ZR1 laps 'ring in 7:26.4

[Ktulu]

http://blog.gmnext.com/?p=194

I know many people have been very interested in how fast the ZR1 would be at the Ring?

Most car enthusiasts are quite familiar with the Nürburgring. Built in the 1920?s near Cologne, Germany, ?the Ring? is considered to be the toughest and most challenging race track in the world.

Over the last two weeks, we have been doing our final tuning and testing there before we start ZR1 production cars. This morning (Friday June 27), General Motors development engineer Jim Mero drove the Corvette ZR1 around the Nürburgring in a time of 7:26.4.

Jim commented after the lap that conditions were good except for a strong headwind down the main straight and that the lap was solid, but he felt there were a few places he could have gone faster.

The car was bone stock with the exception of the communications and safety equipment. The tires were production Michelin Pilot Sport 2?s. These tires have been developed specifically for the ZR1 and will have impressive wet traction and wear (tread wear rating = 220), in addition to excellent dry road holding. Chassis alignment and vehicle height were set to factory specs. Likewise, the engine calibrations were absolutely stock, emissions compliant and the car ran on pump (not racing) fuel. The vehicle was exactly like the cars that will be built in Bowling Green, Kentucky and sold around the world later this summer.

Despite posting one of the fastest times ever run by a production car, Nürburgring lap times were not an over-riding priority in the development of the ZR1. The truth is, if the only priority was speed at the ring, the car would not be very pleasant to drive on American roads. The ZR1 is an incredibly capable track machine, but unlike most ultra-high performance cars, it is very easy to live with on a daily basis.

The timed lap was run with a rolling start, a departure from our previous practice of standing starts. This is more aligned with current industry practice. The lap was electronically timed and confirmed with two hand-held stopwatches. An in-car video will be posted when the engineering team returns from Germany. Look for it the week of July 7!

Bone stock. Can't wait to see official GT-R Vspec #'s.

 

[Arkaign]

Spectacular

 

[kevman]

My god they did it!

 

[GTaudiophile]

Does that beat the GT-R?

 

[Srfrbum]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

Sure does, zomg, we lazy americans finally did it.
*Pound* to GM.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

It does, but with a caveat.

The GT-R is more of a Z06 level car (~500hp, ~$70k)

The GT-R Spec-V will be the actual ZR-1 competitor

 

[kevman]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

It does, but with a caveat.

The GT-R is more of a Z06 level car (~500hp, ~$70k)

The GT-R Spec-V will be the actual ZR-1 competitor

Ahh...I knew there was a catch, so the top of the line Vette beats the non-vspec GT-R

I wonder what Spec-V will do.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

Umm by like 10 seconds...

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

Umm by like 10 seconds...

no, like 3 seconds

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: kevman

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

It does, but with a caveat.

The GT-R is more of a Z06 level car (~500hp, ~$70k)

The GT-R Spec-V will be the actual ZR-1 competitor

Ahh...I knew there was a catch, so the top of the line Vette beats the non-vspec GT-R

I wonder what Spec-V will do.

IDK, but it will be nuts.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...aught-running-the-rin/

300+lb weight drop, and 70-120 extra hp? Should be able to shave a ton of time off the lap. It might even break into the 7:18-7:19 range.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: kevman

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

It does, but with a caveat.

The GT-R is more of a Z06 level car (~500hp, ~$70k)

The GT-R Spec-V will be the actual ZR-1 competitor

Ahh...I knew there was a catch, so the top of the line Vette beats the non-vspec GT-R

I wonder what Spec-V will do.

IDK, but it will be nuts.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...aught-running-the-rin/

300+lb weight drop, and 70-120 extra hp? Should be able to shave a ton of time off the lap. It might even break into the 7:18-7:19 range.

Yeah no doubt the Vspec will be beast, but let's keep in mind the ZR1 above was driven by a development engineer. I want to see what it's capable of in teh hands of a race car driver like Magnussen.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

It does, but with a caveat.

The GT-R is more of a Z06 level car (~500hp, ~$70k)

The GT-R Spec-V will be the actual ZR-1 competitor

MSRP is a worthless comparison for these cars, you can buy a Z06 for under sticker, good luck doing that with a GTR:

Dealer markups to push GT-R pricing as high as $129,000

"Exhaustnote.com called on 15 Nissan dealers through the United States and found that the GT-R will command at least $20,000 over its window sticker. Several dealers even said they were going to handle GT-R sales like an auction, pitting prospective buyers against one another."

Not just picking on Nissan here, they have no control over dealer markups, and looking at the comments of the blog link above (dealer asking $200k!? for ZR1?), Chevrolet is going to have the same problem, but based on actual purchase price, the Z06 and GTR will not be on the same level. Why would Nissan set such a low MSRP for the GTR where they are losing money, while leaving so much room for the dealerships to jack the price up? It certainly reaks of a publicity stunt to falsely claim some unbelievable price performance achievement that was obviously never going to exist at the consumer level.

