Zhaoxin's ZX-F/KX-7000/KH-40000

NostaSeronx

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Sep 18, 2011
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#1
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amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
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#2
I think this might as well get its own discrete thread.

Refresher;
-> 7nm @ TSMC / 2020 high volume production
-> DDR5 / PCIe 4.0
-> Competitive to Zen/Dhyana (US-sources)

The new info from an interview;
Wang Weilin's 2019 goal is clear, "complete the development of the next generation of 7nm validation chips ..."
^-- Chief Engineer at Zhaoxin.

Why not 12FDX?
 

NostaSeronx

Platinum Member
Sep 18, 2011
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#3
GlobalFoundries' is limited by the state on when it wants to start Chengdu.
Also, SOITEC just recently opened an office/channel in China. //https://www.soitec.com/en/news/press-releases/soitec-announces-direct-sales-operation-in-china

With that and VIA/Zhaoxin already announcing a partnership with TSMC for ZX-E(16FF)/ZX-F(7FF). Zhaoxin using FDSOI is outside the norm, since 2017. VIA is unlikely to use because Taiwan. They have already paid the fee to use the same chips rebranded to Nano for worldwide as well.
 
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Sep 4, 2016
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#4
Competitive with Zen is a big thing
 

NostaSeronx

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Sep 18, 2011
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#6
It's also not backed up by the article- that is just Seronx.
https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/733/zhaoxin-launches-their-highest-performance-chinese-x86-chips/
"Zhaoxin has stated they intend on reaching AMD level of performance with KX-6000’s successor, KX-7000. That is, they want the KX-7000 to match the performance of Zen 2."

There is also an echo chamber for it as well, in other languages as well!
-> Zhaoxin hoopt met deze generatie in de buurt van de performance van Zen 2 te komen. // Zhaoxin hopes with this generation to come close to the performance of Zen 2.

Most recent translation; The large semiconductor industry network quoted Wang Weilin, the chief engineer of Zhaoxin, as saying that the performance of the KX-7000 is aimed at the extent of AMD in the same period, so is Zen 2 or Zen 3?
^-- Opinion piece, etc --^
 
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dark zero

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Jun 2, 2015
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#7
But where is KX6000? There are any performance scores?

Also they expected KX6000 by 2018. So KX7000 might come by 2021
 

coffeemonster

Senior member
Apr 18, 2015
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#8
funny that they would publicly target Zen2 as a performance goal when the public doesn't even know what zen2's performance will be yet. Perhaps they meant Zen+ (Ryzen 2000)?
 

NostaSeronx

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Sep 18, 2011
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#9
But where is KX6000? There are any performance scores?

Also they expected KX6000 by 2018. So KX7000 might come by 2021
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/13037999?baseline=12754288
If I remember correctly, the U before the numbers means laptop-orientated. Where Intel/AMD place the U after the numbers.
AMD Ryzen 3500U median/mean => 3682 MHz/3680 MHz
Zhaoxin Kaixian U6780A median/mean => 2669 MHz/2669 MHz

The KX-6000/KH-30000 have recently launched in 2019, but were validated back in 2018. So, if based on the KX-6000 and statements by the chief, then we should see benchmarks by the fourth quarter of 2019.
 
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amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
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#10
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/compare/13037999?baseline=12754288
If I remember correctly, the U before the numbers means laptop-orientated. Where Intel/AMD place the U after the numbers.
AMD Ryzen 3500U median/mean => 3682 MHz/3680 MHz
Zhaoxin Kaixian U6780A median/mean => 2669 MHz/2669 MHz

The KX-6000/KH-30000 have recently launched in 2019, but were validated back in 2018. So, if based on the KX-6000 and statements by the chief, then we should see benchmarks by the fourth quarter of 2019.
I would think competitive with excavator, or zen 1 at best.

Also, competitive could mean various things. piledriver 8350 was competitive with sandy i7 in various loads. It might win a few benchmarks in MT int and MT mixed, but generally would lag overall. Still, you could consider it "competive" if it would win or tie a few specific races.
 
Feb 29, 2008
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#11
8 cores vs 4, and it still is only 66%.
4 core vs 4, or 1 to 1 should scale to 33%.

