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Zhaoxin's ZX-F/KX-7000/KH-40000

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Kosusko

Member
Nov 10, 2019
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It's my hobby. Not eryone needs super cars like Ferrari, Buggati, etc.
Why should I buy old used processors? We have a proverb.
We are not rich enough to buy cheap things.
 
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SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
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looking at the CB R20 single thread score... it's pretty far even from a Core 2 Duo at the same clock (considering I got 168 at 2.5GHz with a Xeon LGA 771 and the KX-U6780a gets 121 at 2.7GHz)

if it was a low power CPU you could kind of forgive it, but with a 70W TDP, there is a long way to go.

still it's interesting to watch their progress.
 

JasonLD

Senior member
Aug 22, 2017
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I give them E for Effort for sure. But I literally see zero reasons why I should recommend KX-6780a over any Intel or AMD products in 2020.
I mean, it is interesting to watch their progress, but looking at where they stand right now, they are at least decade behind.

I have VIA / Centaur processor and they are enough me for my daily office work, multimedia. Why wouldn't I buy a Zhaoxin / Centaur processor if it would be more powerful than my VIA Processor. This is called competition and especially free choice.
Sounds more like a patriotic move than a common sense, but hey, you are free to pick what you like and support your local tech. Just don't expect people to be jumping on your bandwagon.
 
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teejee

Senior member
Jul 4, 2013
345
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If its enough for you fine, but I fail to see why you keep pushing it here, when its its NOT fine for the rest of the world. And it has no competition. You can buy older AMD/Intel processors for $5 on ebay. And they are still faster.
It is an alterntive x86 processor, it is interesting to many CPU enthusiast to follow the progress.
It is clearly a subject that fits into this forum.
And Anandtech at least plans to review it.
 

Kosusko

Member
Nov 10, 2019
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Sounds more like a patriotic move than a common sense, but hey, you are free to pick what you like and support your local tech. Just don't expect people to be jumping on your bandwagon.
AMD in the days of AMD FX processors sounded more like a patriotic move?
If yes, then it is my patriotic movement of Centaur Technology, Austin, TX, US (design of zhaoxin processors) and support your local tech.
Slovak Tachyum should be my patriotic movement.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,637
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AMD in the days of AMD FX processors sounded more like a patriotic move?
Patriotic for whom? Germany? The UAE?

Can we leave jingoism out of this discussion? Those CPUs are bad even for people in the Chinese market. If I were stuck looking for discount PCs in China, I would either look at the cheapest AMD or Intel PC I could get (you CAN buy that stuff there) or start looking at ARM options like the new Kunpeng board. Some emulation required, but man those Zhaoxin CPUs are looking bad.
 
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Kosusko

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Nov 10, 2019
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Additional support for partner CPU detection applications of new generation VIA/Centaur CNS processors

08/13/2020 Version 3.80 of the ASTRA32 has been released
Added detection of Microcode Revision for AMD and VIA processors
Added preliminary support of VIA Centaur CNS family processors
source:


Upcoming change Version 6.xx of the HWiNFO64 will by release
Improved support of VIA CNS.
source:
 
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killster1

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
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The only thing that matters is that they replace Intel and AMD processors.
I agree more competition is good and interesting, nothing to be angry about. Thanks for the posts, what I would be worried about most is chineese spies uehehe but I don't do much exciting things to be spied on.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
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I agree more competition is good and interesting, nothing to be angry about. Thanks for the posts, what I would be worried about most is chineese spies uehehe but I don't do much exciting things to be spied on.
I think the point is just the opposite. It's an alternate x86 choice without the current backdoors, meant for government computers in China. This might make them more secure to international hacking attempts. It will at least take significant resources from anyone desiring to find vulnerabilities of these new chips to research vulnerabilities.

Most productivity applications do not take a huge amount of CPU resources. As a first gen produdct, i think they will do the job, even though performance isn't anything to write home about.

I wonder if it will end up being a more secure route, vs say Piledriver CPUs and APUs (which are the last gen without the "security" coprocessors introduced afterwards (Kaveri and newer).
 
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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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I think the point is just the opposite. It's an alternate x86 choice without the current backdoors, meant for government computers in China. This might make them more secure to international hacking attempts. It will at least take significant resources from anyone desiring to find vulnerabilities of these new chips to research vulnerabilities.
The abysmal performance is a feature to slow down the hackers?

Who'd hack a dog anyways?
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
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I think the point is just the opposite. It's an alternate x86 choice without the current backdoors, meant for government computers in China. This might make them more secure to international hacking attempts. It will at least take significant resources from anyone desiring to find vulnerabilities of these new chips to research vulnerabilities.

Most productivity applications do not take a huge amount of CPU resources. As a first gen produdct, i think they will do the job, even though performance isn't anything to write home about.

