Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[poke01]

In 2018 I never expected Intel CPUs to use 330 watts. Never. If anything I thought we would stay at 150 watts. No Intel did not manage that nor did AMD. I guess I was foolish.

Think datacentre and mobile that is what Intel needs to focus on and efficiency matters there. As I said pumping up power is easy to eek out a % more the competition but all it really shows is that your product is not great. I don't believe Alder Lake was a innovation or a breakthrough. It was not focused on efficiency that mattered in a laptop or a datacentre.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Then where is the limit?

The limit is whatever people will buy.

 

[Kocicak]

.... Raptor lake is not efficient. ...

It can be very efficient, when its power consumption is capped. See the multithread ranking here:

Discussion - PES | Assessing Power and Performance Efficiency of x86 CPU architectures

Dear Community, so this is my first thread here as a long-time lurker - but I felt the desire to share a small hobby-project of mine from the last couple of months with you... Performance Efficiency Suite - What is it about? Most Reviewers solely focus on what they consider to be the most...

forums.anandtech.com

At 160W, nearly the same power limit you spoke about, it is extremelly efficient.

 

[lobz]

It can be very efficient, when its power consumption is capped. See the multithread ranking here:

Discussion - PES | Assessing Power and Performance Efficiency of x86 CPU architectures

Dear Community, so this is my first thread here as a long-time lurker - but I felt the desire to share a small hobby-project of mine from the last couple of months with you... Performance Efficiency Suite - What is it about? Most Reviewers solely focus on what they consider to be the most...

forums.anandtech.com

At 160W, nearly the same power limit you spoke about, it is extremelly efficient.

Compared to what exactly? Because Zen4 gains even more efficiency, when you're going down the curve.

Of course, you could call practically everything extremely efficient, compared to its stock behavior.

 

[poke01]

It can be very efficient, when its power consumption is capped. See the multithread ranking here:

Discussion - PES | Assessing Power and Performance Efficiency of x86 CPU architectures

Dear Community, so this is my first thread here as a long-time lurker - but I felt the desire to share a small hobby-project of mine from the last couple of months with you... Performance Efficiency Suite - What is it about? Most Reviewers solely focus on what they consider to be the most...

forums.anandtech.com

At 160W, nearly the same power limit you spoke about, it is extremelly efficient.

Yes but you won't get the majority of the performance unless you to use 250 watts. That is not efficient.

Capping power effects single core too. We will see the true test in laptops early to mid next year with Raptor and Zen4 laptops.
Intel is truly beind in efficiency don't let Intel fool you, it won't be until 2025 reaches best pref/w well according to Intel anyway

Please I don't mean to discourage you. I love your testing of the 13900K. But as you know your computer nearly got damaged due to the "unlimited power" setting. Well I 100% assure you that Intel would never have created that option if it could achieve 330 watts performance at 150 watts.

The limit is whatever people will buy.

People buy many things but just because they do does not mean it's the right choice.

 

[Kocicak]

People buy and do all sorts of stupid and dangerous things.

Companies should be more responsible and not sell the product at a ridiculous and dangerous setting just to be able to top the charts.



I quickly cut the irrelevant low power part of the table off. Even at 250W it performs as high as 7950X. I will run my CPU capped at 180W, that is what my air cooler can handle. I am now playing with 13600K and 13700K, not sure which one I will keep.

 

[poke01]

People buy and do all sorts of stupid and dangerous things.

Companies should be more responsible and not sell the product at a ridiculous and dangerous setting just to be able to top the charts.

View attachment 69942

I quickly cut the irrelevant low power part of the table off. Even at 250 watts it performs as high as 7950X. I will run my CPU capped at 180W, that is what my air cooler can handle. I am now playing with 13600K and 13700K, not sure which one I will keep.

IMO, keep the 13600K because this is a dead platform and it's always good to have some extra money in your bank account. Also I think the big changes are coming soon with Arrow Lake. So the i5 13600k will get replaced in 2-3 years as you I believe are an enthusiast.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Even at 250W it performs as high as 7950X.

If that were true, there would be no boards out there with power limits removed.

 

[Heartbreaker]

If that were true, there would be no boards out there with power limits removed.

One has nothing to do with the other. High end MBs with no power limits have been the norm for MANY years, regardless of the level of CPU competitiveness.

 

[Carfax83]

I will run my CPU capped at 180W, that is what my air cooler can handle. I am now playing with 13600K and 13700K, not sure which one I will keep.

