Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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Jan Olšan

Senior member
Jan 12, 2017
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Ok, seems like Zen5 is primarily for server/DC and not client then. :cry:

Would be nice if AMD went with separate client vs server dies/cores going forward, so client could make other prioritizations. Zen6 perhaps?

There is a client die - Strix Point.

It has client prioritizations (half-speed AVX-512, less SIMD register capacity, perhaps other things).

Higher performance desktop processors are too small of a market segment to afford special die, I think that is apparent if you check the revenue of client segment (which includes both laptop and desktop processors!). in Q2, the thole notebook + desktop client had total operating marging of $89 million. Barely there.

Technically there is a separate die for this subset of client too - the IO die. The limited revenue and operating margin from the product probably explains why it is on a half-speed cadence and reused over two generations. In theory they probably could afford it but the budget and the manpower cost is an opportunity cost that would prevent them from doing other stuff. Like for example the V-Cache project that in the end had utility for HPC servers AND for the gaming crowd that wants their own processor design...
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
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The real shocker for server is that Zen 5 is an actual slam dunk.
- DBs
- in memory DBs
- web server
- python/JS/php

All that's left is for someone to test a load balancer and we're set. It's basically THE chip to buy for anything cloud/general web services. Freaking 8 core Zen 5 is nibbling at 13900ks/14700ks, with the odd "destroy everything including 14900Ks" benchmark.

If I were a CP I'd just buy EPYC Zen 5 and nothing else. It may be a bust in games and in so many apps, but for web services it's obliterating any competition.

Almost sounds like AMD actually knows what they are doing after all. Their primary focus was never gaming. Except maybe in the K6 days where they had solid integer performance and focused on 3DNow!.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
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But it doesn't do awesome in games so its a complete dumpster fire release like all the techtubers told me. /s

HWUB also checked a cross section of application with similarly unimpressive results.

But if Geekbench single threaded performance is the most important thing for you, this proves it a better CPU. That's not cherry picking at all. /s
 

Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
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But it doesn't do awesome in games so its a complete dumpster fire release like all the techtubers told me. /s
lol thankfully there are alot of people on this site the predate youtube and tech tubers. Its the younger gen that follow these guys religiously and sadly they were never around to see how article heavy tech sites use to be with far more knowledge.

i'm talking prime Anandtech, HardOCP, Tech Report etc etc if you know you know.
 

misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
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592
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There is a client die - Strix Point.

It has client prioritizations (half-speed AVX-512, less SIMD register capacity, perhaps other things).
So how is the Strix Halo Zen5? Is it slimmed for a desktop/mobile CPU or it's gonna be a full fat Server (mostly useless for us normal users)?
 

misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
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592
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IO+GPU is welcomed, especially the IO part. Can it be used with LPCAMM2 memory and if not, why? I guess, i would have loved for them to be more revolutionary....
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
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lol thankfully there are alot of people on this site the predate youtube and tech tubers. Its the younger gen that follow these guys religiously and sadly they were never around to see how article heavy tech sites use to be with far more knowledge.

i'm talking prime Anandtech, HardOCP, Tech Report etc etc if you know you know.

Oh come on, you're not wrong to a degree but it is all about who your audience is. There were various tech tuber types that covered the benefits of zen5 like Level1techs. On the consumer level, zen5 is a big meh. It will probably be better all around once prices drop in 3-6 months. Gaming and general use, zen4 is better on price/perf.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
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Oh come on, you're not wrong to a degree but it is all about who your audience is. There were various tech tuber types that covered the benefits of zen5 like Level1techs. On the consumer level, zen5 is a big meh. It will probably be better all around once prices drop in 3-6 months. Gaming and general use, zen4 is better on price/perf.

Exactly.

There is nothing wrong with the CPU, but it's not a step forward for most users in generic gaming/internet/media consumption/productivity, and it's price/performance in those areas is worse.

It has some significant improvements that show up in specific niches, and those particular buyers may find value now, but most will wait for the price/performance to improve for their more generic needs.

Most of the reviews reflect that, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm a fairly generic user, so I prefer the generic gaming/internet/media/productivity tests, in reviews like HWUB, over niche reviews of esoteric Linux benchmarks from Phoronix.
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
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Exactly.

There is nothing wrong with the CPU, but it's not a step forward for most users in generic gaming/internet/media consumption/productivity, and it's price/performance in those areas is worse.

