my god, people are still debating politics on the internet? You guys would have better luck talking to walls. Republicans=democrats are bad. Democrats=republicans are bad. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. good lord, the more you yap about it, the more time you waste. Just let the thread die, please. . .
LOL I knew Tripleshot would chicken out.
He can't even come up with one law or one bill Clinton instigated that helped the economy. Not even ONE.
And he ran away from explaining why the economy was already on its way down under Clinton.
Typical Liberal.
He can't even come up with one law or one bill Clinton instigated that helped the economy. Not even ONE.
And he ran away from explaining why the economy was already on its way down under Clinton.
Typical Liberal.
*sigh*
As part of the 1993 Economic Plan, President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on just 1.2 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers.
President Clinton signed into law the largest deficit reduction plan in history, resulting in over $600 billion in deficit reduction. The deficit is going down for 3 years in a row for the first time since Harry Truman was president.
granting permanent MFN status to China
etc. etc.
As part of the 1993 Economic Plan, President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on just 1.2 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers.
President Clinton signed into law the largest deficit reduction plan in history, resulting in over $600 billion in deficit reduction. The deficit is going down for 3 years in a row for the first time since Harry Truman was president.
granting permanent MFN status to China
etc. etc.
<< *sigh*
As part of the 1993 Economic Plan, President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on just 1.2 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers.
President Clinton signed into law the largest deficit reduction plan in history, resulting in over $600 billion in deficit reduction. The deficit is going down for 3 years in a row for the first time since Harry Truman was president.
granting permanent MFN status to China
etc. etc. >>
cool, facts. OK, lets see these people try to hand out the credit to Republicans.
as far as economy goes, greenspan has infinite more power than el presidente, as long as el presidente doesn't do anything drastic.
<<
cool, facts. OK, lets see these people try to hand out the credit to Republicans. >>
::shrug:: tex just asked for what clinton did.
At any rate, you people act like if one side wants the economy to do well, and the other side wants it to fail. Both sides want the economy to do well, its just that they each have their own ideology on how to achieve it. The political scene in the U.S. if f*cked up beyond belief, get rid of the stupid party system, and it just might do better.
<< get rid of the stupid party system, and it just might do better. >>
get rid of GREEDY LAWYERS and SILVER SPOON BOYS and let get some shrewd business minds in there. Perot may have screwed alot of things up if he would have been elected, but I bet he would have had some great ideas for the economy.
<<
get rid of GREEDY LAWYERS and SILVER SPOON BOYS and let get some shrewd business minds in there. Perot may have screwed alot of things up if he would have been elected, but I bet he would have had some great ideas for the economy. >>
Lol, we should get a diff. pres. for each area of policy.
<<
<<
get rid of GREEDY LAWYERS and SILVER SPOON BOYS and let get some shrewd business minds in there. Perot may have screwed alot of things up if he would have been elected, but I bet he would have had some great ideas for the economy. >>
Lol, we should get a diff. pres. for each area of policy. >>
not a bad idea as long as they actually get things done without bickering about every minor detail for personal gain
<< *sigh*
As part of the 1993 Economic Plan, President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on just 1.2 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers. >>
Thats nothing but a flat out Lie. Clinton is responsible for the BIGGEST tax increase on the middle class this country has ever seen.
<< President Clinton signed into law the largest deficit reduction plan in history, resulting in over $600 billion in deficit reduction. The deficit is going down for 3 years in a row for the first time since Harry Truman was president. >>
And how did he get that money? Who passed the law?
Thats right. The Republican Congress. Try again.
<< granting permanent MFN status to China >>
China HAD MFN. He didn't do anything new. All Clinton did was make it permanent after they slipped millions under the table to the DNC. But of course this is just part of the "Vast Right Winged Conspiracy" right? LOL
And please. Enlighten us all how raising taxes stimulates an economy! LOL
good god tex, its people like you that makes arguing about politics absolutely pointless. Something goes right, well its the rep. congress that passed it. Something goes wrong, its the democratic congress that screwed it up, or its the democratic president that screwed it up.
"Thats nothing but a flag out Lie. Clinton is responsible for the BIGGEST tax increase on the middle class this country has ever seen."
the GOP keeps saying that families making $36K in taxable income are paying more in income taxes due to the Clinton Deficit Reduction Plan, so let's start there and go up to the $140K limit Clinton promised. We'll use the Dan Quayle definition of a family, for his supporter's benefit (married, filing jointly) for determining the figures. Other filing catagories show corresponding savings (feel free to look them up for yourself- Rush would be proud, except it will prove Rush is a liar!):
Income Level /1992 Taxes /1993 Taxes /Difference
$36,000-36,050 /$5,433 /$5,404 /$ 29 LESS
$46,000-46,050 /$8,233 /$8,090 /$143 LESS
$56,000-56,050 /$11,033 /$10,890 /$143 LESS
$66,000-66,050 /$13,833 /$13,690 /$143 LESS
$76,000-76,050 /$16,633 /$16,490 /$143 LESS
$86,000-86,050 /$19,433 /$19,290 /$143 LESS
$99,950-100,000 /$23,743 /$23,521 /$222 LESS
So, as high as $100,000, and you are still paying LESS in taxes!
