Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Just Benching]

TLDR: If you set a 12900k to 241w, TAU unlimited, and adequate cooling, it'll win most multithreaded benchmarks against a stock-boosting 5950x. Let's not act like that's what's happening in all these reviews. It's certainly not the case for computerbase.

I think it's more complicated than that. It won't win everything, there are MT stuff that zen 3 is really good at. Some specific blender scenes seem to do better on zen 3 for example.

The thing is, imo, 12900k had no place to compete against the 5950x in the first place. Yes it can, but I find it pointless. If you want that level of MT just go for the 5950x. The 12900k should be limited to 150w on stock, obliterate the 5900x in MT and just stomp every zen 3 in ST and lightly threaded workloads. Instead intel decided to take the fight to the 5950x, a thing that although doable, it's way outside the voltage comfort zone, leading to high wattage.

 

[Just Benching]

Have you gone mad?

AMD has the lowly 7600X beating the 12900K in games, matching or exceeding the 5800X3D. The 12600K has Nothing on the 7600X.

What games, we are not talking about games here, we are talking about MT performance.

But since im new to the forum, back when ADL launched the 12600k was beating the 5950x. Did you make a similar post back then praising the 12600k or are you just doing it for amd? I really wonder

 

[nicalandia]

What games, we are not talking about games here, we are talking about MT performance.

I am not sure what's your agenda here, but a stock 12600K is NOT beating the 7600K at any worthwhile ST and MT performance metrics.

 

[Zucker2k]

I think it's more complicated than that. It won't win everything, there are MT stuff that zen 3 is really good at. Some specific blender scenes seem to do better on zen 3 for example.

Yeah, I said most, not all.

 

[coercitiv]

I figured the E-cores wouldn’t improve much in terms of clocks.

Let's be fair here, we can't openly criticize Intel for throwing efficiency out the windows while also complaining the E cores aren't scaling high enough. The E cores are there in a support role, they better run with moderate clocks.

 

[Just Benching]

I am not sure what's your agenda here, but a stock 12600K is NOT beating the 7600K at any worthwhile ST and MT performance metrics.

Im not sure what your agenda here is either, but why does it matter.

According to this https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i5-12600k-alder-lake-12th-gen/images/cinebench-multi.png

the 12600k is 60% faster than the 5600x. Are you suggesting that the 7600x is going to be at least 60% faster than the 5600x? If not, then it loses to the 12600k

 

[biostud]

Doesn't the12900k, 5800X3D and possibly the 7600X all perform within 5% average difference in games, making them equal (or very close to) in all real life situations?

 

[Just Benching]

Doesn't the12900k, 5800X3D and possibly the 7600X all perform within 5% average difference in games, making them equal (or very close to) in all real life situations?

Depends. The 12900k can scale with ram up to 7200c28, zen 4 can't according to amd.

The 3d is more a hit and miss cpu, some games its the fastest hands down, some others its even slower than the non 3d 5800x. So unless you know your games scale with the cache, you don't go for the 3d

 

[nicalandia]

The 12600k is 60% faster than the 5600x. Are you suggesting that the 7600x is going to be at least 60% faster than the 5600x? If not, then it loses to the 12600k

Cinebench R23 is just one benchmark and the 7600X will land between 15,200 and 15,600 on MT, but how many hours you game on Cinebench?

When the 7600X Gaming performance are shown the 12600K will become an afterthought.



Geekbench is a better all around benchmark for ST and MT

7600X Geekbench ST and MT

Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D69 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D69 with an AMD Ryzen 5 7600X processor.

browser.geekbench.com

Intel Core i5-12600K Benchmarks - Geekbench

 

[jpiniero]

If the i5-13400 has the same CPIID & stepping as the higher end models, can we say its not an ADL reuse?

I saw that earlier and figured it was fake due to that mistake.

 

[mikk]

Lest we all forget, on embarrassingly parallel workloads, a 12900k will boost to 241w for 56 seconds only, after which it'll drop to 125w for the remainder of the run. A 5950x on the other hand, will use 142w throughout the run as long as the chip doesn't run into a thermal wall. Some overly bias sites like computerbase, with the prodding of the AMD fan base, has resorted to running rendering files or loops to extend benching time past 56 seconds and pat themselves on the back afterwards. Meanwhile, they capture power consumption in the first 56 seconds of the run (during average peak power consumption) and say 'look the 12900k is consuming 241w.'

Is this real? CB don't test PL2 with unlimited time?

 

[jpiniero]

Is this real? CB don't test PL2 with unlimited time?

Yeah I figure most Z690 boards will boost K parts to PL2 indefinitely by default. Well within the locked multipliers anyway.

 

[Zucker2k]

Is this real? CB don't test PL2 with unlimited time?

They say it's too short so they loop it beyond 56 seconds.I'm talking more about 12900k's boost behavior than CBs ability to run in prolonged time.

Edited for clarity.

 

[Just Benching]

Cinebench R23 is just one benchmark and the 7600X will land between 15,000 and 15,000 on MT, but how many hours you game on Cinebench?

When the 7600X Gaming performance are shown the 12600K will become an afterthought.



