- Mar 3, 2017
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I don't think we will see a mixed chiplet with both types of cores in the same die, as some have talked about, but they appear to be going to mix dense and regular cores in APUs, if the rumors can be trusted. I was wondering if the dense and regular chiplets are actually made on the same process. Could they all have slightly different processes, even if it is only tweaks for that specific part? I was assuming that the dense core chiplet would be on something more like a mobile optimized process, not just a different layout on the same process.Strange. Maybe I would be the last one who would still think 'C' suffix cores are for server/datacenter only. The sources are fighting each others until these products release in the future.![]()
This to me seems unfathomably odd.The market for more than 8 cores is very small
Your reply makes me wanna speak more in anand.I don't think we will see a mixed chiplet with both types of cores in the same die, as some have talked about, but they appear to be going to mix dense and regular cores in APUs, if the rumors can be trusted. I was wondering if the dense and regular chiplets are actually made on the same process. Could they all have slightly different processes, even if it is only tweaks for that specific part? I was assuming that the dense core chiplet would be on something more like a mobile optimized process, not just a different layout on the same process.
Zen5 would enter mass production in October, release could happen during 2024H1.What are the current rumors on the launch window for different Zen 5 products?
Has there been any speculation/leaks that's more precise than the confirmed "in 2024"?. Is Strix really arriving before Granite Ridge?
It's not like games today require X set amount of cores, instead they require Y tasks to be running at the same time at certain speed to maintain set amount of fps. And beyond Y tasks, devs can't add more tasks to increase fps. A 6-core zen2 chip would surely be able to run all the tasks that the 8-core jaguar chip does, at higher speed. That's why 6 cores is the standard now.This to me seems unfathomably odd.
Given that the first 8 core console CPUs caem into play 10 years ago roughly it seems extremely off that there isn't more of a baseline around that spec by now, for gaming if nothing else - even if the 8 Jaguar cores of that generation were so weak in IPC and clock frequency.
Two caveats: Jaguar didn't have SMT. And while consoles have 8 cores for ages now, depending on gen and OS version up to two of them were reserved for the OS and all the additional system level features consoles offer. So 6 cores may well be more of a realistic baseline, and that's rather well matched in the market nowadays I think.Given that the first 8 core console CPUs caem into play 10 years ago roughly it seems extremely off that there isn't more of a baseline around that spec by now, for gaming if nothing else - even if the 8 Jaguar cores of that generation were so weak in IPC and clock frequency.
Zen 3 (desktop) and Zen 4 (desktop) launched in 2H. Zen 2 (desktop)launched in July.If AMD sticks with normal cadence then desktop parts can launch even relatively early next year. AFAIK Zen 4 was intentionally delayed to market by 1-2 quarters and AMD's "usual" target between gens is lower than 18 months.
I'm not saying this as being optimistic about an early 2024 launch, I'm merely pointing out that historical trend does not point towards a late 2024 release.
This is not the pattern you're looking for.Zen 3 (desktop) and Zen 4 (desktop) launched in 2H. Zen 2 (desktop)launched in July.
AMD only launched Zen and Zen+ earlier in the year.
Source.Dr. Ian Cutress: So far AMD’s rate of new products is on track to produce a new core almost every year. The roadmaps quite proudly showcase Zen 3 as almost ready, Zen 4 in development, and Zen 5 further out. Is this cadence sustainable?
Mark Papermaster: We’re on a 12-18 month cadence, and we believe that is sustainable. It’s what the industry demands from us.
Zen 3 (desktop) and Zen 4 (desktop) launched in 2H. Zen 2 (desktop)launched in July.
AMD only launched Zen and Zen+ earlier in the year.
Cezanne (Mobile) launched in January. As did Rembrandt (Mobile). Renoir launched in March, but IIRC was announced in January.
We likely won’t see Zen 5 desktop prior to September, especially as AMD won’t be pressured by Intel’s next refresh.
Except he was either wrong or counting mobile, which does indeed have a 12-18 month cadence.
Pat Gelsinger, is that you? 😅We are reaching a point where single thread performance is hamstrung by throwing too much into one CPU. To get great IPC you need high dollar systems loaded with a bunch or extra cores that do not benefit your gaming experience. For consumers they should focus on raw IPC in 2 or 4 cores and then throw multiple core operations on chiplets or co-processors.
Didn't see that with zen 4 mate. don't want to call amd users cheap or tyre kickers but they had the right idea. zen 4 didn't make sense for many over zen 3 unless you ere on much older hardware more than 5 years old. if zen 5 repeats on itself like zen 4 then they stand to alienate even more loyal customers.Everyone knows that gaming enthusiasts will gladly spend $$$ for marginal performance uplifts. Intel would be throwing away a large amount of profit selling a 4-core CPU with clock rate similar to their xx900K part. It's the same reason that AMD isn't offering a 7600X3D even though it would probably be just as good (or arguably better since it can selectively disable cores to get the best 6) as their other v-cache gaming chips.
