Zune HD vs IPod Touch

[ncage]

Hey everyone having a hard time deciding between these two devices. I have read plenty of reviews. Here are what i like/dislike about each device:

Zune Dislikes:
App store is horrible

Zune Likes:
Zune Pass
Output to 720P to TV (Most likely i will get the dock if i buy this)
Zune Software (prefer over itunes)
beautiful OLED screen
Nvida Tegra (eventhough they seem to waist the power a lot without apps)

Ipod Dislikes:
Interface Sucks compared to the zune
No good way output video to TV
No good subscription service compared to zune pass
ITunes

Ipod Likes:
App Store


What i'm contemplating right now is how usefully the apps would be with no network connection (how i will use the device most of the time). Most of the useful apps ive seen either require you be connected some way to the internet or require GPS (which the new touch doesn't have). I don't want games.

What do you guys think?

 

[JoshGuru7]

I picked up a Zune HD and like it a lot so far, however I wouldn't say the interface is that much better than the Touch as they are both pretty slick. Additionally, the Touch has a lot of apps that don't require connectivity: recipes, guitar tuning, constellation maps, photo editors, calculators (budget, tip, finance, etc), musical instruments and so on. Then there are a bunch that only require sporadic connectivity such as newspaper, weather, movie reviews, etc.

I chose the Zune HD over the Touch for three reasons.
1) The subscription plan. I've been using rhapsody for years and so far like the Zune pass roughly equally.
2) HD Radio w/ tagging. I listen to the radio as much as I listen to mp3's.
3) Little desire for apps. I carry a blackberry at all times that has both connectivity and GPS for some of the more important on the go apps, and I feel that I can calculate my own tips and such without the help of my mp3 player.

I also have the A/V dock and use it constantly for hooking into my sound system, but have not yet tried to output video to my HDTV.

 

[hans030390]

Regarding the Zune's app store, what else do you expect? It just came out. It's still not clear how Microsoft is going to handle apps. They have the developmental tools available, but no one really knows if they're planning on taking on Apple's app store.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think the big question comes down to what you're looking for right now. If you want the whole experience (internet, multimedia, light games, other stuff), then the Touch is the clear winner right now. If you're more interested in music playback with some light extras, then its much more difficult. The ZuneHD would seem to offer the better experience there out of the box, but I know with apps the Touch actually is better in some respect (more format support, streaming internet Radio). The ZuneHD has a lot of potential, but I don't see Microsoft catching up to Apple on the apps before we see the Touch having roughly equal or better hardware.

I feel the software is a wash, but I don't hate iTunes or the Zune software (by no means are either one perfect, but both were fine for me). I agree Zune Pass is great, but is there anything stopping you from utilizing that while having an iPod? Sure it probably wouldn't be seamless as you'd have to use the Zune software and then have iTunes get the music (I have to assume that having them both try to access the same library would be a nightmare but maybe not if you don't let either one "control" it but rather just access it, or maybe just one of them). You could always use a different program for syncing music to the iPod as well so that might help. Actually I think the Rhapsody is on the Touch now, although I'm not sure if that's comparable. Isn't there a dock that does video out for iPods? I was thinking it allowed 640x480, which yes isn't HD, but I'm not sure that the HD videos from the Zune would be that much better, and really it makes more sense to put the money toward a better device that can do more. You can get plenty of devices for ~$100 that can do much more than the ZuneHD dock will allow. You can get a 360 or Apple TV for about $150 easily for instance, and there's the Rocku player which allows Netflix streaming among other features.

Something I would like to see, and maybe its been done via jailbreaking/3rd party apps, but I would like Apple to make a multimedia interface for the Touch, make it so you can switch between the regular one and one more like a typical PMP like the Zune. It'd be like changing between regular Windows and Media Center.

 

[DaveSimmons]

MS has said they are not offering an open Zune app store and won't be using the Windows Mobile app store any time soon. They've only said they'll someday maybe look at offering something.

So at the moment the only way to share XNA games for Zune is to have users install Visual C# Express, .Net 3.5 and the XNA tools, then take your source code and build and deploy it from their PC.

FYI, there's now a Rhapsody app for the iPhone/iTouch for subscription music, but it doesn't offer offline listening only streaming.