Also the VSpec isn't scheduled for US release until some time in 2010, that's a long way off. For those people made of money, ZR1's will be available this summer.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Pariah

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Does that beat the GT-R?

It does, but with a caveat.

The GT-R is more of a Z06 level car (~500hp, ~$70k)

The GT-R Spec-V will be the actual ZR-1 competitor

MSRP is a worthless comparison for these cars, you can buy a Z06 for under sticker, good luck doing that with a GTR:

Dealer markups to push GT-R pricing as high as $129,000

"Exhaustnote.com called on 15 Nissan dealers through the United States and found that the GT-R will command at least $20,000 over its window sticker. Several dealers even said they were going to handle GT-R sales like an auction, pitting prospective buyers against one another."

Not just picking on Nissan here, they have no control over dealer markups, and looking at the comments of the blog link above (dealer asking $200k!? for ZR1?), Chevrolet is going to have the same problem, but based on actual purchase price, the Z06 and GTR will not be on the same level. Why would Nissan set such a low MSRP for the GTR where they are losing money, while leaving so much room for the dealerships to jack the price up? It certainly reaks of a publicity stunt to falsely claim some unbelievable price performance achievement that was obviously never going to exist at the consumer level.

Also the VSpec isn't scheduled for US release until some time in 2010, that's a long way off. For those people made of money, ZR1's will be available this summer.

Sure it will, once the Nissan ramps up production, I don't see why not.

 

[Pariah]

Because Nissan has no plans to do it, there isn't going to be a ramp up in production.

U.S. Supply Confirmed

"We expect 2400 could be the magic number again in the second model year, and Larry Dominique, Nissan North America vice president in charge of product planning, says he thinks the first two years of production will sell out quickly.

Dominique says the plan, quite simply, is for demand to outstrip supply?Nissan produces 1000 globally a month?for five years."

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Pariah
Because Nissan has no plans to do it, there isn't going to be a ramp up in production.

U.S. Supply Confirmed

"We expect 2400 could be the magic number again in the second model year, and Larry Dominique, Nissan North America vice president in charge of product planning, says he thinks the first two years of production will sell out quickly.

Dominique says the plan, quite simply, is for demand to outstrip supply?Nissan produces 1000 globally a month?for five years."

That's a huge number of vehicles for something of this magnitude. Contrast with the ZR-1 being incredibly rare, low production number, and it's more in the vein of a Ferrari or Lambo limited edition.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Pariah
Because Nissan has no plans to do it, there isn't going to be a ramp up in production.

U.S. Supply Confirmed

"We expect 2400 could be the magic number again in the second model year, and Larry Dominique, Nissan North America vice president in charge of product planning, says he thinks the first two years of production will sell out quickly.

Dominique says the plan, quite simply, is for demand to outstrip supply?Nissan produces 1000 globally a month?for five years."

That's a huge number of vehicles for something of this magnitude. Contrast with the ZR-1 being incredibly rare, low production number, and it's more in the vein of a Ferrari or Lambo limited edition.

ZR-1 isn't rare. Yearly production is going to be over 2,000 cars. That's way too many cars to be limited at that price range. I predict MSRP or lower in 2 years or less on the ZR-1.

Also I haven't checked recently but about two month ago, the markup on GT-R from Atlanta dealers were $5k to $15k. $5k dealer sold out pretty quick in days once the word got out but $10-15k dealers still had allocations. Don't know if that's still true now. With the economy way it is, I doubt the markups have increased on the GTR.

 

[Arkaign]

Ah, yep you're right, wasn't aware that they were going to make that many ZR-1s, that's quite a lot.

But yeah, with numbers that high, on a vehicle that's already far out of reach of most, the over-MSRP situation won't last long at all. Apparently for either the ZR-1 or the GT-R.

 

[ponyo]

The timed lap was run with a rolling start, a departure from our previous practice of standing starts. This is more aligned with current industry practice.

I wonder if the Z06 time was from the standing start and not rolling start.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Naustica

The timed lap was run with a rolling start, a departure from our previous practice of standing starts. This is more aligned with current industry practice.

I wonder if the Z06 time was from the standing start and not rolling start.

I would imagine a standing start for the Z06, just looking at the time difference.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Naustica

The timed lap was run with a rolling start, a departure from our previous practice of standing starts. This is more aligned with current industry practice.

I wonder if the Z06 time was from the standing start and not rolling start.

They did a standing start for the Z06 and a flying start for the ZR1.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Pariah
Because Nissan has no plans to do it, there isn't going to be a ramp up in production.

U.S. Supply Confirmed

"We expect 2400 could be the magic number again in the second model year, and Larry Dominique, Nissan North America vice president in charge of product planning, says he thinks the first two years of production will sell out quickly.

Dominique says the plan, quite simply, is for demand to outstrip supply?Nissan produces 1000 globally a month?for five years."

That's a huge number of vehicles for something of this magnitude. Contrast with the ZR-1 being incredibly rare, low production number, and it's more in the vein of a Ferrari or Lambo limited edition.

