-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
Zydrunas Ilgauskus for the no. 2 overall pick in the draft?
Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
On the contrary....
I watched plenty of the playoffs... enough to know without a doubt Z stunk it up in the playoffs. The fact that they took Detroit to 7 games with Z playing as poorly as he did is a testament to why they should keep him-- had he played anywhere near his regular season self the Cavs would have come out on top.
Like I said... there is noone in this draft who will be able to match Z's production at the center spot for the next few years.
Accipiter22
Banned
darko's not a bad player, LB just let him rot on the bench...remember he's only 20 now....not every 20 year old is like lebron....darko did fine in orlando
Accipiter22
Banned
well he's still young, but he's still sub par on Defense, and still tentative in clutch situations (replaying the same few games where he took over down the stretch on ESPN over and over and over doens't make someone clutch)....offensively, yeah other than that he's exceeded all expectations
wow there are some really stupid comments in here
While I think Darko is going to be an ok player, can the Piston fans stop defending him being the #2 pick in that draft, and the AWFUL trade to send him to Orlando this year?
Passed on C.Anthony, C.Bosh, and D.Wade - how can someone say that D.Wade "wouldn't be picked #2" when he was, what, the 5th pick in the draft? I can see passing on Anthony with Prince already on your team, but passing on Wade and Bosh was just bad.
As for the 'rumored' trade in the title of this thread, I really don't see it happening.
I'm really sick and tired of all the Z bashing here in Cleveland...my favorite comment is "Z slows them down"...Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "Showtime" Lakers didn't exactly have a greyhound of a center in Kareem, right? All 5 guys don't typically get to the basket for a running team, unless you are talking about the style the Suns play, which is unique in the league right now. The Cavs need a point guard who can shoot the ball and push the ball up the court - pair that with Hughes and LeBron and you have a devasting fast break group- even if Z and your PF aren't out running with them.
I would say the Cavs will have a tough time moving Z - I'd love to see Brad Miller on the Cavs, but I don't see it happening, but they can win with Z anyway. They have to decide on Drew Gooden, they have first round pick this year, and 2 2nd round picks (Dee Brown will almost assuredly be one of their 2nd round picks, or at least a guy they look at), and Luke Jackson, a guy quite a few teams were high on when he was in the draft, but he hasn't been able to stay healthy.
As far as guys in this draft who could really help the Cavs, Marcus Williams, pg from UConn, would be perfect...but they would have to move up in the draft to get him...look for someone like Jordan F., the UCLA point guard, to be their first round pick.
The other rumor I've heard here in Cleveland is that they have an interest in acquiring Sebastian Telfair from Portland, and possibly even Zach Randolph, for Drew Gooden (sign & trade), Luke Jackson, Damon Jones, and draft picks..Jackson makes sense cause he's from Oregon, and Portland's ownership wants to clean house - perhaps you even include Z and Pryzbilla in the deal as well, I don't know. Randolph has a lot of ability, but he's a bit of an airhead, might be the worst passer out of the post in the NBA, and has yet to play any defense, but he can score in the post very nicely.
Should be an interesting off-season...I also think it's a bit early to write off the Pistons, no way the Heat would win a game #7 in Detroit, next game is do-or-die I think.
While I think Darko is going to be an ok player, can the Piston fans stop defending him being the #2 pick in that draft, and the AWFUL trade to send him to Orlando this year?
Passed on C.Anthony, C.Bosh, and D.Wade - how can someone say that D.Wade "wouldn't be picked #2" when he was, what, the 5th pick in the draft? I can see passing on Anthony with Prince already on your team, but passing on Wade and Bosh was just bad.
As for the 'rumored' trade in the title of this thread, I really don't see it happening.
I'm really sick and tired of all the Z bashing here in Cleveland...my favorite comment is "Z slows them down"...Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "Showtime" Lakers didn't exactly have a greyhound of a center in Kareem, right? All 5 guys don't typically get to the basket for a running team, unless you are talking about the style the Suns play, which is unique in the league right now. The Cavs need a point guard who can shoot the ball and push the ball up the court - pair that with Hughes and LeBron and you have a devasting fast break group- even if Z and your PF aren't out running with them.
I would say the Cavs will have a tough time moving Z - I'd love to see Brad Miller on the Cavs, but I don't see it happening, but they can win with Z anyway. They have to decide on Drew Gooden, they have first round pick this year, and 2 2nd round picks (Dee Brown will almost assuredly be one of their 2nd round picks, or at least a guy they look at), and Luke Jackson, a guy quite a few teams were high on when he was in the draft, but he hasn't been able to stay healthy.
As far as guys in this draft who could really help the Cavs, Marcus Williams, pg from UConn, would be perfect...but they would have to move up in the draft to get him...look for someone like Jordan F., the UCLA point guard, to be their first round pick.