Granite Ridge is just a CCD swap (on essentially the same node as Zen4), there's no reason to believe that would take 2 years to release.Except he was either wrong or counting mobile, which does indeed have a 12-18 month cadence.
Zen 2-Zen 3 was okay, Zen 3–>Zen 4 was not.
AMD’s last 3 releases have been H2. Announcements and/or have traditionally (Zen 2 and beyond) been done at Computex, which is in June.
Mobile parts are announced around CES time, which is January.
Intel‘s Arrow Lake will drop somewhere between September and December. AMD will launch either a bit before or a bit after. I suspect the release date will be determined by how competitive Zen 5 is, but don’t hold your breath for a Jan-July release for desktop.
Mobile? no idea. Logic would dictate January, but launching a new architecture on mobile first? That would be a new one for AMD. No, I suspect we will see Phoenix 2 next year and mobile Zen 5 in 2025. I could be wrong, however. It does make sense. AMD could pump out mobile hybrid CPUs to ensure they are competitive with Meteor Lake.
If I had to make a guess:
Phoenix 2 in Jan 2024 with additional skus dropping throughout the year. Possible Zen 5 preview in January.
Zen 5 announcement at/around Computex. Launch in October 2024.
I could be wrong, of course (I hope I am, I want a new toy to play with), but given the fact that AMD felt Zen 4 was “rushed”, they will likely wait for a reason to launch…we might even get a surprise refresh of certain Zen 4 chips prior.
Different node (N5 vs N4 or maybe N3). Different size CCD. Even if the differences are “minor”. Also, completely different design. It also sounds like we will be getting a new IO die.Granite Ridge is just a CCD swap (on essentially the same node as Zen4), there's no reason to believe that would take 2 years to release.


Where are you getting this from? The second slide is only about the cores.It also sounds like we will be getting a new IO die.
Zen4 isn't the problem. The problem is the platform change and cost associated. I'd upgrade to 7800X3D if there wasn't a mobo/ram upgrade mandatory.Didn't see that with zen 4 mate. don't want to call amd users cheap or tyre kickers but they had the right idea. zen 4 didn't make sense for many over zen 3 unless you ere on much older hardware more than 5 years old. if zen 5 repeats on itself like zen 4 then they stand to alienate even more loyal customers.
problem adjacent then. If the platform costs were halved tomorrow people would be whinging about ddr5 prices, which have gone down roughly 40% since am5's launch. there's always going to be those types of people out there. if zen 4 had provided 1.5 or 2x the ipc it did provide in some magical world you'd get through the use of drugs, most people would ignore the mobo costs and buy into the platform because it zoinks the hell out of intel.Zen4 isn't the problem. The problem is the platform change and cost associated. I'd upgrade to 7800X3D if there wasn't a mobo/ram upgrade mandatory.
Besides, my 5600X is just fine IMO
N5 and N4 are the same thing, give or take.Different node (N5 vs N4 or maybe N3)
Not in client, no.It also sounds like we will be getting a new IO die.
Lol I agree. I mean, contrary to a lot of people, I don't see a problem at all with zen4 performance. It is VERY good.problem adjacent then. If the platform costs were halved tomorrow people would be whinging about ddr5 prices, which have gone down roughly 40% since am5's launch. there's always going to be those types of people out there. if zen 4 had provided 1.5 or 2x the ipc it did provide in some magical world you'd get through the use of drugs, most people would ignore the mobo costs and buy into the platform because it zoinks the hell out of intel.
28% better power efficiency since the number is 22% lower power.22% higher power efficiency
The GPU is apparently updated. Guess where that lives?Where are you getting this from? The second slide is only about the cores.
Except you just said they are the same in a prior post. Hint: They aren’t. Also see the above post about N4X.AMD never used the vanilla 2020 N5, just N5p.
N5p (aka v1.1) to N4p is like 6% higher speed or twice that in power; pocket change stuff.
It's good but not for those coming from zen 3. zen 2 maybe depending on your individual needs. zen and the + sure. don't bang too hard on those intel processors. they were very good for what they were and were fantastic for low end systems or media pcs. the cost to get into am5 today is still high, not that it's great with intel which i'm not advocating for here. mobos should not be trading at prices that were what they were nearly a year ago. especially as amd plans on pushing a refreshed x670 chipset to cater to new technologies.Lol I agree. I mean, contrary to a lot of people, I don't see a problem at all with zen4 performance. It is VERY good.
It is just that not so long ago I was with a G4560,gtx1060 6G, 8G 2400 DDR4.
The upgrade to R2600X changed some things and the next upgrade to 5600X, 32G 3200 DDR4 and RX6800XT are quite good enough for me.
So, changing again is too much investment (to me) right now.
The costs with AM5 are pretty normal for a new platform. Just not the time for me.
They pretty much are.Except you just said they are the same in a prior post
AMD never even remotely touches overdrive nodes.Also see the above post about N4X.