And, of course we can't forget the.....
Tax Rate Schedules, for those who earn over $100K in taxable income:
$120,000 /$29,951 /$29,729 /$222 LESS
And a drum roll, please.......................................
$140,000 /$36,151 /$35,929 /$222 LESS
Of course, we shouldn't forget the many tax cuts Clinton's plan passed. They are:
Tax Cuts On The 1040's:
Line 31- The promised Earned Income Tax Credit. The threshold for the working poor was increased from $22,700 to $23,050. It helps working poor with children stay off welfare.
Line 34- Increased standard deductions. An additional $100 per person is deducted from taxable income.
Line 36- Increased exemptions. An additional $50 per person is deducted from taxable income, and the threshold for exemption limitations was raised from $78,950 to $81,350 which helps reduce taxes from the upper-middle class.
"And how did he get that money? Who passed the law?
Thats right. The Republican Congress. Try again."
lololol. God damn tex. Everything has to be passed through congress, so pretty much anything good that Bush does now in his term can be credited to the Democratic Congress right? Thanks.
"China HAD MFN. He didn't do anything new. All Clinton did was make it permanent after they slipped millions under the table to the DNC. But of course this is just part of the "Vast Right Winged Conspiracy" right? LOL"
Permanent MFN status is quite important. . . its helping china's admission into the WTO, not to mention it saves us the hassle of having to debate it every year.
Tex, you've gota stop making everything out to be black/white republican/democrat. Both have had its shares of screw ups, and major achievements. Try to find a middle ground. . . please.
"Thats nothing but a flag out Lie. Clinton is responsible for the BIGGEST tax increase on the middle class this country has ever seen."
the GOP keeps saying that families making $36K in taxable income are paying more in income taxes due to the Clinton Deficit Reduction Plan, so let's start there and go up to the $140K limit Clinton promised. We'll use the Dan Quayle definition of a family, for his supporter's benefit (married, filing jointly) for determining the figures. Other filing catagories show corresponding savings (feel free to look them up for yourself- Rush would be proud, except it will prove Rush is a liar!):
Income Level /1992 Taxes /1993 Taxes /Difference
$36,000-36,050 /$5,433 /$5,404 /$ 29 LESS
$46,000-46,050 /$8,233 /$8,090 /$143 LESS
$56,000-56,050 /$11,033 /$10,890 /$143 LESS
$66,000-66,050 /$13,833 /$13,690 /$143 LESS
$76,000-76,050 /$16,633 /$16,490 /$143 LESS
$86,000-86,050 /$19,433 /$19,290 /$143 LESS
$99,950-100,000 /$23,743 /$23,521 /$222 LESS
So, as high as $100,000, and you are still paying LESS in taxes!
And, of course we can't forget the.....
Tax Rate Schedules, for those who earn over $100K in taxable income:
$120,000 /$29,951 /$29,729 /$222 LESS
And a drum roll, please.......................................
$140,000 /$36,151 /$35,929 /$222 LESS
Of course, we shouldn't forget the many tax cuts Clinton's plan passed. They are:
Tax Cuts On The 1040's:
Line 31- The promised Earned Income Tax Credit. The threshold for the working poor was increased from $22,700 to $23,050. It helps working poor with children stay off welfare.
Line 34- Increased standard deductions. An additional $100 per person is deducted from taxable income.
Line 36- Increased exemptions. An additional $50 per person is deducted from taxable income, and the threshold for exemption limitations was raised from $78,950 to $81,350 which helps reduce taxes from the upper-middle class.
"And how did he get that money? Who passed the law?
Thats right. The Republican Congress. Try again."
lololol. God damn tex. Everything has to be passed through congress, so pretty much anything good that Bush does now in his term can be credited to the Democratic Congress right? Thanks.
"China HAD MFN. He didn't do anything new. All Clinton did was make it permanent after they slipped millions under the table to the DNC. But of course this is just part of the "Vast Right Winged Conspiracy" right? LOL"
Permanent MFN status is quite important. . . its helping china's admission into the WTO, not to mention it saves us the hassle of having to debate it every year.
Tex, you've gota stop making everything out to be black/white republican/democrat. Both have had its shares of screw ups, and major achievements. Try to find a middle ground. . . please.
