle they sell (minus the MX-5 automatic) with unprecedented reliability and efficiency. It is rumored they licensed some patents from Aisin (which isn't hard to believe since Toyota took a minority stake in Mazda recently, and Toyota effectively owned Aisin in the same way they effectively 'own' Denso) who has been a close partner of theirs in other manufacturing for 70+ years. But that Mazda was able to achieve what they did with the FW6A is remarkable.

It's just a damn shame Mazda doesn't make a Minivan.

[edit: damn Tapatalk again!]

 

[bradly1101]

I like it when they improve a very good platform. I think the '19 must have some suspension improvements.

But yeah, the base has the full-on Entune 3.0 'puter, Alexa in the car is pretty wild, and yes, I have no desire to upgrade the speakers.

I drive a base '18 at work which is huge upgrade to the '05 I had. I agree with most of what you said, but I'd say it definitely feels heavy. I actually kind of like that feeling as it feels really planted on the road. However, it doesn't feel at all like it has 300hp. Only occasionally will it feel fast to me, usually upper power band slower speeds, but it really loses out at passing speeds. Oddly the old generation felt faster, whereas this one is more content to smoothly get to speed.

It is quite comfortable though with a decently quiet interior and good adjustability in the driver's seat. I'm in love with the radar cruise control. And although it lacks Android auto the Bluetooth connects really fast and works very well. I'm surprised at how decent the base speakers are.

Overall I quite like it, but I hope Toyota puts it on a new platform soon cause it's getting old.

[edit: damn Tapatalk again!]

 

[bradly1101]

It's just nice, and the whole car was lifted from the RX-350 or vice versa, except it's much more versatile. Perhaps the only car Consumer reports says the second row is even more comfy than the super-comfy front.

Test drove 2018 Ody and Sienna. Sienna won in every category imaginable. Apparently, it is due for a 2020 update along with the Highlander.

[edit: damn Tapatalk again!]

 

[bradly1101]

Yeah, and the amenities? Over there you can get the smaller hybrid Estima, would be perfect for me.

That thing needs a FMC on the new global toyota platform fast. I wish they would sell the toyota alphard/vellfire twins here in the US. I drive them as rentals in japan all the time and they are awesome vans.

[edit: damn Tapatalk again!]

 

[bradly1101]

http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/z...gue-jeep-fiat-land-rover-honda-acura-drivers/

I'm confused. First, their 6,7 and 8 speed transmissions are used in a PILE of sports cars and high performance vehicles. Everything from Aston Martins, Rolls-Royce, Dodge's 700-800hp monsters, to high end Audi, Bmw, Jag, Porsche etc. To say that their transmissions are junk perplexes me. Second, I can't find a single Honda vehicle listed on any of their 6, 7 or 8 speed transmissions. The only transmission I can find a Honda listed on is that crappy ecobox 9 speed they make which has only been around since 2012 and that Honda started using in 2015ish.

[edit: damn Tapatalk again!]

 

[rstrohkirch]

http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/z...gue-jeep-fiat-land-rover-honda-acura-drivers/

[edit: damn Tapatalk again!]

You said they make terrible automatic transmissions and have for decades. Everyone knows that their 9 speed is a pile and it's only been around 5 or 6 years. My only reason for quoting you is because you made it sound like they're been making shitty transmissions for 10s of years. Yet as far as I know, they've made 1 shitty transmission out of quite a few over many years used in many high end vehicles. Using the same analogy, Toyota makes shitty cars and has for decades. That was my only grievance.