 

[gar655]

Zune dislike- Doesn't work on my Mac. Too bad. Otherwise I like the Zunes.

 

[Deeko]

Long debate on this in Gadgets forum: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

My conclusion - ZuneHD. Better interface, HD Radio, Zune Pass, no iTunes. I don't really consider the apps to be a big deal for a PMP, considering I already have a G1 with plenty of them.

 

[dwell]

Zune HD is not getting an app store because Microsoft is a mess internally and does not want to compete with themselves with WinMob's app store. The Zune may have a better interface (debatable) but at the end of the day no apps means a huge chunk is missing.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Deeko
My conclusion - ZuneHD. Better interface, HD Radio, Zune Pass, no iTunes. I don't really consider the apps to be a big deal for a PMP, considering I already have a G1 with plenty of them.

I might agree if I cared about portable video. If you just care about portable audio then it's a poor value compared to other players on the market, many under $100.

 

[ncage]

Originally posted by: hans030390
Regarding the Zune's app store, what else do you expect? It just came out. It's still not clear how Microsoft is going to handle apps. They have the developmental tools available, but no one really knows if they're planning on taking on Apple's app store.

What do i expect? Its most likely the zune os is based upon windows CE in one form or another. They have ported the .Net platform different form factors. If you don't think the zune platform could handle .net then look here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u...ramework/bb267253.aspx

I assume microsoft knows one of the biggest attraction to the ipod line is app store. So what do i expect? Maybe a API for .Net to develop on the zune. I think they are waisting a lot of the power of tegra if they don't allow this. If they had an app store i can't imagine anyone buying an ipod (i definitely wouldn't) especially considering the dev environment for .net is a dream compared to iphone development along with the craziness that you have to pay $100 a year to even put your own apps on your own phone

 

[ncage]

What a lot of people fail to consider is i'm not talking about the number of apps. Yes if they release a app store it wont' have nearly as many as apple but give the developers a good environment to program and a new source of revenue generation and they will come.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: Deeko
My conclusion - ZuneHD. Better interface, HD Radio, Zune Pass, no iTunes. I don't really consider the apps to be a big deal for a PMP, considering I already have a G1 with plenty of them.

I might agree if I cared about portable video. If you just care about portable audio then it's a poor value compared to other players on the market, many under $100.

Well sure - if all you want is to play MP3s at the best bang for your buck, go get a Sansa clip (I have one of those too for the gym). However, the ZuneHD does have some attractive audio features you won't find on cheaper players. HD Radio is nothing to ignore, its a great feature. I realize people have mixed feelings on subscription music, but if that's up your alley, the Zune Pass is the bet value out there, way better than Napster or Rhapsody.

Not to mention, of course, the various video features and the gorgeous screen that goes with it. At $219 for 16gb and $289 for 32gb, its a pretty good deal.

 

[Malak]

I didn't buy the ZuneHD for the apps store, so as far as I can tell the only downside is a moot point for me. It was an easy choice once I installed the Zune software. I had already disliked the Itunes software, and the Zune software was waaaaaay better. Not to mention Zune Pass is perfect. I'm actually giving my ipod away to someone. Apple might have a great app store, but that's not enough to compete in my book.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: ncage
What a lot of people fail to consider is i'm not talking about the number of apps. Yes if they release a app store it wont' have nearly as many as apple but give the developers a good environment to program and a new source of revenue generation and they will come.

Agreed, I was seriously thinking of buying one for a development toy until I found out the rumors were wrong: no app store, no SDK, only XNA game apps that you have to share source for and get other people to build.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Well sure - if all you want is to play MP3s at the best bang for your buck, go get a Sansa clip (I have one of those too for the gym). However, the ZuneHD does have some attractive audio features you won't find on cheaper players. HD Radio is nothing to ignore, its a great feature. I realize people have mixed feelings on subscription music, but if that's up your alley, the Zune Pass is the bet value out there, way better than Napster or Rhapsody.