"And please. Enlighten us all how raising taxes stimulates an economy! LOL"
*sigh* well, seeing as how we've managed a few trillion dollar debt thanks to your pal ronald, we have to pay it off right? Unless of course, you're the type that likes to borrow and never pay it back... Well, going along those lines, seeing as how we were doing really well economically during clinton's presidency, it would only make sense to pay off the debt during that time. Because as I'm sure you know, having a large debt is _never_ good for an economy, it leads to all sorts of long term problems (take any econ course). SO, by raising taxes, clinton was trying to pay off the TRILLION dollar debt that WE have run up, which will in the LONG RUN (I know you like to think in the short run, but bear w/ me) make the economy better off. Interest payments on a trillion is quite a pain. Stop looking at the short term, tax hikes will affect the short term adversely, but if it pays off the debt, then the benefits in the long term will out weigh the harms in the short run significantly.
As far as for what bush is doing, cutting taxes to stimulate the economy, I'm not sure I think his plans a good idea. Cutting taxes during expansion would stimulate the economy (assuming that theres no excessive debt to be paid), but cutting them at the brink of a recession? Business are not in an expansion mode right now (as evident by the numerous lay-offs and delays in new plants), so any tax refunds they get they are going to save so that they can use it when the economy expands again. Just look at it in terms of your Joe Schmoe. You work for GE, and you see your friends getting laid off all around you, and you just got a fat 800 dollar refund check in the mail. Hmmm, do you spend this refund check now (which would help to stimulate the economy), or do you save this 800 bones because you don't know if you'll have a job in the coming months, and you need to support your wife & children? Most likely, you would save the money. And by saving the money, you're not pouring it back into the economy and stimulating it.
*sigh* well, seeing as how we've managed a few trillion dollar debt thanks to your pal ronald, we have to pay it off right? Unless of course, you're the type that likes to borrow and never pay it back... Well, going along those lines, seeing as how we were doing really well economically during clinton's presidency, it would only make sense to pay off the debt during that time. Because as I'm sure you know, having a large debt is _never_ good for an economy, it leads to all sorts of long term problems (take any econ course). SO, by raising taxes, clinton was trying to pay off the TRILLION dollar debt that WE have run up, which will in the LONG RUN (I know you like to think in the short run, but bear w/ me) make the economy better off. Interest payments on a trillion is quite a pain. Stop looking at the short term, tax hikes will affect the short term adversely, but if it pays off the debt, then the benefits in the long term will out weigh the harms in the short run significantly.
As far as for what bush is doing, cutting taxes to stimulate the economy, I'm not sure I think his plans a good idea. Cutting taxes during expansion would stimulate the economy (assuming that theres no excessive debt to be paid), but cutting them at the brink of a recession? Business are not in an expansion mode right now (as evident by the numerous lay-offs and delays in new plants), so any tax refunds they get they are going to save so that they can use it when the economy expands again. Just look at it in terms of your Joe Schmoe. You work for GE, and you see your friends getting laid off all around you, and you just got a fat 800 dollar refund check in the mail. Hmmm, do you spend this refund check now (which would help to stimulate the economy), or do you save this 800 bones because you don't know if you'll have a job in the coming months, and you need to support your wife & children? Most likely, you would save the money. And by saving the money, you're not pouring it back into the economy and stimulating it.
<< These conservatives resigned in shame. Caught on hypocricy. They resigned the way Nixon resigned >>
...Clinton should have resigned as well. Clinton broke the law. Nixon was never convicted of anything let alone the others who resigned.
<< The conservatives spent 8 years to try and impeach Clinton, and will spend another 80 years trying to justify it. History has never been kind to witchhunters and hypocrites. >>
No, they spent 8 years trying to get him to obey the laws everyone else must obey.
<< Dubya cost the Republicans the senate. What's your point? >>
How do you figure? Clinon won the Whitehouse in '92...Republicans get Senate for the first time in over 20 years in '94! Before Gore lost it was thought impossible for the incumbent party to lose an election with a good economy. Clinton was to blame not Gore.
<< The economy was a result of conservative policies? Prove it. Was it just waiting for Clinton to show up during Reagan's and Bush's term? >>
Look at any graph of the stockmarket. It shows a distinct risw upon the Republicans getting control of both houses. I've covered the Reagan yeras a hundred times in different posts as have others...The economy was rebounding a full year before Bush lost to Clinton.
<< The right-wingers want to boil down the whole Clinton presidency to Monica Lewinsky. >>
Wrong! He was in deep do do long before Lewinsky. That just brought it to a head. Purgery, court ordered documents disappearing...turning up again a year later. RAPE! Clinton lied to the public and even his own staff and cabinet members.
<< But it just isn't flying, because people remember the 8 years of prosperity that we enjoyed with him in office. >>
Again evidence of a failed Public School System. They do not teach how government works. People ALWAYS think of the President as the responsible party....He gets the credit and the blame for anything wrong.