What cooler are you using?

 

[Carfax83]

Hey, this is an enthusiast forum but we to draw a line. Intel using 350 w is not not good. Next year might be 450 watts. Then where is the limit?

You're acting as though the power limit is immutable. It can easily be configured to whatever you want it to be.

If we couldn't change it, I would agree with you.

 

[DrMrLordX]

High end MBs with no power limits have been the norm for MANY years, regardless of the level of CPU competitiveness.

Actually they started back with the 9900k. Imagine that.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Actually they started back with the 9900k. Imagine that.

Still has nothing to do with a specific Intel CPU vs specific AMD CPU.

MB makers are the ones that decided to remove the limits, as they compete with each other for bragging rights, Intel specifies limits but does not enforce them.

 

[Harry_Wild]

Waiting for the 65W Raptor Lakes CPUs to be released!

 

[nicalandia]

Waiting for the 65W Raptor Lakes CPUs to be released!

The 13900 should be around the corner.

 

[jpiniero]

Then where is the limit?

~1500 W, including everything else in the system (memory, dGPU, chipsets, etc)

 

[TheELF]

Actually they started back with the 9900k. Imagine that.

Yes sure, that's why every overclocking guide before that starts with the words, this is the hacked bios you need to flash to be able to overclock because power is limited to stock TDP....
All the mobos before that had unlimited power limits, with the 9900k they started to use power limits for the first time.

 

[utahraptor]

How difficult is it to change the power limit? Can it be done in real time on the fly or do you have to go into the bios? I was curious if you had like a car racing pedal peripheral input, could you rig that up so that if you say pushed it a little the power limit would up maybe 20% and if you pushed it all the way down it would go to unlimited. That way you could hammer down if you had a temporary but heavy work load or your frames started to drop in a game or something.

 

[gdansk]

The limit is whatever people will buy.

You're right in the end but are consumers given enough options? I bought a 230W TDP CPU. But I don't use it that way. AMD didn't get the message that I'd have preferred 170W TDP because I bought the "wrong" SKU. And the availability of Intel's more reasonable power limit SKUs is almost always awful.

 

[Henry swagger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585628971068452866

The gap will increase as new demanding games are made

 

[TheELF]

How difficult is it to change the power limit? Can it be done in real time on the fly or do you have to go into the bios? I was curious if you had like a car racing pedal peripheral input, could you rig that up so that if you say pushed it a little the power limit would up maybe 20% and if you pushed it all the way down it would go to unlimited. That way you could hammer down if you had a temporary but heavy work load or your frames started to drop in a game or something.

You use one main setup from bios, either full bore or minimum, and then you use IXTU from windows to set up profiles for any workload you run that would benefit from a different setup, say you use your PC 90% for webbrowsing you would set the bios to low power and use IXTU to give as high an amount of power as you want to the other 10% of workloads you only use rarely.

 

[aigomorla]

~1500 W, including everything else in the system (memory, dGPU, chipsets, etc)

sheeze why not just make it 1750W where its the limit for most 120V 15amp socket in most of America.
Lets force people to put a dedicated outlet on its own 15amp breaker just for there PC.

Or for the Entusiest, lets have them install a NEMA-20 or a 240V 30Amp socket just for there gaming PC to go pew pew when they are powering a 4090 along with it.

 

[MarkPost]

People buy and do all sorts of stupid and dangerous things.

Companies should be more responsible and not sell the product at a ridiculous and dangerous setting just to be able to top the charts.

View attachment 69942

I quickly cut the irrelevant low power part of the table off. Even at 250W it performs as high as 7950X. I will run my CPU capped at 180W, that is what my air cooler can handle. I am now playing with 13600K and 13700K, not sure which one I will keep.

That score @275W, is what a 7950X capped @150W scores

 

[biostud]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585628971068452866

The gap will increase as new demanding games are made

Until zen4 3D is released. Look how well 5800X3D handles the game.

 

[LightningZ71]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585628971068452866

The gap will increase as new demanding games are made

Judging by the positioning of the 5800X3d, it doesn't get any more obvious that this game has a cache thrashing critical loop. It looks to possibly have a use for extra threads over 16, but it isn't a massive need considering how the 12900k is beaten by the 13600k. That demonstrates that clocks and L2 are important too.

No real idea why Rocket lake is where it is, save for code favorable to the Intel cove core design and Intel's cache strategy.