The other rumor I've heard here in Cleveland is that they have an interest in acquiring Sebastian Telfair from Portland, and possibly even Zach Randolph, for Drew Gooden (sign & trade), Luke Jackson, Damon Jones, and draft picks..Jackson makes sense cause he's from Oregon, and Portland's ownership wants to clean house - perhaps you even include Z and Pryzbilla in the deal as well, I don't know. Randolph has a lot of ability, but he's a bit of an airhead, might be the worst passer out of the post in the NBA, and has yet to play any defense, but he can score in the post very nicely.
Should be an interesting off-season...I also think it's a bit early to write off the Pistons, no way the Heat would win a game #7 in Detroit, next game is do-or-die I think.
More like 1 yr, 2 yrs top. The guy is 30(31 in 4 days) with a bad foot...you figure it out.
So you do agree he stunk it up in the playoffs which is why Cleveland would love to get rid of the guy...they found out they can compete with much help from him.
And to say there is no one in this years draft is total ridiculous.
Theres always good players from any draft.
Drafting from a #2 position gives you a better option of picking that player.
Accipiter22
Banned
Z used to be one of my fav players...but he's been damaged goods, and sub par for about 3 seasons now........I dunno much about the PG from UCONN mentioned a few posts up, but remember, the Cavs run the offense through Lebron...so a chris paul / jkidd type PG wouldn't be as important to the cavs...
I agree that the Cavs do not need a "pure" PG since they have LeBron. They need someone with good PG skills that can also shoot the ball. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 15PPG and 5-6 assists, to basically take some of the pressure off of LeBron. Having a PG who averages 3-4PPG and 3APG, as they do with Snow, basically means Snow's guard is doubling LBJ over and over.
Also, I agree that in the Piston's series Z looked REALLY bad and slow. Yes, I know he can be a good player and a boon to the Cavs in the regular season and against certain opponents, but the Pistons series showed that he can't hang with Detroit. And who are we most likely to continue to see in future playoff runs? Detroit. I was much more impressed with Anderson Varejao against the Pistons, and he is much quicker and more energetic than Z.
Here's what I see happening at the very least. NOTHING with Z until Gilbert can get LBJ to sign on the dotted line for his extension. Since LBJ was a HUGE factor in the Cavs keeping Z, they have to at least make it look like Z is staying until they can sign LBJ. After that, they can do whatever they want with him. As long as the end result is the Cavs winning games and going deep into the playoffs, LeBron will forget about the loss of Z in a hurry.
Also, I agree that in the Piston's series Z looked REALLY bad and slow. Yes, I know he can be a good player and a boon to the Cavs in the regular season and against certain opponents, but the Pistons series showed that he can't hang with Detroit. And who are we most likely to continue to see in future playoff runs? Detroit. I was much more impressed with Anderson Varejao against the Pistons, and he is much quicker and more energetic than Z.
Here's what I see happening at the very least. NOTHING with Z until Gilbert can get LBJ to sign on the dotted line for his extension. Since LBJ was a HUGE factor in the Cavs keeping Z, they have to at least make it look like Z is staying until they can sign LBJ. After that, they can do whatever they want with him. As long as the end result is the Cavs winning games and going deep into the playoffs, LeBron will forget about the loss of Z in a hurry.
iamme
Lifer
wouldn't be an NBA thread without NeoV calling everyone else's opinion stupid :laugh:
you HONESTLY can tell me that with the #2 pick any team in the NBA would have passed on Carmelo and Darko? i'm talking about the mindset of pretty much the entire NBA at the time of the draft. it was: Lebron, Darko, Carmelo as the top three picks. that was pretty much set in stone.
Darko was getting lots of hype leading up to the draft and i remember Chris Ford actually putting out an article saying he might pick Darko OVER Lebron. OBVIOUSLY that looks silly now, but at the time i can't believe there was ANY mock draft published, online, of even in a GM's boardroom that had Wade as the #2 pick over Anthony and Darko. hell, if Miami had the #3 pick, i bet they would have picked Carmelo.
the Darko pick was a mistake in hindsight, for the PISTONS. If the Pistons were a team like Orlando, and Darko would have three full seasons of playing time under his belt who knows what kind of player he'd be. anyways, Darko's abilities are a tired argument i have no interest partaking in.
even the Pistons drafting Wade wouldn't have made sense back then, because they had their backcourt in Billups and Hamilton. now Bosh would have been doable. if i could rewrite history, trading down to get Bosh would have been perfect.
Lets not forget that at least two people in this thread said that LeBron James is "overhyped" - thus the "stupid" comment.
Darko had a lot of pub, but there were also a lot of teams shying away from him, and I don't think anyone other than the Pistons had him at #2 over Anthony...it will be interesting to see what Detroit does in the offseason, I'm appalled at the sniping going on at Flip Saunders - is it too much to ask Weed Wallace to at least go in the huddle while they discuss plays/strategy?
What sense did it make to take Darko with Wallace and Wallace ahead of him? They could have used Anthony or Wade off the bench given their complete lack of depth and offense off the bench other than McDyess.
Darko had a lot of pub, but there were also a lot of teams shying away from him, and I don't think anyone other than the Pistons had him at #2 over Anthony...it will be interesting to see what Detroit does in the offseason, I'm appalled at the sniping going on at Flip Saunders - is it too much to ask Weed Wallace to at least go in the huddle while they discuss plays/strategy?