Geekbench is a better all around benchmark for ST and MT

7600X Geekbench ST and MT

Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D69 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-7D69 with an AMD Ryzen 5 7600X processor.

browser.geekbench.com

Intel Core i5-12600K Benchmarks - Geekbench

I don't know, have people been playing a lot of it the last few years that amd was winning and now that intel is winning they finally moved away to other games?

 

[Rigg]

Doesn't the12900k, 5800X3D and possibly the 7600X all perform within 5% average difference in games, making them equal (or very close to) in all real life situations?

In this test the 5800x3D is faster by 1% avg in 40 games at 1080p, 1440p, and 4k. The 12900k is using 6400 Mt/s DDR5.

Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs. Core i9-12900K in 40 Games

A massive gaming benchmark comparison between the Ryzen 7 5800X3D and Core i9-12900K, pitting the two head to head across 40 games at 1080p, 1440p and 4K,...

www.techspot.com

 

[nicalandia]

I don't know, have people been playing a lot of it the last few years that amd was winning and now that intel is winning they finally moved away to other games?

At the very top, Intel is not Winning Cinebench R23, Midrange CPUs is always a tossup.

 

[FangBLade]

Wait what? Amd is the one that basically almost doubles the power consumption of their CPU's, intel kept it steady. So what the heck are you talking about man?

The R5 went from 65 to 105w TDP to be able to compete with intel's i5, yet it will end up losing to last gen's i5, and not by a small margin. This years13600k is not even in the same ballpark.

So wtf, what am I missing?

Are you Bencher from forums.overclockers.co.uk??

 

[MarkPost]

TLDR: If you set a 12900k to 241w, TAU unlimited, and adequate cooling, it'll win most multithreaded benchmarks against a stock-boosting 5950x. Let's not act like that's what's happening in all these reviews. It's certainly not the case for computerbase.

I've run more than a hundred of MT tests (both CPUs oced, 5950X @4.5; 12900K @5.0/4.0) and 5950X is faster in double figures average.

edit: and that, consuming clearly less power

 

[Just Benching]

At the very top, Intel is not Winning Cinebench R23, Midrange CPUs is always a tossup.

As far as I know, alderlake was winning in every bracket. The difference will only grow with raptorlake in the mid and low end brackets

 

[maddie]

Wait what? Amd is the one that basically almost doubles the power consumption of their CPU's, intel kept it steady. So what the heck are you talking about man?

The R5 went from 65 to 105w TDP to be able to compete with intel's i5, yet it will end up losing to last gen's i5, and not by a small margin. This years13600k is not even in the same ballpark.

So wtf, what am I missing?

Are you really sure you want an answer to your question?

 

[Just Benching]

Are you really sure you want an answer to your question?

YES. Cause maybe I misunderstood something, so please tell, if Im wrong I wanna know and correct myself. I thought amd increased power consumption across the board to compete with Intel, while intel kept the consumption steady while adding more cores. Is that wrong?

 

[UsandThem]

This thread is about Raptor Lake.

Discussing anything else will result in infractions. If you don't like a particular poster, put them on ignore.

If you think the post violates forum posting rules, simply report it and the moderators will review it.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[maddie]

YES. Cause maybe I misunderstood something, so please tell, if Im wrong I wanna know and correct myself. I thought amd increased power consumption across the board to compete with Intel, while intel kept the consumption steady while adding more cores. Is that wrong?

Well you asked for it. You are obnoxiously aggressive, confrontational and frankly boorish as a new member here. Most of the big arguments taking place are between members who have been battling for a long time and understand limits for the most part. Jumping in and trying to intimidate opposing views is what is leading to a pushback.

In other words, it's how you write, not so much what you write.

With regards to power, Intel countered with increased power then AMD partially returned the favor. To be honest, they (AMD) probably did design for higher clocks and power before ADL emerged, as the circuitry changes needed would have to a fundamental part of the design and not a sudden reaction.

 

[Just Benching]

With regards to power, Intel countered with increased power then AMD partially returned the favor. To be honest, they (AMD) probably did design for higher clocks and power before ADL emerged, as the circuitry changes needed would have to a fundamental part of the design and not a sudden reaction.

Intel has kept the power relatively steady (high, but steady) for at least what, 4 years now. The 9900k was already boosting to 180w, the ks a little bit higher, the 10900k was already at 240w. Regardless, it wasn't you that made the claim, but eek literally said "intel is pushing these chips to the limit in power consumption to compete with amd", when the reality is the exact opposite, amd is pushing their chips to the limit in order to compete with intel, upping the power consumption by as much as 60%.

 

[maddie]

Intel has kept the power relatively steady (high, but steady) for at least what, 4 years now. The 9900k was already boosting to 180w, the ks a little bit higher, the 10900k was already at 240w. Regardless, it wasn't you that made the claim, but eek literally said "intel is pushing these chips to the limit in power consumption to compete with amd", when the reality is the exact opposite, amd is pushing their chips to the limit in order to compete with intel, upping the power consumption by as much as 60%.

Can I now believe, based on this, that Intel is struggling to advance and needs to use ever increasing power consumption to improve CPU performance?