ZR-1 isn't rare. Yearly production is going to be over 2,000 cars. That's way too many cars to be limited at that price range. I predict MSRP or lower in 2 years or less on the ZR-1.

Also I haven't checked recently but about two month ago, the markup on GT-R from Atlanta dealers were $5k to $15k. $5k dealer sold out pretty quick in days once the word got out but $10-15k dealers still had allocations. Don't know if that's still true now. With the economy way it is, I doubt the markups have increased on the GTR.

2000 annual global production is a pretty low number. By comparison, Lamborghini produced 1951 Gallardo's in 2007, after 5000 combined were made the first 3 years. That car MSRP's for twice what the ZR1 does and there is still a nine month waiting list for one in the US. With those numbers in mind, and combined with how poor car sales are right now, especially for GM dealerships, you know Chevy dealers are going to try (and likely succeed) and sell these cars with ridiculous markups. The economy may be sliding, but there are more super rich people than ever before. There was an article just the other day that there were 10 million millionaires in the world for the first time last year, and you don't need to be a millionaire to own a $100,000 car.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: Pariah

2000 annual global production is a pretty low number. By comparison, Lamborghini produced 1951 Gallardo's in 2007, after 5000 combined were made the first 3 years. That car MSRP's for twice what the ZR1 does and there is still a nine month waiting list for one in the US. With those numbers in mind, and combined with how poor car sales are right now, especially for GM dealerships, you know Chevy dealers are going to try (and likely succeed) and sell these cars with ridiculous markups. The economy may be sliding, but there are more super rich people than ever before. There was an article just the other day that there were 10 million millionaires in the world for the first time last year, and you don't need to be a millionaire to own a $100,000 car.

Yes, there are lot of rich people out there who can easily afford ZR-1 without blinking But unless you're Ferrari, it's tough market out there for $100k priced cars right now. There's only so much demand for impractical 2 seater sports car and it's a tough sell you're trying to sell $100k Chevy. ZR-1 may be special but it's still a Corvette. With Chevy flooding the market annually with 40,000 base C6 and 7,000 Z06, 2000 ZR-1 is going to be too much. I'm not saying ZR-1 won't carry massive premium initially. $50k-100k markup will be the norm. But after the "gotta be first" people have all bought, how big realistic market is there for $100K+ Corvette that looks pretty close to the base C6?

Remember the Ford GT? Originally 4,500 GTs were to be made total. They only made 4038. First year in 2004, around 550 were made. 1900 in 2005 and 1600 in 2006. That car had MSRP of $140k. Early cars were sold for much as $100k over MSRP in late 2004. By late 2005, it was selling for MSRP or less. Ford GT doesn't look anything like any other car and looks exotic. ZR-1 looks like a Corvette. Remember what happened with the initial ZR-1. History tend to repeat.

 

[Dman877]

Problem with the ZR-1 is that tuners strapping turbo's on that short block can get you 800+ bhp for less money...

 

[Pariah]

There's only so much demand for impractical 2 seater sports car and it's a tough sell you're trying to sell $100k Chevy. ZR-1 may be special but it's still a Corvette.

That's where you're wrong, and that's what sets the ZR1 apart from other cars in its performance halo. Corvette's aren't impractical, the fact you see so many of them on the road everyday tells you two things. One, they are practical enough for everyday use, and two that they can be driven everyday without fear of them blowing up after a few thousand miles. What are the odds a Lamborghini or Ferrari will make it 50-75k miles without some serious maintenance? You could not drive the Ford GT everyday, not unless you never carried more than a bag lunch with you, which means you better be a single male. The Ford GT was also $40k more and at best, equal in performance. If people were still willing to pay $140k for the car a year after release, there will be people willing to pay $120k+ for a ZR1 a year from now. The ZR1 should also sell significantly better internationally than the Ford GT did, giving it a much much larger potential customer base.

Problem with the ZR-1 is that tuners strapping turbo's on that short block can get you 800+ bhp for less money...

Excellent, now that you just voided the warranty on your $75k sports car by picking up a bargain basement turbo, how do you plan on stopping your new 800HP monster; with the stock brakes? Hope you signed the organ doner part on your driver's license. There's far more to the ZR1 (or any highend sports car) than impressive dyno graphs.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Dman877
Problem with the ZR-1 is that tuners strapping turbo's on that short block can get you 800+ bhp for less money...

Um, yeah... But then you need to get that power to the ground so you need to upgrade your tires at the very least, possibly upgrade your drivetrain to stronger components and regear because you just moved around your power band.

Then you realize your brakes can't deal with the extra power and add rotating mass, so you upgrade those. While you're at it you toss in some lighter wheels to cut down on even more rotating mass.

Going around the turns you find out the suspension doesn't allow you to attack the corners and keep up with the ZR1 so you tear that apart and upgrade it.

By the time you're done making a Z06 as fast as a ZR-1 you'll spend quite a bit more than the $25k price difference, void your warranty, and end up with a less reliable vehicle because you've just had 5 different tuners chop up your car.