It has some significant improvements that show up in specific niches, and those particular buyers may find value now, but most will wait for the price/performance to improve for their more generic needs.

Most of the reviews reflect that, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm a fairly generic user, so I prefer the generic gaming/internet/media/productivity tests, in reviews like HWUB, over niche reviews of esoteric Linux benchmarks from Phoronix.

Most reviews called it a dumpster fire. They wanted the views for the hot take. It's a serviceable replacement, but as you said the price/perf just isn't there at this point.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
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Most reviews called it a dumpster fire. They wanted the views for the hot take. It's a serviceable replacement, but as you said the price/perf just isn't there at this point.

As is the case with any product when the price/performance is worse, or often, even only a slight improvement.

Check this forum when price/performance increases only a little bit on a NVidia card: The tar and pitchforks come out.

But it's AMD so it's defend to the death even when it gets worse price/performance.
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,992
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As is the case with any product when the price/performance is worse, or often, even only a slight improvement.

Check this forum when price/performance increases only a little bit on a NVidia card: The tar and pitchforks come out.

But it's AMD so it's defend to the death even when it gets worse price/performance.

Who is defending it to the death? Complete strawman.
 

gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
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As is the case with any product when the price/performance is worse, or often, even only a slight improvement.

Check this forum when price/performance increases only a little bit on a NVidia card: The tar and pitchforks come out.

But it's AMD so it's defend to the death even when it gets worse price/performance.
AMD isn't a monopoly. In any market. And you wonder why people treat them differently to a company with two monopolies?
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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As is the case with any product when the price/performance is worse, or often, even only a slight improvement.
This is the reason for the bad reviews, together with the uncalled claims from AMD about gaming performance. See the video below, timestamped to the relevant segment:

AMD told the media that 9700X is slightly faster than 7800X3D in gaming. AMD set the expectations, not the media. The media just ran with the claims they were given, benchmarked the CPU and saw poor value.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,701
5,432
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Here's a hot take from me: I personally believe that all CPUs post-Alder Lake are a vast freaking overkill for gaming. It's really not that relevant whether CS2 runs at 600 fps or 750.
I don't think so.

If we put competitive gaming aside, you have to turn your thinking around and say that you would as an example always want 150+ fps in your games. As long as your CPU can deliver this you are good to go and it is just a matter of lowering quality or using upscaling on your video card (or buy a faster). As game engine develops they will also use more CPU ressources, although they always have to make sure they also work on lower end hardware. So CPUs also needs to be faster, although they are not pushed in the same ways as the GPUs.
 

H T C

Senior member
Nov 7, 2018
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This is the reason for the bad reviews, together with the uncalled claims from AMD about gaming performance. See the video below, timestamped to the relevant segment:

AMD told the media that 9700X is slightly faster than 7800X3D in gaming. AMD set the expectations, not the media. The media just ran with the claims they were given, benchmarked the CPU and saw poor value.

I don't have access to the endnote of the AMD tests that claimed the 9700X to the roughly 2% faster than the 7800X3D, so i'm asking: could he be referring to the 9700X using PBO, and NOT stock?

Correct me if i'm wrong: doesn't the 9700X perform SUBSTANTIALLY better with PBO, @ the cost of efficiency, and thus MAYBE better than the 7800X3D?
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,701
5,432
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This is the reason for the bad reviews, together with the uncalled claims from AMD about gaming performance. See the video below, timestamped to the relevant segment:

AMD told the media that 9700X is slightly faster than 7800X3D in gaming. AMD set the expectations, not the media. The media just ran with the claims they were given, benchmarked the CPU and saw poor value.
Also as Do says, they should have been compared with the 7700 and 7600 which both came with a boxed cooler and quite a different MSRP.

 
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Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
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Oh come on, you're not wrong to a degree but it is all about who your audience is. There were various tech tuber types that covered the benefits of zen5 like Level1techs. On the consumer level, zen5 is a big meh. It will probably be better all around once prices drop in 3-6 months. Gaming and general use, zen4 is better on price/perf.
I'm not saying there aren't some good tech tubers there are. But if you were around 20+ years there is clearly a difference. You make a good point about the audience back then you had to be interested in this stuff and actively looking for it. Now a days youtube appeals to pretty much everyone which include non technical people.

But this maybe alittle off topic for this thread because i'm not referring specifically to Zen 5.