I fail to see what the interest is in this, as its primarily directed at in-China use to get national and internal systems off of Western equipment.
If they try to export it, they're going to be hit with trade suits for an IP they've 'borrowed' from elsewhere since I assum VIA has limited access to x86 IP.
Unless they somehow are able to duplicate/exceed both Intel and AMD's R&D, to get to and remain competitive means copying IP.
Do that, and they aren't going to be able to export.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
523
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#12
I assum VIA has limited access to x86 IP.
Unless they somehow are able to duplicate/exceed both Intel and AMD's R&D, to get to and remain competitive means copying IP.
Do that, and they aren't going to be able to export.
Maybe I'm very wrong about this but I thought Via had full use of x86 after they acquired Cyrix. That x86 designer was the first to bring out of order superscalar to x86, with tricks like register renaming. However, thinking about it, the amd64 extensions, they may not have the rights to use those.
 
Feb 29, 2008
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#13
IIRC, Cyrix/Via has x86 IP, however that is the old stuff. I don't believe they have any right to use anything new Intel/AMD has developed after that. Thats all Intel/AMD's own IP.
If that were not true, then they would be snapping at Intel's heels using that newer IP, and since they aren't, the assumption that they aren't allowed too seems reasonable.
They are going to be playing catch-up forever and a day, unless they dump ton's of R&D dollars into copying Intel/AMD from public source data, or simply copying....
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
6,327
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#14
They are going to be playing catch-up forever and a day, unless they dump ton's of R&D dollars into copying Intel/AMD from public source data, or simply copying....
China did acquire the Zen 1 IP...
 

NostaSeronx

Platinum Member
Sep 18, 2011
2,359
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#15
The exact license agreement;
Section III.C.1 requires that Intel offer to extend the capture period in VIA’s x86 license until April 7, 2018. Section III.C.4 prohibits Intel from conditioning its offer on any other change to VIA’s x86 license. And Section III.E makes it a violation of the Decision and Order for Intel to breach its license with VIA, AMD, or NVIDIA. This extension means that Intel lacks a good-faith basis to bring patent litigation against VIA until at least April 2018, as VIA has a license to all of Intel’s intellectual property for x86-instruction-set compatible CPUs.
=> Under the license between VIA and Intel, each company gains a perpetual license to any patent reading on x86-instruction-set-compatible CPUs obtained by the other company during the capture period.

Zhaoxin has an inherited license through VIA.

///
ZX-A through ZX-C were mostly the work of Centaur, with ZX-D through ZX-F being mostly the work of Zhaoxin's research and development. Somewhere in 2017, VIA gave credit to Zhaoxin, for which I assume is for ZX-D through ZX-F cross-licensing. So far only the ZX-C/KX-5000(ZX-D) is outside of China, being displayed for Europe buyers in Ukraine in 2017.
 
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dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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#16
At last they are on Intel Core tech levels but needs a dedicated GPU in order to compete
 
Oct 27, 2006
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#17
This stuff is always fascinating. The idea of a relevant 3rd party CPU maker with x86 makes me a bit misty eyed thinking of the days when one board could run Intel, AMD, Cyrix, and maybe even VIA lol. Super 7 era was probably the most diverse mobo capability ever.

Then Intel went slot 1, AMD slot A, and we've been on a less flexible path ever since.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
4,801
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#18
Via had some presence with the C3 and C7 in the 2000s, but after ARM became so popular and Atom/AMD Bobcat and so on it was pretty much gone.

Nano looked good against the first Atom but it never had the availability/pricing to compete.
 
Feb 29, 2008
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#19
China did acquire the Zen 1 IP...
Ah wait, is that from AMD's joint partnership venture talked about last year, with THATIC.
What is their relationship with Zhaoxin that allows Zhaoxin to use any of that?

And, VIA has IP capture through 2018 only, correct?

OK, I stand corrected. VIA/Zhaoxin have closed the gap with the partnership with VIA.
And, the Chinese have gotten their hands on AMD technology through THATIC.

I think Siu made a real mistake there, penny-wise and pound foolish.
 
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