AND to finish, the 1993 budget contained the largest tax increase in history! Dollar wise, but not percentage wise. To say he only raised taxes on the rich is idiotic and shows zero understanding of how business works.
"No, they spent 8 years trying to get him to obey the laws everyone else must obey."
heh, it was actually like the last few years only. =\
"AND to finish, the 1993 budget contained the largest tax increase in history! Dollar wise, but not percentage wise. To say he only raised taxes on the rich is idiotic and shows zero understanding of how business works."
dude, we have quite a large debt that needs to be paid off. Raising taxes when times are good to generate $$$ to pay off the debt is _not_ a bad thing. please understand that.
heh, it was actually like the last few years only. =\
"AND to finish, the 1993 budget contained the largest tax increase in history! Dollar wise, but not percentage wise. To say he only raised taxes on the rich is idiotic and shows zero understanding of how business works."
dude, we have quite a large debt that needs to be paid off. Raising taxes when times are good to generate $$$ to pay off the debt is _not_ a bad thing. please understand that.
<< ridicule for the debacles (the duck/cover maneuver on 9/11 and the subsequent transparent attempts to deny it was a duck/cover). >>
Actually, nobody has tried to deny it was duck and cover. The REAL issue is:
Is it wise for a president to fly from Florida directly to Washington, D.C. then waltz across the White House lawn and into the White House when terrorists are crashing airliners into Washington D.C. government targets and one of the intended targets could very well be the White House?
Critics of what Bush did are REALLY just using euphamisms for "Yeah, we wish Bush would have went back to the White House just before it got pummeled by a 767."
Does it matter?? We have Bush in the White House and is leading us through this now. Worrying about something that might never happen is like paying interest on money you don't have.
BTW, I'm a liberal so don't flame me.
BTW, I'm a liberal so don't flame me.
<< These conservatives resigned in shame. Caught on hypocricy. They resigned the way Nixon resigned
...Clinton should have resigned as well. Clinton broke the law. Nixon was never convicted of anything let alone the others who resigned.
>>
Clinton was never convicted of anything.
<< The conservatives spent 8 years to try and impeach Clinton, and will spend another 80 years trying to justify it. History has never been kind to witchhunters and hypocrites.
No, they spent 8 years trying to get him to obey the laws everyone else must obey.
>>
Everyone except conservatives, you mean.
<< Dubya cost the Republicans the senate. What's your point?
How do you figure? Clinon won the Whitehouse in '92...Republicans get Senate for the first time in over 20 years in '94! Before Gore lost it was thought impossible for the incumbent party to lose an election with a good economy. Clinton was to blame not Gore.
>>
Gore did not run on the Clinton economy. He wanted to be "his own man"
What point is a good economy if you don't run on it.
<< The economy was a result of conservative policies? Prove it. Was it just waiting for Clinton to show up during Reagan's and Bush's term?
Look at any graph of the stockmarket. It shows a distinct risw upon the Republicans getting control of both houses. I've covered the Reagan yeras a hundred times in different posts as have others...The economy was rebounding a full year before Bush lost to Clinton.
>>
Reaganomics is a pipe dream. First you claim that the economy was years in the making. Then you say it started with republicans taking the house.
Which one is it?
<< The right-wingers want to boil down the whole Clinton presidency to Monica Lewinsky.
Wrong! He was in deep do do long before Lewinsky. That just brought it to a head. Purgery, court ordered documents disappearing...turning up again a year later. RAPE! Clinton lied to the public and even his own staff and cabinet members.
>>
Well, bring some evidence. Innocent until proven guilty. Clinton was never convicted of anything. There has been plenty of wink wink nod nod, and innuendo, but no hard facts.
And the only ones who got raped are the republicans who tried to mess with Clinton. Bye bye Gingrich. Bye bye Livingston.
<< But it just isn't flying, because people remember the 8 years of prosperity that we enjoyed with him in office.
Again evidence of a failed Public School System. They do not teach how government works. People ALWAYS think of the President as the responsible party....He gets the credit and the blame for anything wrong.
>>
Well, you were trying to give Reagan credit for the economy. So you are willing to give him credit, but only willing to blame Clinton.
<<
AND to finish, the 1993 budget contained the largest tax increase in history! Dollar wise, but not percentage wise. To say he only raised taxes on the rich is idiotic and shows zero understanding of how business works. >>
Well, maybe if the republicans knew more about how business works, some great economic prosperity would happend during their years.
There is more to economics than supply-side Reaganomics.
<< *sigh*
As part of the 1993 Economic Plan, President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on just 1.2 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers.
President Clinton signed into law the largest deficit reduction plan in history, resulting in over $600 billion in deficit reduction. The deficit is going down for 3 years in a row for the first time since Harry Truman was president.
granting permanent MFN status to China
etc. etc. >>
Since when are Republicans agianst Tax cuts for anybody ?
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