I wonder if it will end up being a more secure route, vs say Piledriver CPUs and APUs (which are the last gen without the "security" coprocessors introduced afterwards (Kaveri and newer).
At the end of the day, you are choosing between Chinese backdoors and American backdoors. Both chips will be compromised. I would personally choose the American backdoors, as for all of their flaws, I trust the US government more than the Chinese Communist Party.
 

killster1

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
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At the end of the day, you are choosing between Chinese backdoors and American backdoors. Both chips will be compromised. I would personally choose the American backdoors, as for all of their flaws, I trust the US government more than the Chinese Communist Party.
you know you sound silly, they said its for Chinese government computers, you think china should choose usa designed chips over the ones they design themselves because they trust usa more then they trust themselves? lulz thanks for the laughs.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
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you know you sound silly, they said its for Chinese government computers, you think china should choose usa designed chips over the ones they design themselves because they trust usa more then they trust themselves? lulz thanks for the laughs.
No. As I said on the last page:

And I don't think anyone outside the PROC would seriously consider these chips. They are just awful compared to Intel and AMD.
It makes sense for the Chinese market, because they want Chinese backdoors instead of American ones. For literally any non-Chinese customers, it doesn't make sense.
 

Nereus77

Member
Dec 30, 2016
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I think what people are trying to say is the alternative CPU scene is a little frustrating to follow. In this case, barring an all-star dev team full of former AMD, Intel and Qualcomm engineers, Zhaoxin/VIA will probably always be behind the likes of Intel and AMD. For most of us obsessed with CPU performance and optimum efficiency this won't cut the mustard because there will always be a cheaper, more powerful and more efficient option.

Its like the alternative OS scene. I'm sure I could get by with OpenBSD as my main OS but it would be a massive pain to have to seek out alternative applications for every single task that I do on Windows 10. It would just turn me into a bitter, angsty person who has to get by at a consistent disadvantage to everybody else.

In the end I don't think I'm ready to turn into a bitter old man over my CPU choice right now...
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,637
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I think what people are trying to say is the alternative CPU scene is a little frustrating to follow. In this case, barring an all-star dev team full of former AMD, Intel and Qualcomm engineers, Zhaoxin/VIA will probably always be behind the likes of Intel and AMD.
If Zhaoxin had the same talent as the Apple design squad, they could catch up in 5-7 years in at least one general market category (server/workstation, desktop, mobile). It's clear they don't have talent on that level. Or at least they didn't 7 years ago.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
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Another review from US

So, not only is it slower than a quad core, its WAY overpriced $617 ?? I could get a 3900x motherboard and cheap memory for that !
 

ThatBuzzkiller

Golden Member
Nov 14, 2014
1,002
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It makes sense for the Chinese market, because they want Chinese backdoors instead of American ones. For literally any non-Chinese customers, it doesn't make sense.
Well it's not just for the benefit of Chinese customers. It's practically meant for all american enemies like Iran or Russia but it could also work well for other arrangements like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and most African or Southeast Asian nations ...
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,637
5,641
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They could manufacture it at SMIC and have it subsidized by the chinese government.
Possibly. SMIC has a new "not exactly 7nm" process coming that should significantly outperform their 14nm process which is, I guess, a ripoff of Samsung's 14LPE? Right now Zhaoxin is using TSMC 16nm.

It's practically meant for all american enemies like Iran or Russia but it could also work well for other arrangements like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and most African or Southeast Asian nations ...
I doubt the Saudis would waste their time on anything that slow. Plus really, if they are worried about hardware backdoors, why would they buy anything from Zhaoxin?

The Russians are pushing Elbrus. Or trying to anyway. We'll see how far that goes.
 

ThatBuzzkiller

Golden Member
Nov 14, 2014
1,002
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I doubt the Saudis would waste their time on anything that slow. Plus really, if they are worried about hardware backdoors, why would they buy anything from Zhaoxin?

The Russians are pushing Elbrus. Or trying to anyway. We'll see how far that goes.
Well, Saudi Arabia embraced Huawei for their 5G networks so there is absolutely a somewhat realistic chance of Zhaoxin gaining ground later in the decade and especially with the worsening political relationship between Saudi Arabia and America. Democrats absolutely despise Riyadh and Republicans only wanted to exploit their oil reserves but seeing as how they now have shale gas there's no point in an alliance ...

It's not just backdoors that they have to be concerned about but what if American leadership changes to Democrats and they then decide to sanction Saudi Arabia because they didn't like them very much ? It might serve to be better being at the behest of the communists rather than the Americans since the latter will meddle more in foreign politics ...

Elbrus isn't a real solution since it's not a native x86 implementation. Sooner or later Russia will have to buy into Zhaoxin because sanctions will keep preventing their citizens from acquiring American technology ...
 

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