[zol.com.cn] HD 7870 rumors surface better than 560ti!!

[superjim]

I would be terribly disappointed in a 6950 level of performance out of a $299 HD7870 if the leaked pricing is correct. I could just buy a HD6950 today for $210AR, or a 2GB version for $230. Even with the extra OC headroom and cooler running, if the HD7870 launches at the $300 mark and isn't around as fast as a 6970, it will be a poor value.

^this

1GB 6950 unlockable to 6970 for $90 less than a 7870. Most games today do not use more than 1GB VRAM at 1080p but 20 bucks more gets you 2GB if needbe. I expect prices to drop for the 69xx series once 78xx are more available. The 7870 better OC to the moon for $300.

 

[Concillian]

Well, the value here hinges on how they OC. If people are getting 1100+ MHz on air on the 7970, then it's quite possible these will be capable of that too, depending on the cooling. If that's the case then it's possible a 7850 OCed will outperform a 6970, which puts it at least in the range of a current 6950.

Stock they will be a little more 'meh' for sure. We're gonna have to wait for reviews to get real info. 1 more month to go. I hope it goes quick, this OCed 5770 can only last me so long =P.

ATi / AMD midrange has always been able to run similar clocks to their high end cards if you get the right voltage. Seeing the potential OCability of the 28nm cards has me more optimistic than I was last week anyway. It was nice to pick up a 4850 and OC it +20% once we figured out the VRM were the limiting factor. Maybe 7 series cards will be there too.

It'd be nicer if they were priced lower, but given my power prices, a 7850 + OC will likely still end up cheaper than a 6950 in the long run, but I'll run the numbers once these things actually hit the streets.

 

[speedy504]

in relation to the price...OMG

 

[ocre]

Well, the value here hinges on how they OC. If people are getting 1100+ MHz on air on the 7970, then it's quite possible these will be capable of that too, depending on the cooling. If that's the case then it's possible a 7850 OCed will outperform a 6970, which puts it at least in the range of a current 6950.

Stock they will be a little more 'meh' for sure. We're gonna have to wait for reviews to get real info. 1 more month to go. I hope it goes quick, this OCed 5770 can only last me so long =P.

I hope it goes quick too. Tick tock tick tock. Freakn get here already!!!!!

As far as the overclocking thing. Well that for sure applies to ppl like us, the rest of the world, maybe not. But for me, if it can overclock 20%, i am super interested!!!!

Really i am anyway. I see the 7970, but i really want to see what else is coming down the line. I bought the 5850, couldnt resist. Then the GTX460 came, and i got one of those (easily overclocked 25% btw). Now i am interested in this generations killer GPU. I have a feeling we are gonna see a much better value in the near future.....the next must have!!!! The 7970 priced at 550 isnt it for me, not yet. cant wait to see what else is coming!!!! tick tock tick tock........

 

[blastingcap]

For example: Geforce 8800GT, Geforce 9800GT, Geforce 8800GTS-512, Geforce 9800GTX, Geforce 9800GTX+, Geforce GTS 250

To be fair, they did die shrink it... not sure that counts as a physical change though.

 

[GoStumpy]

As far as price goes, when parts first come out, they are more expensive than they should be.. Then the price goes down... That way they sell the old stock to the people that don't need the brand new and don't want to pay for it, and they get to make extra $$$ on the newly produced limited stock to the people that want the newest!

Makes sense to me?

 

[superjim]

I was lucky to snag a 5870 for $380 on launch day back in Sept of 2009. I've been looking to upgrade from either camp since mid-2011. The 6000 series offered little performance for the money over the 5870 since they were mostly just tweaks to the 5000 series and nothing from NV got me excited under $300.

I thought I was crazy to spend $380 for a GPU but now that 2+ years has passed, it's proven to be a good buy. Seeing the performance of the 7970 has me worried (again) that a 78xx card won't be "enough" of a performance improvement-for-the-money over my 5870 for $300 or less. I'm trying to stay away from Crossfire as 5000 series doesn't scale as well as 6000 series and the 5870s are still going for good money on ebay. Even Ryan alluded to the performance/value ratio the 5870 provided in his review here on Anandtech.

"The Radeon HD 5870 was definitely fast, but at $379 it was a steal, which is part of the reason prices for it never stabilized at that low a level."

I will probably end up waiting for Kepler or even the 8000 series to get a $250 GPU that out-performs the 5870 by 30% or more.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I was lucky to snag a 5870 for $380 on launch day back in Sept of 2009. I've been looking to upgrade from either camp since mid-2011. The 6000 series offered little performance for the money over the 5870 since they were mostly just tweaks to the 5000 series and nothing from NV got me excited under $300.