What sense did it make to take Darko with Wallace and Wallace ahead of him? They could have used Anthony or Wade off the bench given their complete lack of depth and offense off the bench other than McDyess.
If there is one thing I hate argueing with is hindsight possibilities.
Around that time, everyone pagged LBJ as #1.
And then there was a small few who said Darko and CA(who stepped it up in the NCAA) could be picked as #1(although that was next to nil)
But no one and no one ever had anyone going in the top 3, not Bosh, and definately not Wade.
How many times have scouts said "insane amount of athleticism, can drive at will but weak on outside shooting" ??
I think I heard that profile hundreds of times....some turn out to be stars some just fizzle.
Jordan, V Carter, Wade are classic examples but those who thrived at the NBA levels and there are tons who just never developed.
I mean good god stop acting like you knew who was going to be stars and who didn't....if you knew everything, you'd be GM for some team now.
Around that time, everyone pagged LBJ as #1.
And then there was a small few who said Darko and CA(who stepped it up in the NCAA) could be picked as #1(although that was next to nil)
But no one and no one ever had anyone going in the top 3, not Bosh, and definately not Wade.
How many times have scouts said "insane amount of athleticism, can drive at will but weak on outside shooting" ??
I think I heard that profile hundreds of times....some turn out to be stars some just fizzle.
Jordan, V Carter, Wade are classic examples but those who thrived at the NBA levels and there are tons who just never developed.
I mean good god stop acting like you knew who was going to be stars and who didn't....if you knew everything, you'd be GM for some team now.
suicidalpigeon
Banned
micheal doleac baby!
For someone who's acting like an NBA GM, you should have known that they drafted Darko before getting Rasheed.
Rasheed got to detroit half way into the season.
And yes, pleanty of teams pegged Darko as the consesus #2.
It was only in the NCAA tournament that CA made such a big run that had scouts talking about him being #2 or even #1.
iamme
Lifer
lol, i know i was just teasing.
no doubt. the whole Darko thing was that he was a project type player w/ huge upside as a 7 footer w/ "european" fundamentals and skills. at the the time it made perfect sense to groom a project center that could turn out to be a great player, since the Pistons were an ECF's team and there was no immediate need to an impact player.
point is, no one had Wade in the top three. to say Detroit messed up by passing over Wade isn't fair because no one expected Wade to be this good.
yeah, this past two weeks has had be depressed as a Piston's fan. from a team that was known as one that was so tight and functioned as a unit.....all the bickering has been unexpected and sad. this is what's really adding fuel to the Ben sign/trade rumors and even Sheed trade rumors. i've even heard rumors that Ben is becoming a cancerous type in the lockerroom with his hissy fits.
size. Darko was a 7 foot center w/ quickness, mobility, an outside shot, etc. etc. scouts were coming back from Europe coveting Darko as a secret in Serbia-Montenegro. people were saying that he's been playing w/ men on the national team at age 17. the hype machine was rolling. the mindset was, let Darko quietly develop for 3-4 years (Dumars is on record saying that was the timetable for Darko) and then he could possibly be Ben's successor. depth at center is scarce in the NBA, and you know that. swingmen and guards much more plentiful. at the time, it's hard to fault Detroit for picking Darko.
and yeah, i'm disappointed in the Darko to ORL trade, considering there were rumors about Darko for Al Harrington a while before that.
Detroit didn't have 'sheed yet as pointed out. Also, sheed was a bit of a risk too. He's one of those players where you have to worry that he will poison the team with his antics, ron artest style.
Those who are worried about detroit's chemistry should chill. They did ok when larry brown was apparently actively negotiating with other teams. I suspect at least some of the stuff now is just doing whatever it takes to motivate your team. Phil Jackson style. It's not at the level of terrell owens yet.
Those who are worried about detroit's chemistry should chill. They did ok when larry brown was apparently actively negotiating with other teams. I suspect at least some of the stuff now is just doing whatever it takes to motivate your team. Phil Jackson style. It's not at the level of terrell owens yet.
sniperruff
Lifer
i've read somewhere that this year's draft can be pretty mediocre, so Z for a pick is a bargain, whether he has a history of injury or not.
Don't know if it was true or not but it would have been hard to keep Harrington because hes an unrestricted FA and might command MAX contract.
Not when they have to resign Big Ben too.
Although that trade to Orlando was a mistake, I kinda understand where Detroit was going though.
They get Cato's $8.6 mils off the books after the season and they get Orlando's 1st round draft pick although it likely will not be very high.
Doing it this way, they are committed to around $48 mils for next season which leaves them about $7 mils to sign a FA and then resign BW.(I'm guessing the cap will be around $55 mils next season.
I know only the worst scout in the world would actually allow this, but I wonder if they were overconfident about dealing with shaq. The pistons did a good job against him when they trounced the lakers in the finals. But Shaq is now a different player. In better shape, quicker, and generally fresher because he plays less minutes.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