Not many people are going to buy at $220 device just to play music and that's where Microsoft fucked up with the Zune yet again. They killed off the low-end models and now have an expensive touch screen device that uses the touch screen for basically only navigation. iPods run the gamut from $60 all the way up to $400 and the whole iPhone line. Microsoft are trying to compete with an iPod Touch competitor alone. As it stands, the Zune HD is probably only going to sell the "I hate iTunes" crowd, who are about as influential as the Linux "I hate Windows" guys in the grand scheme of things.

 

[erwos]

They're different devices with different features, it's very difficult to "rate" them against each other in some objective way.

Someone out in the boondocks might not care about digital radio, because there's none around. Here in DC, we have tons of digital radio stations, and it's a handy feature.

If you buy all your music via iTunes, yeah, the iPod Touch is where it's at. But if you like the Zune Pass, and it's quite a deal in its own way, the Zune HD is going to appeal way more.

Even the iPod Touch's vaunted app store may or may not be of very much value to you. It's obvious that there's a lot there, but then again, many of us are packing smartphones with fairly substantial application libraries, too.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Chris

Not many people are going to buy at $220 device just to play music and that's where Microsoft fucked up with the Zune yet again. They killed off the low-end models and now have an expensive touch screen device that uses the touch screen for basically only navigation. iPods run the gamut from $60 all the way up to $400 and the whole iPhone line. Microsoft are trying to compete with an iPod Touch competitor alone. As it stands, the Zune HD is probably only going to sell the "I hate iTunes" crowd, who are about as influential as the Linux "I hate Windows" guys in the grand scheme of things.

One of the biggest draws to the ZuneHD is its video features. The screen is gorgeous - yes, its a slightly lower pixel density than the iPod Touch, but side-by-side it looks just as good or better (depending on indoor or outdoor, admittedly the OLED screen doesn't do great in direct sunlight). It also will sync pictures and has the whole touch screen experience there, with swiping from picture to picture and multitouch zooming, if you're into that sort of thing.

Plus, while the browser & apps are not at the level of the iPod Touch and are not the focus of the device (I certainly didn't get mine for those things), they aren't throwaway features. Some reviews (ars) hate the browser, some (gizmodo) love it. In my experience, the browser is better than the benchmarks give it credit for. Its actually pretty quick, faster than my G1, which does 3x better in the benchmarks, so take it for what you will.

I will agree with you that I don't really think it was a good idea to drop the other Zunes from the line. I think Microsoft want to emphasize their commitment to the Zune HD, but a cheaper, smaller line (like their old flash players) and a high-capacity line (like their old hard drive players) would give them a solid lineup all around.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I will agree with you that I don't really think it was a good idea to drop the other Zunes from the line. I think Microsoft want to emphasize their commitment to the Zune HD, but a cheaper, smaller line (like their old flash players) and a high-capacity line (like their old hard drive players) would give them a solid lineup all around.

I would not be shocked to see the HDD players die entirely. They're simply not a big force in the market anymore, and I imagine Microsoft is willing to give that niche to Archos and Apple. (And, FWIW, I think the iPod Classic's days are numbered, too.) It wouldn't surprise me if the margins were bad on them, too.

A lot of it is about branding, if I don't miss my guess. The Zune HD is the first portable AV player that people are genuinely comparing positively against the iPod Touch. The next player they release will need to be similarly competitive to whatever is in the pricing category. Much as I love the old Zune 16, it needs a couple feature bumps to get in a very competitive position with the new iPod Nanos.

My theory is that they're going to refresh the older flash line and make the "Zune HD Micro" or whatever. It'll probably feature some design compromises (eg, no more big OLED screen, slower, etc.), but they'd really be attacking Apple on their own turf with something like that. If I were to guess, I'd expect to see it with the next Zune HD refresh in 2010 (when they add a camera, volume rocker, and capacity upgrade to the existing Zune HD).

Once they've got the "install base" numbers up, they'll also be in a way better position to tackle the app store issue and make more convincing pitches to developers.

 

[Malak]

Finally got my ZuneHD today. Holy crap this thing is amazing. The screen is incredible.

Really I think the biggest thing to draw someone from an Ipod would be the software though. If you are an Ipod fan and use Itunes a lot, download Zune sometime. Just try it out. Heck try out Zune Pass, 14 day free trial. You might be convinced. The software is what dragged me away. And this ZuneHD is the same price as an Ipod Touch, with twice the capacity.