I thought I was crazy to spend $380 for a GPU but now that 2+ years has passed, it's proven to be a good buy. Seeing the performance of the 7970 has me worried (again) that a 78xx card won't be "enough" of a performance improvement-for-the-money over my 5870 for $300 or less. I'm trying to stay away from Crossfire as 5000 series doesn't scale as well as 6000 series and the 5870s are still going for good money on ebay. Even Ryan alluded to the performance/value ratio the 5870 provided in his review here on Anandtech.

"The Radeon HD 5870 was definitely fast, but at $379 it was a steal, which is part of the reason prices for it never stabilized at that low a level."

I will probably end up waiting for Kepler or even the 8000 series to get a $250 GPU that out-performs the 5870 by 30% or more.

I'm in the same boat as you, but when I look at the performance of the 7970 I see a GPU that I won't need to upgrade for 2-3 years and then the pricetag doesn't seem as bad.

 

[exar333]

As far as price goes, when parts first come out, they are more expensive than they should be.. Then the price goes down... That way they sell the old stock to the people that don't need the brand new and don't want to pay for it, and they get to make extra $$$ on the newly produced limited stock to the people that want the newest!

Makes sense to me?

So a product that is marginally faster, that costs almost 50% more, and should be LESS expensive produce than the predecessor makes sense to you? What logic do you follow?

The fact is that the 6950 TODAY is $250, and closer to $200 AR from most places. If the 7870 is more than $269, it's over-priced. Plain and simple.

 

[Arkadrel]

So a product that is marginally faster, that costs almost 50% more, and should be LESS expensive produce than the predecessor makes sense to you? What logic do you follow?

The fact is that the 6950 TODAY is $250, and closer to $200 AR from most places. If the 7870 is more than $269, it's over-priced. Plain and simple.

The 6970 costs like 300-319$ to buy on newegg.
The 7870 is probably gonna be slightly faster than the 6970, and is rumored to cost 299$.

That means your saveing ~20$, and getting a slightly faster card, than what the 6970 offers currently.

Also... we re argueing about a card that isnt released yet, there are no reviews of it, nor do we know what price it ll have when it comes out yet (because you cant buy them yet), currently its all just rumors.

 

[superjim]

Also... we re argueing about a card that isnt released yet, there are no reviews of it, nor do we know what price it ll have when it comes out yet (because you cant buy them yet), currently its all just rumors.

You're right, it's all just rumors however we can reasonably guess the level of performance of the 7870 based on the known performance and price of the 7970 alone. Using common sense we know that the stock 7870 can't be close to the 7970 in performance. From the general, relative performance charts floating around, we know that the 7970 is ~23% faster than a 6970 at 1920x1200 res. This means that the 7870 would need to be at least as fast as the $300 6970 (link) to justify it's $300 price (assuming this is the launch price). If the 6970 proves to be faster, even by a little, you can bet that 6950s and 6970s will be flying off the shelves for their current prices.

For those of us in-the-know (most everyone on this forum) an unlocked 6950 will be the ticket for $60-90 less.

 

[Arkadrel]

You're right, it's all just rumors however we can reasonably guess the level of performance of the 7870 based on the known performance and price of the 7970 alone. Using common sense we know that the stock 7870 can't be close to the 7970 in performance. From the general, relative performance charts floating around, we know that the 7970 is ~23% faster than a 6970 at 1920x1200 res. This means that the 7870 would need to be at least as fast as the $300 6970 (link) to justify it's $300 price (assuming this is the launch price). If the 6970 proves to be faster, even by a little, you can bet that 6950s and 6970s will be flying off the shelves for their current prices.

For those of us in-the-know (most everyone on this forum) an unlocked 6950 will be the ticket for $60-90 less.

REALLY? Do we? 23%... Look below:



I think you should look at some of the newer titles, where AMD probably did more driver work, for these new cards, hopeing reviewers would test their cards with them:

Once drivers mature, more or less any game, you play the differnces will look like this:

heres BF3:

Here you see:
6970 = 42 fps
7970 = 65 fps (thats 54% more)

here you see:
6970 = 77 fps (faster than a 580 in this game)
7970 = 123 fps (thats 59% more).

Here:
6970 = 52 fps
7970 = 73 fps (thats 40% more)

Here its 45% faster.

Here the 7970 is 48% faster than the 6970.

Here the 7970 is 58% faster than the 6970.

Here the 7970 is 40% faster.

Here the 7970 is 77% faster than the 6970.

Here the 7970 is 57% faster than the 6970.

Here the 7970 is 70% faster than the 6970.





Its all about how much work, has gone into the drivers.... these cards where probably rushed out with badly optimised drivers. So in some games, they dont look impressive vs the 6970, while in others (where they did more driver work) they look alot better.

Give it a few months of driver updates, and the 79xx series will look alot better compaired to the 6970 than it does now.

So already there are games where the 7970 is 40-50% faster than the 6970, at stock speeds.
And the 7970 overclocks like a mother****er, so much so that it can end up faster than a 6990 or 590.

Same is gonna be true for the 7870.... it ll overclock like mad as well.
So 7870 faster than 6970 by tiny amount at stock... I think so, overclock it and it should be a good deal faster than the 6970.


I still think the 7870 will be right around or slightly faster than the 6970, just by looking at its spec, and assumeing the 7970 ~40% faster than the 6970, and some fast math shaders/shaders of the 7970/7870 vs performance of the 7970/6970 differnce.

 

[Blastman]

So 7870 faster than 6970 by tiny amount at stock... I think so, overclock it and it should be a good deal faster than the 6970.

This. ^

After looking at the supposed spec's I think a 7870 should match a 6970 too -- at a cheaper price.

The real value might be the 1GB version of the 7850. It only loses 10% shaders/parts and is supposed to retail at ~ $220. We could see these under $200, and they should overclock to speeds where they are as fast or faster than a 6970. For a gamer on a budget these cards could end up being amazing kickass cards for the price.

 

[Guovssohas]

I think the difference between 7970 & 7870 will be about the same than 6970 & 6870, that's about 40% ?

 

[Arkadrel]

I think the difference between 7970 & 7870 will be about the same than 6970 & 6870, that's about 40% ?

The 7870 has about:
-31% less shaders
-31% Texture units
-25% RoPs
-33% memory bandwidth
+ slighly faster GPU clocks than the 7970.


How much slower than a 7970 will that make it?
meh... maybe around 30% or something like that.

Now if you assume the 7970 is like ~40% faster than a 6970, that works out to like = ~98% of a 6970.

Factor in slightly higher clock speeds on the stock 7870, and your looking at a card thats probably vary simular to the 6970.

Throw in a month or two of driver updates, and its likely that the 7870 ends up faster than the 6970 by a few %'s.


Now take in overclocking... something the 6970 doesnt do that well, and the 7870 is by far a Superior card.

 

[Concillian]

The real value might be the 1GB version of the 7850. It only loses 10% shaders/parts and is supposed to retail at ~ $220. We could see these under $200, and they should overclock to speeds where they are as fast or faster than a 6970. For a gamer on a budget these cards could end up being amazing kickass cards for the price.

Fully agree, but I'm not sure I'll be able to wait for that 1GB version (supposedly a month after the 2GB version).

My guess is that the 7850 will be right around 6950 performance and be OCable to better than 6970 performance for around the load power consumption of a 6870. Just a guess, we'll see in a month, but that would be about "the right amount of GPU power" for 1920x gaming. It's definitely the 7850 that has me most interested.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I'm of the opinion that when overclocked the 7870 is going to be faster than or equal to a gtx580 depending on the game. I think the 7890 at stock is going to be equal to the gtx580. 7950 will be +10% of the gtx580.

Those are just opinions, but I would not be surprised if I'm correct. 7850 will be a 6970.

 

[Crap Daddy]

I'm of the opinion that when overclocked the 7870 is going to be faster than or equal to a gtx580 depending on the game. I think the 7890 at stock is going to be equal to the gtx580. 7950 will be +10% of the gtx580.

Those are just opinions, but I would not be surprised if I'm correct. 7850 will be a 6970.

The 7950 will be equal or faster than the 580 at a better price, overclocked much better. The 7870 will be in the 570, 6970 range, my opinion.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The 7950 will be equal or faster than the 580 at a better price, overclocked much better. The 7870 will be in the 570, 6970 range, my opinion.

Why on earth would AMD release a card that is 24% slower than their flagship? It will be more like 15% slower I would guess and I assume it will then be around 10% faster than the gtx580. Now bring on the overclocks and it will be much faster than a gtx580.

 

[Arkadrel]

Yeah... I see it like this:

7970 ~25-30% faster than 580
7950 ~15-20% faster than 580
7890 ~5-10% faster than 580.
7870 ~5% slower than 580 (a tiny bit faster than a 6970)
...
..
.

^ if that turns out true, the 580 will be selling for UNDER 350$, to stay competitive in performance/price.


Which is why I think its foolish to buy a 580 now, give it a month or so, and watch those prices drop like a brick.

 

[tweakboy]

i got rumor based paperwork out of asia. basically the 7870 will be a supped up hd 6930 tricked out with more ram, a die shrink, among other things. all in all the changes would make it worse than the 6970 but better than a 560ti (384 core)
that leaves the 570, 560ti(448 core) and 6950 as rough performance competitors which is a pretty healthy list.
http://vga.zol.com.cn/267/2674651.html
now take this news with a grain of salt, this info is from a site that oversells as much as its on the ball. thats all folks, rock on!

If it OCes well, then its a hit for AMD.